Sean Liska

That description had to be written by Cabana. Or at least I hope it was.

Clearly Foley misses his ECW days.

Yeah, I would say that Vince needed to believe that Ted was out to get him because it was too humbling to believe he was getting his butt kicked for a while by Verne Gagne's gofer.

Nah, the majority of the huge advance came from when Gabe was still booking and the lineup is full of Japanese guys that Gabe made deals for. Even Gabe's harshest critics should admit he did a tremendous job with the NYC market. If they could have grown elsewhere like they did in New York, ROH would be really healthy. Anyways, too early to tell anything on the new team. There seem to be two scenarios going on with ROH. One is that they're losing a ton of money and that the only way Cary could justify continuing was by making a change. The second is that Cary is OK with losing some money, but he wasn't having any fun because Gabe was such a pain and Cary had no creative input. The first scenario would likely lead to ROH not lasting much longer because I don't see a turnaround coming (although the HD-Net deal could convince Cary to lose more money for a while longer). The second scenario would allow ROH to stay alive for a while.

I think you can still get heel heat from having a guy hit a woman. It just has to be done correctly. Even those evil ECW fans were pissed when Justin Credible tombstoned Beulah since they genuinely cared about Beulah as a face and weren't fond of Credible. I was at SummerSlam and the crowd gasped when Jericho nailed HBK's wife. It worked because Jericho is a fantastic heel and Mrs HBK seemed above that type of stuff due to her not being a wrestler. For some reason I've never been too bothered by somethng like woman getting piledriven or put through a table. It's usually just so cartoonish and over the top. However, I remember really getting uneasy during a Nitro from 99 when Savage was a lead heel. They had some show end with him angrily yelling at a woman, I think Gorgeous George or Torrie, and then he started slapping her as she pleaded for mercy. That's too close to home and reminds you of actual domestic abuse type situations. And of course it can be unsettling when you're at an indy show and there are guys around you that are getting way to excited about that type of violence.

That BWT guy was just trying to rile people up. If you've ever seen his work at DVDVR or his brief tenure at TSM, you know he's pretty great troll. One thing MRV got wrong in the book is when he referred to the "Owen Voice" as a sort of secret code that lets the fans know that what they are watching is a shoot. No, the Owen Voice is what WWE announcers (and formerly WCW; I'm not so sure about TNA because I can't imagine Mike and Don not shouting for more than 10 seconds at a time) use to make the fans THINK what they're seeing is a shoot. It's used to add extra gravity to situations like Chyna's neck injury, Stacy Keibler collapsing after her mud match with chest pains, and Hogan LAYING THE SMACKDOWN ON THE ROCK'S CRIPPLED ASS NWO STYLE via a big damn truck, so that the fans will say "Oh wow, they're talking all soft like when that dude fell from the ceiling. It must be real." I've always thought the whole "Owen voice" thing was a real cheap shot. Didn't the announcers talk really quietly when they did the angle where Shawn Michaels got knocked out by Owen Hart and they played off of him getting a concussion from the marines way back in 96? Didn't Joey Styles go into a hush when Shane Douglas pulled Pitbull #1 by his halo or when Tommy Dreamer knocked a cigarette into Sandman's eye? It's natural for the announcers to be subdued when they're trying to sell something as being "extra" real. Edit: I now see that this was addressed a few pages back.

Here's the other quote from Dave I was talking about.. He's actually recapping an interview Angle did on the radio. "There is a funny story on Kurt Angle at http://www.longislandpress.com/articles/features/540/ by a reporter who clearly didn't believe his bullshit. When reporter Josh Stewart, after Angle said the Main Event Mafia would be like the NWO, and noted the NWO put a company out of business, Angle explained the difference is that the NWO people rarely went to house shows and rarely wrestled on television. Well, at least he's not making the key decisions given his understanding of what killed WCW." A little tough to decipher but Dave seems to be agreeing with the idea that the NWO put WCW out of business. Combine that with the poll question stating that the NWO only provided WCW a short-term boost, and I think he's off on this one.

