KB8

I'm not sure there's anything left to say about Casas at this point. I mean I'm about to rattle off many, many words about him right here anyway, but I don't know. It's hard to articulate just how good he was in this. How can you really do justice to his performance? As a match I thought this was amazing when I first watched it 10 years ago, and after seeing the lead-in trios a while back it feels even richer taken in context. In those trios Ultimo ran circles around him and Casas had no answer, but he did everything in his power not to let it show. He'll also never lack for confidence, so with a new day comes new opportunity and he was in high spirits to begin. Then he asked for a handshake and promptly got put on his backside. The first caida was an exceptional matwork fall and the most impressive thing was the struggle. I'm not arsed about arguing with anybody who thinks there's no struggle in lucha or that everything is rehearsed; if you like it you like it and if you don't you don't, but there was a clear sense of struggle in this and Casas was incredible during all of it. Ultimo certainly held up his end as well, and I think the way he leaned into some of the matwork you'd see more in New Japan than CMLL gave it an almost hybrid feel. It had elements of their feud up to this point, with Casas never being able to crack the code nor manage to avoid Ultimo's kicks (this time it was a spin kick that caught him flush in the face). In the segunda there's a clear shift in Casas' mentality. He's dropped falls to Ultimo in trios matches and now he's 1-0 down in a title match, so even if he doesn't lose any confidence - he's Casas and he never will - he absolutely does ramp up the surliness. He starts throwing strikes, looking Ultimo in the face before he does it, even rolling out one of his own roundhouse kicks that was just gorgeous. When he has Ultimo in a sharpshooter and Ultimo grabs the ropes, Casas shakes his head and looks at him like "will you just give up already?" He's at the end of his tether and he needs some sort of victory soon. The return to the sharpshooter made for a great build to Ultimo giving up and there was almost a sense of relief from Casas when he did. The low blow between the second and third falls was amazing and Casas' dismissiveness when questioned was perfect. He was petty and spiteful and it only fuelled his competitiveness. The tercera was truly befitting of a deciding fall in a title match and of course Casas was absolutely sensational. He turned up the nastiness even more (loved him biting Ultimo's mask while he had him in the camel clutch to pull his head back further), then bumped like a maniac for Ultimo's comeback. The dives weren't just great in isolation, they were great because they continued the theme of their feud. Casas could avoid the first attempt, but Ultimo had that scouted in turn and in the end Casas wound up in the second row...and then up the ramp...and there was nothing he could do in either instance. All of his insecurities manifesting themselves when he falls off the top rope is one of the all-time great Casas moments. You can see him contemplating it, sheepish at first before buying into his own bullshit. Then he faceplants spectacularly and there's never been anybody quite like him. A minor quibble might be the ease with which transitions were come by in the last minute or so, but it's hard to ding them too much. I don't think this a carry job by any stretch because Ultimo absolutely held up his end, but it is one of the best performances of Casas' career, in a year where he may have been at the very peak of his power, where he took a great match and elevated it to one of the best of the decade. The greatest to ever do it.

I need to get around to nominating Herodes because I really want Herodes on my list, and right now #100 feels like the Herodes spot.

