Sean Liska

Heyman could have just denied Awesome the pay day and the chance to make an impression on Vince McMahon by not booking him in a match. They didn't wrestle the type of match that Vince would like, but it was still a chance to impress on a national platform. Heck, Awesome beat Tanaka and then powerbombed a referee afterwards. He was put over as strongly as anybody on the show. I don't know if the commentary was an attempt to inject some of the real-life emotion of the old ECW into the show and create a heel in the match or if it was venting or what.

I don't think anyone believes that. Was someone in the thread indicating that the concept was created for Flair? That was in response to SLL saying, "Incidentally, does anyone know if I'm correct in my assumption that this obvious myth is a byproduct of 80's smarkdom's hatred of Hulk Hogan and love of Ric Flair?" I don't disagree with anything else you said. All Japan certainly dragged things out too long. And they got goofy in 96 with Kikuchi finally beating Fuchi years after it was time in addition to the weird timing of Kobashi winning the TC. (It was probably your Torch writing that made me understand how crazy some of Baba's booking was then) I love watching AJPW from 90-93 and seeing how desperately the crowd wanted Kobashi and Kawada to get their big wins. But if you're dragging out chases for six years, you probably are a little thin on talent.

They kept it off the Rock for a long time as well. He turned face the night after Backlash 99 and didn't win the belt until Backlash 2000. He lost it the next month, won it the month after that, held it for five months, and lost it again. He wasn't even really the focus of the promotion during his actual title reign. Jericho-HHH got more hype than Rock-Benoit going into Fully Loaded, the Angle-HHH-Stephanie storyline carried the promotion for the next few months with Rock being a guest star in the feud at SummerSlam, and then Austin's return dominated most of the rest of the year. He was a top face that was probably more effectively booked chasing than as champion- definitely a rarity from a McMahon promotion.

I think sometimes you guys are looking at things a little too cynically. "The money is in the chase" wasn't something created to make Ric Flair look good or to justify a heel's position on top (not that it can't be used for that). It's a promotional adage that goes back decades. And tons of succesful territories have used the theory. It's more of an Eddie Graham idea than an internet creation. Is it absolutely the only way to promote pro wrestling with no exceptions? Of course not - WWWF is the best example of that. They went about things the complete opposite way and were hugely succesful. But the whole idea of the NWA champion was based around guys from different territories chasing him. All Japan made great use of this psychology in the 90's - Kobashi and Kawada spent years chasing wins against guys higher up the totem poll than them. Jack Brisco chased the NWA title for years. The Von Erichs chased Flair. It's just an idea of a way to book. Not an absolute but it can work.

Cornette has admitted that he doesn't even watch WWE. Since WWE moved to PG, they've had tons of good free wrestling, have eliminated most of the really stupid stuff they used to do (Big Dick Johnson, Kiss My Ass Club, Kane setting people on fire, etc) and have focused on basic storytelling. The big problem with WWE is a lack of freshness in the main event scene more than incompetent writing.

I'd say that Bret's matches with the British Bulldog were different from his matches with Steve Austin, which were different from his matches against Owen, which were different from his Yokozuna matches, which were different from Hakushi matches, or Jean-Pierre Lafitte matches. Then again, Flair's matches in 89 with Funk were different from his Steamboat matches. I've always felt that Flair was a less formulaic worker when he was a face. It seemed like he didn't have as much of a set pattern from that position.

I think the whole "Japanese crowds are usually quiet" thing comes from people who haven't watched much Japanese wrestling from before this decade. You'd get that impression if you only watched NOAH. But early 90's All Japan crowds, for example. were often crazy.

If Cena is in the last match, wouldn't it make more sense to beat traffic and leave early rather than stare at a wall for fifteen minutes?

Meltzer and Powell have confirmed that Hogan-Cena was discussed and no one knows why talks broke down.

I'm not defending RF. I'm talking about why it may be a bad idea for Meltzer to take a stand against someone he has to cover - specifically in this industry. Look at his quote about the WWF in the early 90's turning their heads and allowing ring boys to be molested. That's right there with Feinstein. He would have to turn down advertising from them too.

As a reporter, though, would it be appropriate for Dave to demand all RF ads be blocked? He still has to theoretically cover the guy's promotions (I know he never does, but in theory he may). RF was never convicted of anything. Should Dave block all WWE ads because of the early 90's sex scandals? Should he make sure there aren't any Jimmy Snuka legends figures advertised since he may be a murderer? Should there be no advertisements for upcoming Jerry Lawler indy dates due to the rumors and allegations there? I'm with jdw on this one since Dave doesn't seem to know how to set up an e-mail address. If the internet had been around in 88, he probably wouldn't have paid enough attention to block WWC advertising after Brody's death. But in theory, you could argue that he shouldn't refuse RF advertising.

