Matt D

I'm 40 mins in and it'll be a spotty journey the rest of the way. I'm not going to either defend Neidhart or bash the Road Warriors. I'm too lazy and apathetic for the one and for the other there's an "aura" thing which really can't exist for someone who didn't start watching wrestling til 90-91. I do want to talk about the tag teams/crusierweight thing. To me that all comes back to meaningless depth. The reason why tag teams were more highly presented in Crockett was two fold. You can't overlook that Mid-Atlantic was traditionally a tag team on top territory so there were fans (and even announcers like Johnny Weaver) who bled that sort of thing. Past that though, they pushed tag teams on top more or let the tag teams interact with the top guys because they had to. Cards were more fluid. The roster was smaller. WWF would have things far more structured throughout the year while Crockett had cards that looked wildly different two nights in a row. There was a lot more need to shake things up than in the WWF.

I look forward to finding something else to harp upon.

I think the biggest problem is the number of PPVs and especially the fact that Hell in a Cell is upcoming. That said the build to Night of Champions wasn't exactly well balanced and overly smart.

The flip side is that if Bryan had the belt, he would have a legitimate claim to being the face of the WWE. It wasn't just that Orton was their handpicked champion, it was that Bryan DID NOT have the title, because that would be "bad for business."

Yes, well, I don't quite understand why he has the belt now. And I absolutely think he should have a No Way Out sort of cage match with HHH to get into the Rumble or something. I've said that before. I think the end goal has to be winning the belt in a meaningful way though.

It's not just having the belt. It's having the belt in this specific angle where the idea presented in the storyline is that Orton is the face of the WWE since he has the belt.

Do you really not see how having the belt matters? I guess I could see an argument for dovetailing this and having the belt held up with Hunter using BS to win it himself and then having that be the endgame, but I think being champion and thus "the face of WWE" is more important than pinning Hunter.

He gets revenge on HHH by being the champion and holding on to it and becoming the new face of the WWE, by proving that either A> he's what's best for business or B> that there are things that are more powerful and matter more like fighting spirit and staying true to yourself. So what if he beats him up. Bryan only wins if he changes the system.

Wrestling is always four years behind, at least. The fans are used to it. Add in the southern/conservative (socially not politically) WCW fan base and sure, why the hell not?

I'm probably just a moron for thinking the belt at Mania should be a bigger endgame than HHH in 2013-2014. Vince wasn't even the endgame for Austin.

Scott Armstrong was the official referee of the match. He took a bump towards the end but came back for the finishing sequence woozy. He made a clear fast count after Bryan hit the knee for the win. I think they're (HHH/regime, etc.) going to say Armstrong was unfit to officiate and suffered a concussion or some type of injury during his bump or something to hand the title back to Orton. What would be best if this was the start of an Armstrong/Rhodes alliance. If only Brad wasn't dead. And Road Dogg could be in the middle between his family and Hunter.

Actually, I think that's how Cody gets his job back. Even though it makes no sense timeline wise. I think the "business" Steph wants him to do is to announce the Dusty Finish himself.

I suggest everyone give up now and watch the Andre match. It was great. I'm going to watch something else instead of RVD forgetting to sell six minutes of limb work since it's his turn on offense.

Just finished the first fall and I think I made the right decision.

If Hunter had said "Really? You remember the date? Did you get it tattooed on the back of your neck?" it would have been the best trolling of the month. Anyway, Kofi's out. I'm watching the 72 Andre match.

I'm looking at this card and wondering just how long the RVD match is going to go. Are they adding Miz vs Fandango or something? It got enough time on the TV Shows this week.

It's better to be spectacular but horribly offensive than just barely technically sound but boring as heck? I think it's all a fine line.

I had to look up the card too. Obviously we haven't been watching enough to have Mr. Sorrow listen to our opinion. We've got Dolph vs Ambrose, some Divas 4-way and Del Rio vs RVD (Which I knew!). Seems like a fairly anemic card though. Edit: Yeah, what Devon said!

I know I've seen comments from you before regarding your issues with the match but would you consider that to be your worst match of 86? Worse than Piper/Mr T? Anyways, I look forward to watching this cage match again as I try to finalize my ballot. I think there is a limit to how much the well can be poisoned when you're up against every other terrible match from a year. I have it above the Buck vs Regal match certainly because that match was just put on there to punish us. I kind of want to rewatch Piper/Mr. T? Was that the boxing match? Does that even count?

I came up with a totally different notion for the Rockers vs Rose/Somers cage match. It has one segment/element that is so terrible and undermining that it poisons the entire well. It's not a math equation. It doesn't get "points" for having a really well worked heat segment. Like I said, if anything, the heat segment being so good just makes the match worse since it's squandered.

Sabu also has the Scorp matches, which are better than any series RVD ever had. And the Mikey matches which are better than any RVD series as well. Honestly RVD is the closest thing to a channel changer for me in modern wrestling. Where do you stand on Miz when he's not wrestling Cesaro?

One of my absolute favorite things about heel Andre is that he is definitely the hero of his own story, whether it's him on the way to the ring to Wrestlemania III or cutting promos before Survivor Series 87 about all the fans being excited he's going to be back in the ring or celebrating with the Brainbusters after they win the tag belts. There's such a joie de vivre to him when he's playing this role, which is amazing considering the pain he was in and the frustration he had in life that we always hear about. I'm not sure I ever actually saw that Savage match. I have to check it out. Savage's title run is a bit of a hole for me.

Oh good, now your wife can point out commentary nuances for each match that you can post. I'm sure she'll love that.

It's an issue of excess I think. With Sabu I can pretend I am watching a different sort of wrestling with different rules. It's a genre all of its own with trappings all of its own and the very laws of physics work differently. Tables are somehow magnetic. Time loops in upon itself if something doesn't work right. It's the splintered wood twilight zone of wrestling. With RVD, I just kind of see a guy who can't consistently sell for shit and likes to hit all of his stuff.