I had Murdoch at number 28 in 2016 and I wouldn't be shocked if I have him top 30 again in 2026. He's probably one of my 10 favourite wrestlers ever. The comedy stuff has been mentioned a few timed already, but I pretty much always love it and find him to be genuinely funny on the regular. The match with Afa from Madison Square Garden is literally 15 minutes of Murdoch comedy stooge horse shit and it's absolutely incredible and the greatest ever example of someone making a match worth watching entirely on their own. Literally the only thing Afa brings to the table is the rock hard head trope and Murdoch uses that in about half a dozen awesome ways. I wish they gave him a run with the NWA title because he was amazing at working lengthy title matches and the 9/85 Reed match is like twelve stars. A ridiculously great 'little things' wrestler and I honestly don't think I've ever seen a Murdoch match where he doesn't do at least something cool or amusing or interesting. I also find the Meltzer criticism of him funny, not because I hate Meltzer or because I think he's talking nonsense or whatever, but more for the fact I've never seen Murdoch do the "it's Miller time!" bit and I really wish there was footage of him doing just that because I guarantee it would rule. DICK MURDOCH YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Karl Kox (All Japan, 12/9/76) w/Killer Brooks v Jose Lothario & Al Madril (Houston, 2/10/78) v Afa (WWF, 10/22/84) w/Adrian Adonis v Antonio Inoki & Tatsumi Fujinami (New Japan, 12/7/84) v The Nightmare (Mid-South, 7/14/85) v Butch Reed (Mid-South, 9/22/85) v Butch Reed (Mid-South, 10/14/85) v Ted DiBiase (Houston, 12/29/85) w/Masked Superstar v Ted DiBiase & Steve Williams (Houston, 3/14/86) v Antonio Inoki (New Japan, 6/19/86) v Dr. Death (Mid-South, 6/13/87) v Barry Windham (Mid-South, 7/11/87) w/Antonio Inoki, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Masa Saito & Seiji Sakaguchi v Tatsumi Fujinami, Nobuhiko Takada, Riki Choshu, Akira Maeda & Super Strong Machine (New Japan, 9/17/87) w/Scott Hall & Bob Orton v Antonio Inoki, Riki Choshu & Kantaro Hoshino (New Japan, 11/17/88) v Yoshiaki Fujiwara (PWFG, 5/23/96)

I had Arn at number 29 in 2016, and even if he probably slips a bit in 2026 I can't see him falling out of the top 40. One of the best midcard wrestlers ever, one of the best tag wrestlers ever, one of the best multi-man wrestlers ever, and even if I buy into him not having that one truly elite match, he had a shit ton of good-to-very-good ones where his performances were routinely great. An amazing 'little things' wrestler and the point about him shifting from comedy stooge (some GOAT-level stooging, btw) to stone cold killer is dead on the money. Arn had some of my favourite shtick ever and he's someone I'm always happy to watch, whether it's in a two-minute studio squash or a twenty-minute arena match. ARN ANDERSON YOU SHOULD WATCH: w/Ole Anderson v Rock n Roll Express (JCP World Championship Wrestling, 7/19/86) w/Tully Blanchard v Lex Luger & Barry Windham (JCP World Championship Wrestling, 4/23/88) w/Tully Blanchard v The Rockers (WWF, 1/23/89) v Great Muta (WCW Power Hour, 1/12/90) w/Barry Windham v Doom (WCW Starrcade, 12/16/90) w/Larry Zbyszko v Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat (WCW Clash of the Champions XVII, 11/19/91) v Dustin Rhodes (WCW Saturday Night, 1/4/92) w/Rick Rude, Bobby Eaton & Larry Zbyszko v Sting, Barry Windham, Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes (WCW Saturday Night, 2/22/92) v Barry Windham (WCW Saturday Night, 6/6/92) w/Terry Funk, Bunkhouse Buck & Col. Parker v Dustin Rhodes, Dusty Rhodes & The Nasty Boys (WCW Fall Brawl, 9/18/94)

Well that was a hoot. Thank you!

