Matt D

I can't even begin to imagine a world where Brody is better than Super Porky.

As always, the background is appreciated OJ, and I completely get the frustration that Myers had been providing something that really appealed to you and he went away from that, when he didn't even need to. In some ways though, the fact that he adapted with the times, even and especially when he didn't have to, and in a way that the crowd DID respond to, and in a way that at least, I feel, he used to continue to create compelling and different feeling matches, ones that still speak to me even if they came off as disappointing to you, well, that's all the more impressive.

I'd love to see you write up some of those ten matches in the Microscope. I'd be really curious to see you pinpoint those elements. I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'd just like to understand. Stevens is a hell of a myth and I'd like to be able to believe some of it. We might have loved him for an ability to be really, really irritating and draw heat while being showy, but there's not really any evidence of that in his work. You can't even see the hints (and sometimes, far more hints) that you do in a guy that's obviously past his prime like Mick McManus. Actually, here's a good question. Is there any wrestler that anyone put in their top 50 but that we have footage of as an older man that doesn't at least show more signs of greatness than what we can see from Stevens (including Flair, who despite my critiques, still DOES). The first names that comes to mind that meets your criteria is Nick Bockwinkel. At 50 plus he was having outstanding matches with Hennig. Sorry, I worded that poorly. I meant if there was anyone in someone's 50s who DIDN'T show far, far more signs of greatness than we see from what Stevens we have, even when those people were old.

We might have loved him for an ability to be really, really irritating and draw heat while being showy, but there's not really any evidence of that in his work. You can't even see the hints (and sometimes, far more hints) that you do in a guy that's obviously past his prime like Mick McManus. Actually, here's a good question. Is there any wrestler that anyone put in their top 50 but that we have footage of as an older man that doesn't at least show more signs of greatness than what we can see from Stevens (including Flair, who despite my critiques, still DOES).

There's no evidence in his non prime footage really. If he was just an athletic spot monkey(60s version) someone might Flair might still love him in the way others love Angle.

Very curious about Stevens at 100 even.

If I went just a little higher on Condrey or if Stacey went just a little lower on Orton they would have been flipped.

I feel like I didn't do a great job of separating Rogers out and looking at his merits individually.

I was wondering about Childs having "Mr. Donnie" as his #86

Another Classics pick for people.

I am looking forward to talking about Bret (who is not in my top 10, by the way, and was never someone who had a shot at that, but that does rank high).

I think we have some more Houston footage to drop, which might help with Patera too.

We'll have to allocate time away from talking about Dibiase to do so since I know he's not on your list. EDIT: We'll have to stop playfully poking the person going to the trouble to edit our podcast at some point, granted. I mean, we won't, because our collective hubris is massive (which explains the tail end of last week), but still.

Me being high on Eadie is the world's worst surprise.

Scarlet-Left's list continues to be one of the best. Steven's DDP picture is also one of the best.

It's the only wrestling planet I could think of.

Sheamus and Buddy Landell is one of my new favorite time travelling tag teams.

There are more matches on youtube and dailymotion (GREAT and good matches even) than I could ever get to in the time I have. I have bought a few matches from BT, Jr. in the last six months, but it was mainly for a project or because I really, really wanted to see something specific. It was still very hard to rationalize them at the relatively reasonable prices they're listed at, just because I know I have other things I can watch that are just as good, just in different ways.

I hate the idea of RVD so high. I love the idea of the pictures: Super Porky squishing RVD and then Buddy celebrating about it.

You are clearly a person of surpassing taste and quality. I will wear my new avatar with pride. George gets big points from me for basically inventing the act that gave us Flair, and to a lesser extent Bockwinkel, and hence all of their imitators. Every time I see a George match I see a spot I wish someone would steal today. Plus I once saw him hit the mother of all piledrivers on some match on ESPN Classic back in the 90s I haven't been able to find since. Amazing worker who would have gotten over any place, any time. That's a pretty compelling argument in a tiny paragraph, actually. Not the sort of direction I'd go, but you pass the gauntlet.

But couldn't that understanding help shape the criteria in new and different and interesting ways? Help shape the definition of greatness? Come on, meet me half way? Just admit the possibility.

Why? Because of a narrow definition of greatness that follows from a very specific tradition? It's a question that's been worth raising throughout this process, over and over, and over again. I think it's very cool that you're reaching a point where you're very close to asking it, Parv, or at least of admitting that it's possibly worth asking.

It's more of an issue for someone with just a few opportunities for great matches, well used, and a whole lot of opportunities to show his qualities in other ways. That could rank higher than someone with many more great matches that may feel similar or not come off as challenging or who shows flaws in other ways etc. It's a complex puzzle looking at wrestlers over a career of matches where they are called upon to do so many things.

I'll watch more Titans era stuff as we go. I think that what Parv is talking about IS far more championed IN GENERAL than it was ten years ago. I don't think that people are inconsistent. I just think they haven't gotten to all footage yet. If you want to see me walking along those lines about something different you can look at the articles I wrote to go along with your podcast where I was trying to get at matches in a different sort of way.

It's been a long time since I was the high vote on any one, but there you go. I had enough to decide that Cortez was really damn good.