The Savage-Flair angle maybe drew some crowds in the 5,000 range, which was great for the time, but it wasn't anywhere near what the company would do later. They weren't really a healthy company. Outside of that program they didn't draw anywhere. PPV wasn't anything great. The NWO was bad for WCW because it was so succesful that Bischoff got complacent? Would they have been better off not achieving success? I mentioned April of 98 to be the end of the NWO angle because it was the end of the WCW-NWO feud. When Meltzer talks about why the NWO was bad, he says its because the NWO was so dominant it made WCW look bad. He's not saying the NWO was bad because of the Hollywood-Wolfpac feud. He's saying that that the original concept of an invasion angle was ultimately bad for the company. Even if you stretch the NWO angle out to November of 98, the company was still hugely succesful then. TV ratings were still big and they were drawing insane gates. Starcade 98 was the 3rd biggest WCW PPV ever. The company really tanked when Nash got the book.

I consider the split of the NWO into the Wolfpac and Hollywood and whatever else factions to be the end of the feud. They still used the NWO names but the idea of the WCW-NWO feud that was the focus of the company for the previous 20 months was over. It's just crazy to me for Dave to marginalize the angle like that. Like WCW was this healthy and profitable company in May of 96 that got a short-term spike in business but was then shortly done in by the negative effects of the NWO angle. They went from a loss leader to a company with something like an $80 million dollar profit in 1998. They went from running small buildings in the Southeast to sellout streaks in NY and Chicago and huge dome shows for mere TV tapings. TV ratings were in the upper 4's. It's one of the most successful angles in American pro wrestling history. I hate what Nash and Hogan did to the company as much as any other self-respecting internet fan, but you have to put that aside and give credit where it's due. Dave seems to act like WCW would have been in better shape if the NWO angle never happened. The NWO angle was the best thing that could have ever happened. Bischoff just needed to maintain some control once it ran its course. I mean, I guess you can kind of blame it on the NWO if you do consider it to last until early 99. You can blame Nash beating Goldberg on the Wolfpac, and Nash laying down for Hogan on NWO Hollywood, and all the rest of the mistakes they made. What really killed their revenue streams was the egos and selfish politics backstage and Bischoff's total lack of control. I agree that the MEM angle is being horribly executed. But I'd expect nothing less from TNA.

I posted this at DVDVR and I thought I'd post it here to see what you guys think: What is with Meltzer re-writing the history of the NWO nowadays? A while ago Kurt Angle said that the MEM was like the NWO. Meltzer commented that the NWO helped put WCW out of business. He's been saying that a lot recently. Then in a new poll on his site about the MEM's impact on TNA, one option is, "Short-term boost like NWO was, but they aren't building future stars 18.1%". The NWO was short-term? Wasn't it wildly succesful for 18 months? Didn't WCW go from drawing 800 fans at the Omni to 40,000 to the Georgia Dome under the NWO angle? I know that everyone hates all the old NWO guys, but this is crazy. The NWO angle ended in April of 1998 when they split it up. 1998 was the most succesful year in WCW history. In December of 1998, 8 months after the angle ended, they did three Nitro's that drew over 30,000 fans to various domes. They drew a near million dollar gate in January of 99 at the Georgia Dome. The company tanked when Nash took over the book and drove things into the ground at the end of 98 and begining of 99. Another argument is that the NWO killed the WCW brand name, but it was strong enough to launch Goldberg in 98 and draw all those huge gates and PPV numbers. What killed WCW was the product sucking for a really long time.

I think there's more to it than that. Heyman was immediately put on the writing team when ECW died. Bischoff was never offered that. Then he was put in charge of Smackdown. Despite them having a blow-up that resulted in Heyman getting knocked out of that role, they ended up bringing him back to the writing team. Somewhere in here was the deal where Heyman was listening to a phone call he wasn't supposed to be hearing. He got booted again. Then Vince brought him back to write the first One Night Stand against Stephanie's wishes. Heyman was the guy they went to when Cornette finally snapped with OVW. Then they brought him back to the writing team yet again for the re-launch fo ECW. After six contentious months Vince and Heyman had yet another big fight which resulted in him being sent home. And after all that, they wanted him to run FCW. Vince clearly has a soft spot for the guy. But Heyman has never worked well with others and Vince is the ultimate alpha male so it's never going to work out. Vince never considered Heyman competition so I doubt it was an ego boost to have Heyman working for him. And I don't think he'd screw with Heyman for six years just for fun.