I had Choshu at number 30 in 2016 and that feels about right. An absurdly charismatic wrestler who parleyed that charisma into being one of the best ever at performing bursts of energy that could blow the roof off a place. Even if the point about him being best in singles matches when being led was true, his presence was almost unmatched so at worst he'd be about the best possible supporting act in history. He was routinely amazing in tags, especially as the guy coming in to either fire back against the opposition in defiance, or inflict greater misery on a wounded opponent. Might've been even better in multi-man matches as he made pretty much every single piece of involvement feel special. His list of great matches is sort of ridiculous as well and I don't much care if he had a shitty broadway with Jumbo. RIKI CHOSHU YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Tatsumi Fujinami (New Japan, 4/3/83) v Tatsumi Fujinami (New Japan, 8/4/83) w/Yoshiaki Yatsu, Animal Hamaguchi, Isamu Teranishi & Kuniaki Kobayashi v Antonio Inoki, Tatsumi Fujinami, Nobuhiako Takada, Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Kengo Kimura (New Japan, 4/19/84) v Antonio Inoki (New Japan, 8/2/84) v Genichiro Tenryu (JPW, 2/21/85) w/Yoshiaki Yatsu v Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu (All Japan, 1/28/86) v Killer Khan (All Japan, 7/31/86) v Yoshiaki Fujiwara (New Japan, 6/9/87) w/Hiroshi Saito, Kuniaki Kobayashi, Super Strong Machine & Masa Saito v Tatsumi Fujinami, Keiichi Yamada, Shiro Koshinaka, Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Kengo Kimura (New Japan, 9/12/88) v Big Van Vader (New Japan, 6/27/89) w/Shiro Koshinaka, Kensuke Sasaki, Kantaro Hoshino & Kuniaki Kobayashi v Animal Hamaguchi, Masanobu Kurisu, Hiro Saito, Tatsuhito Goto & Super Strong Machine (New Japan, 6/26/90) v Shinya Hashimoto (New Japan, 8/10/91) w/Shinya Hashimoto v Genichiro Tenryu & Takashi Ishikawa (WAR, 4/2/93) v Shinya Hashimoto (New Japan, 6/15/94) v Shinya Hashimoto (New Japan, 8/2/96)

I had Taue at number 31 in 2016 and I guess that feels about right. I don't think there's much more that can be said about Taue in the year 2021 and if there is then I'm probably not the one to say it, but he had an awesome peak and old man Taue has a bunch of super fun performances. I wish there were more All Japan matches throughout the 90s that were like those Taue/Kawada brawls from the early part of the decade. AKIRA TAUE YOU SHOULD WATCH: w/Jumbo Tsuruta v Mitsuharu Misawa & Akira Taue (All Japan, 9/30/90) v Toshiaki Kawada (All Japan, 1/15/91) v Mitsuharu Misawa (All Japan, 4/15/95) w/Toshiaki Kawada v Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama (All Japan, 12/6/96) v Yuji Nagata (NOAH, 6/6/03)

Savage was my number 32 in 2016, which feels simultaneously too high and about 30 spots too low. Re-reading this thread I'm clearly not the only one facing this dilemma with Savage, but basically he's one of a handful of wrestler where I can't separate "best" from "favourite" (though I think a large part of that is a fool's errand anyway, but I'll save that for the Eddie Guerrero thread). I don't think you can completely separate emotional investment or whatever you want to call it, no matter objective you're trying to be, and Savage draws me in emotionally in a way that very few have ever done. Interestingly enough I never really had that sort of emotional connection with Savage until about 15 years ago, by which point I was already a fully-grown manchild. I liked him growing up because he was a fucking screwball and now that I think about it most of the my childhood idols were fucking screwballs, so obviously I was going to like him. But not to the point where he was one of my five favourite wrestlers ever, so this isn't nostalgia doing all the talking. Nowadays, despite my wrestling horizons having been broadened substantially, he probably IS one of my five favourite wrestlers ever. One of the big positives for me is that, for a guy who was well documented for planning out matches to the minute detail, there were almost no Savage matches that actually felt rehearsed. I think a big part of that is because his character as a nutjob always translated, so it always FELT like he was going on instinct even if we basically know he wasn't. He's also damn near god tier when it comes to communicating hatred in a feud, whether it's against Flair in high-profile world title main events, or Crush in 1994 midcard programs. I guess he has a short peak, but I loved pretty much everything about that peak and there's enough stuff from points after it to keep me happy. I think his ceiling is probably just outside the top 25, depending on how I'm feeling on a given day, but there's almost zero chance he doesn't land in my top 50 again in 2026. RANDY SAVAGE YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Jerry Lawler (Memphis, 6/3/85) v Tito Santana (WWF, 4/21/86) v Ricky Steamboat (WWF Wrestlemania 3, 3/29/87) v Ultimate Warrior (WWF Wrestlemania 7, 3/24/91) v DDP (WCW Great American Bash, 6/15/97)