Also, wasn't Dusty known for telling promoters they didn't need to fill their one black wrestler quota when he was around - because he could draw the black fans himself?

I'm not defending Bill Watts. But one thing that can't be forgotten is that Watts tried to screw Heyman out of a huge contract during a time when he was trying to make as many cuts as possible. I forget the specifics, but it was something along the lines of trying to nail Heyman for improperly using company funds. That turned into a big mess. I even recall hearing about Watts having JR spy on Heyman to try and find a reason to void his contract. Also, Heyman takes a a shot at Hayes, and those two were rivals on the writing team. So there may be multiple motivations for some of Heyman's statements. That doesn't take away from the article, however. Heyman's mom was apparently an amazing woman so that was cool to read about. Also, big props to the Cabana picture in the ECF'nW shirt. I have an old ECW FanCam from Chicago with Cabana in the front row making faces for Gabe.

Ratings for RAW mostly settled into the low 4's during the months of May and June 2001. In the last three weeks before the Invasion PPV, RAW did a 4.6, 4.7, and 5.0. The night after Invasion did a 5.4, which indicated great interest in the show. Those numbers are right in line with pre-WM17 RAW ratings. The last RAW before WM17, the infamous last night of Nitro, only did a 4.7. They peaked the next week with a 5.7 for the Rock's return, and have been heading downhill pretty much ever since. This is from the Wrestling Information Archive.

I dunno. Austin turning babyface was big, but they gave away the turn and him destroying the entire Alliance on RAW. Why would the PPV do a Wrestlemania-level number from that?

Yeah, he seems to have the timeline on the Survivor Series one confused. It was a great promo but the feud was beyond dead at that point and the blowoff to the feud did half of what Invasion did. The Invasion buyrate is still crazy to look back at, though. They did over *700,000* buys for a show where half the main event consisted of Booker T, DDP, the Dudleys, and Rhino. That's how big the interest in WWF vs. WCW was. Imagine what something with Goldberg could have done. UFC would still be chasing that number.

Considering most of it is ragging on Vince's craziness and the WWE corporate culture, I think JR would find it pretty humorous.

I think Vince is pretty remarkably sane considering he's spent the last 30 years deeply entrenched in the wrestling bubble. That's 30 years spent surrounded by and trying to stay a step ahead of some of the finest con men in the world. 30 years spent never being able to trust anything you hear. 30 years of trying to placate and manipulate the egos of nut jobs like Warrior, HBK, Piper, Hogan, and whoever else he's interacted with. Heck, most people that are as successful as he's been in business are crazy. He's completely sane compared with certain stories you hear of corporate CEO's. Did his mom sexually abuse him? I thought it was always his step-father. Yes, he's watched over an industry littered with deaths, but I believe he's convinced that they're not his fault and are 100% the result of poor individual decisions. And I know he doesn't believe that steroids are bad for you. He wouldn't even concede that point to Congress. His family isn't *that* screwed up, all things considered. It's not like he's been isolated from Shane for decades or like Stephanie has been in and out of rehab and jail. They seem like decent enough hard-working folk that have a hard time living up to their father's expectations. His ability to forgive and forget when it comes to business is impressive. I'm not trying to say that he's the portrait of mental stability, but I do think the industry could be in much worse hands when you consider the life the guy has lived. Meltzer talks to everybody and must have heard the Savage story from a bunch of Vince's closest aides. I don't necessarily buy the story either, but I bet he's heard some interesting details from some well-placed people. I doubt he's completely lost his ability to sniff out BS.

JR said in his blog that we was flying into Stamford to do a long interview on WCW, so that makes sense now.

Yeah, especially after JJ Dillon already showed up in a WWE ring last year. Those are two people I never would have expected. Vince could be getting soft in his old age.

What? Is this common?

Agreed on the 84 tag final. I had not come across much hype for the match when I first watched it, so I was completely blown away. I actually went back and watched the match again immediately afterward, which is something I never have the patience to do.

Yeah, but I can forgive Vince for a lot of that because he's also in charge of running a huge global public company while also being responsible for five hours of first-run TV per week. He used the Flair retirement to enhance the WrestleMania brand name, to make people think PPVs are consequential, to make the Hall of Fame more special, and even to make Ric Flair more valuable to the company in certain ways. I can't see him having Flair wrestle a year later in a match that wouldn't even mean much to the bottom line. I don't think Flair would do it, either. Seems like a lot of worrying about nothing.

Has anyone said there's serious thought given to Flair wrestling at Mania? I would think that Vince is smarter than to do that.

I remember an SNME match between Davis and Steele in the summer of 87. Think there was an angle involved.