Heyman said that him and Stephanie parted on good terms. He also said that Steph offered the job of being in charge of FCW but turned it down. Meltzer confirmed that. I think there's a lot of respect between Vince and Heyman. Look at all the times Vince brought Heyman back after kicking him off the writing team. He trusted him with Lawler's job as color commentator on Heyman's first day at the job while they were building up Wrestlemania 17. He gave Lesnar to Heyman. He knew Heyman had to write One Night Stand after the writing team argued otherwise. Contrast that with how he treated Russo. He brought him back for two days in 2002 and then banished him away forever. But I also think Heyman and Vince both realize that they don't work well together and have different visions of wrestling. The only way I see Heyman back in WWE is if business completely tanks and Vince is willing to go against his instincts like he did in 96 and 97. But right now the numbers are mostly good and Vince is in a safe zone doing coservative wrestling that's combining stuff he did succesfully in the 80's and in the Attitude era. There's no reason to make things stressful for himself.

The Invasion PPV from July 2001 did something like 700,000 buys for a main event that had the Dudleys and Rhino on the "invading" team. That should give a sense of what type of money there was to be made with that angle, even without WCW's top stars. If they had booked guys like Booker and DDP correctly and really created a sense that Vince was in trouble, they could have made some serious money.

I think another reason they spaced out using all the WCW guys was because they had to wait for their contracts to expire. Vince wasn't going to buy out those massive Bischoff deals. Although if they'd done things correctly they probably could've paid for someone like Goldberg's buyout with one PPV.

From the new blog: "Randy Orton's attitude and "coolness" appeals to the 18-34 male demo who are defiant by nature just as is the 3rd generation star. I recently read where some less than bright wrestling fans misinterpreted my statement that Orton got cheered by many male fans when he defeated Batista at the Survivor Series as some sort of perverse Michael Jackson-like scenario. Have some wrestling fans with too much time on their hands simply lost their minds?" I just want to know which web sites JR visits. He often brings up some really weird complaints from online fans. And how has he never responded to one of you guys?

There's something warm and nostalgic about seeing Bischoff take pot shots at Vince. Love the line about Ace being Vince's surrogate. It's like old times.

Isn't this the same guy who rails against wrestling websites? It's ok when he writes about something he's never been a part of but no one else can do it because they don't know what they're talking about? I think he's just against web sites that get stuff wrong. He's said on his blog that the Observer is a valid source of news and has a place in the wrestling world. It sounds like the pro wrestling connection is a big hold-up to a lot of MMA fans when it comes to Lesnar. Maybe more to the hardcores than the average fans. Casual fans probably boo him more because of his antics.

I'm assuming he didn't literally mean that he heard two guys having a conversation about something and got pissed. I read it as an example of a problem he came across when he was a VP and it came from Carlito or Shelton Benjamin-type guys that get heat for not working on improving.

I'm guessing JR wants this generation of wrestlers to avoid the pitfalls that previous generations fell into. JR has talked about how he spent time in his former position encouraging guys to save and invest money. People like Christian, Jericho, Trish, Booker, and others apparently were smart with their money and were able to walk away from WWE on their own terms. That's not something that happened a lot in the past. Seems like good advice to me.

Whoops, sorry. I remember him agreeing not to use the term anymore and then getting letters because he was sarcastically making veiled references to it. Dave was a little more feisty back in the day.

Just wait until you get into the debates over Dave's use of the word "abortion" to describe bad matches.

I loved how Joey Styles called that match. He didn't have too many great moments in WWE, but you could tell he was freaking out over getting to announce a great Ric Flair PPV match. After the win, Joey said something like, "And once again, Ric Flair shows everyone why he is the greatest to ever lace up a pair of damn boots!" and delivered the line with the excitement that only a lifelong fan could have.

Double post.

I don't think Dave downgrades Hashimoto because of his physique. I've been reading Dave since the 80's and have never gotten the impression that physiques were a huge deal to him. But the man does like his fast-paced matches with lots of high spots. He always has. I love Dave but it's one of his quirks. He's always loved Vader. He loves Morishima's NOAH work where he bumps around like a pinball and does lots of cool stuff. It's why he gave the first DG ROH match five stars, or why he used to go nuts with the star ratings for X-Division matches. Hashimoto probably didn't do enough cool stuff for his liking.

Your points are true, but you should have seen some of the comments he had to sort through on his blog - people wishing him death and what not over Randy Savage not being in the HOF.