I had Windham at 33 in 2016 and I think he'll probably be about there again in 2026, if maybe a little lower. I could see the argument that he doesn't have the longevity to crack the top 30, but he has a ton of good-to-great stuff in a relatively short (by top 30 all time standards) period, and there are smatterings long after his peak where he's still really fun. One of the all-time great US tag wrestlers, either as a heel or a babyface, and has the top drawer singles matches, both as peak athletic 'next man up' who looked like the heir to the throne, as well as grizzled vet with the beer gut and dodgy goatee. He's got the awesome long matches and the awesome short matches, the technical matches and the brawls. Barry ruled. BARRY WINDHAM YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Terry Funk (Puerto Rico, 9/19/86) v Ric Flair (JCP WorldWide, 1/20/87) v Dick Murdoch (Mid-South, 7/11/87) w/Brian Pillman v Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (WCW Starrcade, 12/28/92) v Too Cold Scorpio (WCW Clash of the Champions XXIII, 6/16/93)

I had Eaton at number 34 in 2016, one spot lower than our dear elliot. He's maybe the best tag wrestler in US wrestling history and has amazing matches with like half a dozen tag partners. Him and Koko were the best Midnight Express that there never was, then he had the Condrey and Lane MX runs, then he had the Dangerous Alliance run where you could pair him with Eaton or Zbyszko or Rude or whoever the hell, and then he had the Blue Bloods stuff late into his career. An all-time great stooge, all-time great bumper, all-time great offensive wrestler, all-time great, period. His run in Georgia is also a hoot and he was already a killer TV match wrestler by 1981, so even if he maybe doesn't have an AMAZING singles run he certainly has a good one taken in its totality. BOBBY EATON YOU SHOULD WATCH: w/Sweet Brown Sugar v Dutch Mantell & King Cobra (Memphis, 7/19/82) w/Dennis Condrey v Road Warriors (JCP, 4/18/86) w/Stan Lane v The Fantastics (JCP WorldWide, 5/14/88) w/Stan Lane v Rock n Roll Express (WCW WrestleWar, 2/25/90) w/Arn Anderson, Rick Rude & Larry Zbyszko v Sting, Barry Windham, Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes (WCW Saturday Night, 2/22/92)

I had Morton at number 35 in 2016, but right now he'd probably be top 30 (maybe dead on 30). Look, it's Ricky Morton, there is pretty much nothing more that needs to be said about him and if there was then elliot covered most of it in the post directly above this one. He's an amazing tag wrestler who happened to also be an amazing singles wrestler when given the chance and he has amazing matches in both settings. I think what's also important to stress with Morton is that he was way fucking great before the RnRs run. He was very much Ricky Morton in Memphis and Houston. He has STUPID longevity with an incredible peak. He was Ricky Morton and I'd think we're all pretty well familiar with him at this stage of the game. RICKY MORTON YOU SHOULD WATCH: w/Eddie Gilbert v Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (Memphis, 9/4/81) v Nick Bockwinkel (Houston, 7/2/82) w/Tiger Conway Jr. v The Grapplers (Houston, 11/26/82) w/Robert Gibson & Hacksaw Duggan v Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd (Houston, 6/8/84) w/Robert Gibson v Dirty White Boys (Mid-South, 5/11/85) w/Robert Gibson v Ivan Koloff & Krusher Kruschev (JCP WorldWide, 7/9/85) v Ric Flair (JCP, 7/5/86) w/Robert Gibson v Rick Rude & Manny Fernandez (JCP World Championship Wrestling, 12/6/86) w/Robert Gibson v The Midnight Express (WCW WrestleWar, 2/25/90) w/Robert Gibson v Heavenly Bodies (Smokey Mountain Wrestling, 9/7/92)

