Matt D

I think we could have a megathread archive just trying to analyze Steph's mind.

I don't agree that the system improves (all of) these guys. It's a different style. If you prefer the WWE style to the indie style, then you are going to think they've improved. Exactly. I'm a fan of freedom myself. I do like the WWE style but I have seen it hurt wrestlers and matches over the years. On the other side of the coin, It is interesting to note that the WWE style is not exactly what it was even 10 yrs ago. For ex, some of what you see today would not have been allowed back than. The WWE has actually gotten more Japanese like/ indyish. Which goes back to what I was saying about change. I'm not sure I'd be happy if everything was in the 99 or 03 style. I'm also not really big on the Cena vs Rock video game style with and finisher stealing and what not but I think those matches are rarer now than they once were. I'm curious. Would anyone argue that Punk, for instance, isn't a much better wrestler now than he was when he first got to WWE or before?

We can't handle arguments over threads. Especially when they end up here of all notes.

Guy could have gotten both! Does DDP Induct?

I think it's amazing that after years, maybe decades of people hating the WWF/WWE and how they limit indy guys, pretty much everyone agrees that the system improves almost everyone multifold. Did the indies change, did the WWE change, or did we change?

It wasn't a bad rumble by any means. There were a lot of fun/good moments, more so than in most years, I'd say. The crowd was going to shit on anything that wasn't what they wanted. Actually, my biggest problem was the end. Reigns hits the spear, and then when he goes to throw Batista out, Batista just reverses the throw out. That was kind of goofy.

When's the last time the crowd turned on Santino?

Obviously, Rey and Batista should become a heel unit because of their resentment.

Yeah, I was going to say. There was so much going on there in that match. If he had pulled off something incredible or even passable given the situation, I would have been impressed, but it's not even the physical elements. I'm probably the biggest proponent on the board that you learn more from what a guy can do when he's 52 than when he's 32, in really how much he understands how pro wrestling works and how good a wrestler he is, but Bret had been through so much and there was so much baggage in that match. I think he mainly wanted to put his family over and give himself and the fans some closure. It's also a case where you assume a lot of the ideas behind it were Vince's and it was sort of a bloated compromise between the two of them to even get him to show up.

I do prefer handhelds to no footage at all.

Not sure where they're going with the Rhodes breakup unless Cody goes heel. Dustin eliminated him by accident, not the other way around.

Part of me thinks the WWE really does hate their fans right now. They're trying to push back mainstream for the Network launch and Mania XXX and they've got bizarro Canada crowds in every city cheering for some unmarketable goofball and trying to make the show about them instead of about the product they're trying to present. I could absolutely see them seeing it like that. Is Raw in Philly tomorrow? That'd be great.

Batista: "I leave for a few years and the fans are all god damn nerds now?"

The Beefcake build to WMIX was pretty rough.

They should have put Bryan under the Rey mask.

Boo to no Lana. if you're going to debut a guy...

Cena vs Bray is pretty much as interesting to me as anything possibly on the table for Cena except for the Taker match or something with the Real Americans. It's not all that interesting but everything else is less so. Plus, we'll get Cena vs Harper a few times and that'll be great.

In all the big matches we've seen out of Bryan, he hasn't really done the finisher stealing at all, has he?

They're just trolling the crowd with this match now, aren't they?

It's Luger vs Windham in a cage.

Can someone make an animated gif of Hacksaw's head bouncing back and forth. You know, for science.

It's been so long since someone really did a shitty "Cool heel" act that we've kind of forgotten what it looked like.

Well they have to fill three-hour Raws SOMEHOW.

It's tricky how much to take old WONs as gospel when it comes to some of this stuff. For instance, the one from 92 which had: Also had the Buzz Sawyer obit which said: Which is the damndest way to explain what happened there.

It's stupid, but they apparently taped both the Mountie over Bret and Money Inc (with Sherri) over LOD title changes, the latter despite promising LOD that the match wouldn't be taped. From a historical perspective I'd kind of like to see those.