I was so hoping it was Buddy Landel. So far, not in any order that they're necessarily likely to finish, I'm messing with: Casas Satanico Fujiwara Hashimoto Ishikawa Tamura Tenryu Funk Hansen Lawler

The more I watch of 1994 Cota the more he looks like an all-time level rudo shithead: http://whiskeyandwrestling.blogspot.com/2021/05/sangre-chicana-of-day-2.html I watched that for the Sangre Chicana, but Cota and Casas stole the show. Cota's ring post bump in the tercera is one of the most ridiculous ring post bumps you'll see. A wonderful performance.

I can only co-sign this. I watched it a few days ago now, but what a performance. I've actually watched another few Casas matches from that year since then, including the title match with Ultimo last night, and 1993 might be PEAK peak Casas.

Virus was my number 36 in 2016, but I think by 2021 he makes it into the top 30. Part of that is because he's had some stuff since the last poll that has been great, but also because I plan on going back to watch some of the period between 1997, where he had one of the best title matches ever and one of the best trios match ever, and 2011, where he burst back onto the scene with the Guerrero Maya Jr. match and made us all sit up and take notice. He might be my favourite mat worker in lucha history and we have footage of him working ridiculously fast, state-of-the-art ground exchanges with guys like Cicloncito Ramirez as well as slowed down maestro exchanges with Black Terry and Negro Navarro, and pretty much anything else in between. Obviously he has a laundry list of awesome title matches, often against guys who have never had as good a match against anybody else in their lives, but he's also a consistently awesome trios worker and someone over the last 10 years that I'll watch in any setting. I don't knock him for not having a grizzly brawl with blood-drinking and guys hitting reckless topes into the sixth row. He's never been in a position to do that so it's hard to ding someone for it. If he DID have a bunch of matches like that (and I guess there's time for it yet; he's still only a sprightly 52 years of age) then maybe he'd be a top 15 candidate rather than a top 30 candidate...but it is what it is (I'm also not trying to create a strawman here, because I don't think people are actively criticising him or knocking him down the list specifically because he has no wild hair matches). That said, the Fly Star match from 2019 is excellent and in the middle of it we get as close a look at bloody apuesta match Virus as we've probably ever gotten, and I can only surmise based on that portion of that one match that Virus would have been an amazing old school apuestas worker. So top 30 minimum, maybe top 20. Bailiff, take him away. VIRUS YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Cicloncito Ramirez (CMLL, 1/7/97) w/El Fierito & Pierrothito v Cicloncito Ramirez, Mascarita Magica & Bracito de Oro (CMLL, 10/3/97) v Ricky Marvin (CMLL, 12/12/00) v Guerrero Maya Jr. (CMLL, 6/7/11) v Blue Panther (CMLL, 5/12/13) v Guerrero Maya Jr. (CMLL, 10/6/13) w/Hechicero & Cachorro v Negro Casas, Barbaro Cavernario & Dragon Lee (CMLL, 5/23/14) v Dragon Lee (CMLL, 4/5/15) v Metalico (CMLL, 5/31/19) v Fly Star (Lucha Memes, 6/29/19)

I had Panther at number 37 in 2016 and I'm actually okay with that, though I could just as easily see him hitting the top 30 next time. One thing I've done more of since the last poll - not for the purposes of the next GWE or anything - is watch way more random week-to-week type lucha, like your 14-minute inconsequential trios matches from a down year that nobody has written anything about. Doing that for 2000 you get to see things like Panther going absolutely crazy and brutalising Olimpico and guzzling his blood like a vampire, which isn't the sort of thing I really associated with rudo Panther before. I actually kind of agree with a couple of the points made about him not necessarily popping off the screen when he's the third guy in a trios unit, but I've seen enough Panther over a long enough period for me to be pretty content to watch him in just about any setting regardless. The Casas hair match from 2012 isn't a 1992 apuesta, so there's no blood and the brawling is different, but it might be the match of the decade and I couldn't have asked for much more out of a modern wagers match. He has great work over four decades, he's pretty undeniable. BLUE PANTHER YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Atlantis (CMLL, 8/9/91) w/Rencor Latino v Olimpico & Mr. Niebla (CMLL, 2/1/00) v El Hijo del Santo (Monterrey, 4/9/00) v Negro Casas (CMLL, 3/2/12) v Villano V (CMLL, 9/19/08)

Martel was my number 38 in 2016, which I'm happy enough with but may have been a little too high. I don't know, I've said it a bunch of times running through my list up to this point but looking over it now, there are going to be candidates that I haven't really watched anything of in five years and so that'll factor into my 2021 thinking at least a little. Martel is one of those candidates, though I don't exactly need to re-watch a Rick Martel career retrospective to remind myself why I had him where I had him. An all-time level babyface and that's obviously where his bread is buttered. The Portland run, the AWA run, the WWF runs, he was great through all of them. Matt D has made the point about his heel run as a knock, and while I don't think I'd ding him massively for it, it is the sort of thing that keeps him from going any higher. Still, the Bockwinkel series is about as good as any match-up of the 80s and I'm ridiculously high on the 9/20/84 match, which is like top 20 of the decade for me. I don't think any of his random 90s WCW stint produced anything amazing, but it was pretty cool that he showed up there and got to have a bit of a showcase run, just to prove that he could still do it. RICK MARTEL YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Buddy Rose (Portland, 4/26/80) v Nick Bockwinkel (AWA, 9/20/84) v Jumbo Tsuruta (AWA, 9/29/85) v Terry Funk (Puerto Rico, 9/20/86) w/Tito Santana v The Islanders (WWF, 9/21/87)

I don't know anything about the context of this. No idea how long they'd been feuding, no idea why they were feuding in the first place. I guess it had been a minute since the Viboras Salvajes were a thing - I'm pretty sure Mocho Cota was in jail around this time - but from the opening here it looked like they both kept some measure of respect for one another. Even if their days of running together were over I suppose there was at least the faint remnants of kinship. Maybe that's me projecting, or maybe it's my way of rationalising a hair match starting with a handshake, but I've watched some of that 80s run recently so naturally it's fresh in the memory. I actually liked how they started with a bit of wrestling, the way they struggled over one hold that Chicana managed to keep on top of. Chicana even took a quick trip to the floor to shake hands with one of his supporters. Then it all went out the window. As soon as Fiera managed to - quite literally - wrestle away control, Chicana decided enough was enough. It was simple, but Chicana immediately going to the kidney punches looked brutal and Fiera sold it like he was about to piss blood. I thought this was an absolutely mesmerising Sangre Chicana performance. As soon as he ramped up the violence I couldn't take my eyes off him, and that's even with Fiera putting in a pretty sensational selling performance. Chicana would take his time with the beatdown, jawing with fans at ringside in between ramming Fiera into the post. I don't know if Nigel McGuinness was a lucha fan but jesus christ did La Fiera set the original bar for stupid insane unprotected ring post shots. There were at least three where he went clean into it at speed and if the ringside mic was better I assume it would've sounded like a cooked turkey hitting the pavement from a twelfth story balcony. My favourite moment of the match came at the end of the second caida, as Chicana waded into the dimly lit crowd before reappearing with a jug that he smashed over Fiera's head. It earned him a DQ, which evened up the falls, but I thought it was the perfect Sangre Chicana move. Fiera is bleeding everywhere, dead on his feet, probably has kidney trauma, so fuck it, why would Chicana be worried about giving up a fall? He's Sangre Chicana, of course he'll take that hit. Fiera's comeback in the tercera started with one of the best spin kicks he's ever thrown and I loved Chicana selling it like he'd been shot. The big Fiera tope was a fucking madness as well. He gets almost vertical coming over the top rope, which sort of hampered him hitting Chicana full in the chest as intended, but you forget that when Chicana ends up in the second row after ripping four seats out the ground in the process. Imagine being part of the arena staff the night of a Sangre Chicana apuesta match. You spend all that time securing furniture despite knowing for a fact at least some of it is going to be unusable by the end of the night. The finish was a little botched, but I thought it was great and wrapped up their seedy story nicely. Fiera had made several attempts at a backslide throughout the match, usually in response to Chicana kicking the shit out of him, but Chicana would shut him down every time with the kidney punches. They were the best kidney punches you've ever seen and they were the perfect counter to the counter. That the backslide looked ugly in the end wasn't enough for me not to love how Fiera's persistence paid off.

I'm not sure if, from 1986 on, you could've had a similar situation to what he had in 1985, where he was feuding with Nikita - as a pure babyface standing up for David Crockett, who he was in a plane crash with, after Nikita gave him the Sickle on TV - while very much not being a babyface in his ongoing beef with Magnum and Dusty. I don't even know if they could've played the America v Russia note to the same effect. After Flair and the Horsemen broke Dusty's leg there was pretty much no room for subtlety anymore.

I had Chicana at number 39 in 2016, and on the one hand that feels way too low, but on the other hand I guess I can see why I never pulled the trigger on him for the top 30. We don't have a shit ton of footage and that will forever suck. If I could wish into existence every piece of footage from any wrestler in history then my pick would be Sangre Chicana. All of that said, while the lack of footage probably paints an incomplete picture of his career, I don't for a second believe it paints an inaccurate one. He was absolutely god tier incredible and if I were ranking wrestlers based on, say, their five best performances on tape, then Chicana would probably be top 3. An unbelievable brawler and charismatic to the point of stupidity. Might've had the best timing ever on comebacks, and I don't know if even Lawler made that first big punch after being trounced for 10 minutes feel more monumental than Chicana did. An amazing seller, both as a technico and a rudo. He genuinely might've been the GOAT and 39 is too low. SANGRE CHICANA YOU SHOULD WATCH: v MS-1 (EMLL, 9/23/83) w/La Fiera & Mocho Cota v MS-1, El Satanico & Espectro Jr. (EMLL, 9/30/83) v Villano III (UWA, 12/7/84) v Perro Aguayo (EMLL, 2/28/86) v El Satanico (EMLL, 5/26/89)

I had Dustin at number 40 in 2016. That might've been a few spots too high, but he's not someone I've really thought about for a while now so maybe I've just forgotten how awesome he was. I love the WCW run. In my head I've always associated Halloween Havoc '91 and the match with Austin as the point where it kicked fully into gear for him and he was pretty much excellent for the next three and a half years before he left. In 1992 he already felt fully formed as a babyface and one of the best tag wrestlers in forever, and in 1994 with the Stud Stable feud I think you could make a decent case that he was the best wrestler in America. The Goldust run never produced a whole bunch of great matches - certainly his volume of Good Wrestling Matches dried up after leaving WCW - but the character work was always crazy fun. Feels like every time I watched him in the 2010s he was pretty great, usually in tags as once again maybe the best tag wrestler in the world (and I still haven't seen the Rhodes Brothers/Shield match from Battleground 2013). His end-days WCW run was mired in a whole bunch of hokey Russo shoot horse shit but the Funk feud was, I shit you not, the greatest thing in the history of our great sport. The Uncensored match is amazing and Funk wearing frozen chickens on his hands as boxing gloves is one of the defining moments of the era but then I suppose I'll save that for when I get to the Funk thread. I may be a low voter on the Cody match in AEW, but I still thought it was really good and definitely something that bolsters his case. Plus every candidate needs a proper old man/woman performance to really round out their candidacy! Prolly. DUSTIN RHODES YOU SHOULD WATCH: w/Ricky Steamboat v Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko (WCW Clash of the Champions XVII, 11/19/91) w/Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff v Arn Anderson, Larry Zbyszko & Bobby Eaton (WCW Saturday Night, 5/23/92) v Bunkhouse Buck (WCW Spring Stampede, 4/17/94) v Vader (WCW Clash of the Champions XXIX, 11/16/94) v Cody Rhodes (AEW Double of Nothing, 5/25/19)

Is the Virus match online? I never did get around to watching it. I actually should've put the Hashimoto match from '94 on the rec list, probably ahead of the second juniors tag. I should watch it again at some point as well.

Vader was my number 41 in 2016 and I'd guess he'll be about there again next time. He was my highest ranked superheavyweight and I wouldn't imagine that'll change either. I suppose his peak was relatively short, but it was a hell of a peak and he was good for lot longer than those 3-4 years anyway. Obviously one of the greatest bulldozers ever, and while some are down on the bumping, even if he maybe did go overboard at times I'm very rarely bothered by it. VADER YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Shinya Hashimoto (New Japan, 4/24/89) v Keiji Mutoh (New Japan, 8/10/91) v Sting (WCW Starrcade, 12/28/92) v Sting (WCW Superbrawl, 2/21/93) v Kiyoshi Tamura (UWFi, 6/10/94)

I had Liger at number 42 in 2016, which is probably too low, but I think he suffered from a couple things going into the last vote. One was that I hadn't really watched any Liger in years. The other was that I was sort of bored of him, probably because he was the very first wrestler from Japan I started properly watching back when I began seeking out footage. I'd deep dived Liger before I even knew who Kiyoshi Tamura or Yoshiaki Fujiwara were. I'd declared Liger the best ever before I knew the English for El Hijo del Santo. It's not exactly fair to Liger, but it is what it is. It's sort of difficult to get excited about revisiting stuff you loved in the past but then soured on. That said, I've watched more Liger again over the last couple years than I had in a while (despite saying in this thread before the last deadline that I want to revisit a bunch of Liger) and he was pretty fucking good, guys. I also think that the things I was annoyed by in 90s junior heavyweight wrestling at large don't really bother me as much anymore, so if I went back to that stuff he probably comes out moving up the list. I don't see him dropping out the top half either way; it's probably more a question of whether he lands at 42 or 32...or maybe 22. Ah who the hell knows. JUSHIN LIGER YOU SHOULD WATCH: v Naoki Sano (New Japan, 8/10/89) v Great Sasuke (New Japan, 4/16/94) v Koji Kanemoto (New Japan, 2/16/97) w/Wataro Inoue v Tsuyoshi Kikuchi & Yoshinobu Kanemaru (NOAH, 2/17/02) w/Minoru Tanaka v Tsuyoshi Kikuchi & Yoshinobu Kanemaru (New Japan, 8/29/02)

I had Togo at 43 in 2016 and I'm happy enough with that. I don't think I've seen any Togo since the last deadline though, so there's bound to be stuff since then (and stuff from before that I missed) to watch. Obviously an amazing portly flier and almost certainly the best lucharesu-type (or whatever you want to call it) wrestler ever, but the first retirement run showed him in a completely different light and he was every bit as good. Tags, multi-mans, singles, he has stone cold classics in all of them. DICK TOGO YOU SHOULD WATCH: w/Great Sasuke & Shiryu v Super Delfin, Gran Naniwa & Jinsei Shinzaki (M-Pro, 2/4/94) v Jushin Liger (New Japan, 6/17/96) w/Taka Michinoku, Mens Teioh, Shoichi Funaki & Shiryu v Great Sasuke, Gran Hamada, Super Delfin, Gran Naniwa & Masato Yakushiji (M-Pro, 12/16/96) w/Taka Michinoku, Mens Teoh, Masayoshi Motegi & Shoichi Funaki v Great Sasuke, Super Delphin, Gran Naniwa, Gran Hamada & Masato Yakushiji (M-Pro, 3/16/97) v Antonio Honda (DDT, 1/30/11)