I love differing views

[JHawk]

I love my feedback, I really do.

 

Got two pieces of completely differing feedback on my rant on why they shouldn't push Triple H. For those of you who missed it, here's the snippet:

 

Look, I'm going to give WWE the perfect example of why Triple H needs to be depushed right now (and not just because of the "boring" chants during the promo). My co-workers are casual fans. They don't read the sheets, they don't chat on internet message boards, but they know what they do and don't like. And every single one of them came up to me last week and asked me the same question: "Why does Triple H have to get involved in everything?" For the love of God, that means STOP PUSHING HIM IN THE MAIN EVENTS! I'm sorry for shouting, but listen to the people. Did you hear that crowd? They seemed more interested in a fight in the crowd or a chick flashing them or whatever it was than they were in Triple H's obligatory promo. People who you supposedly cater to want Triple H pushed into the background. Listen to the people.

Here is the response I got from one reader.

 

Then who the fuck would you push?

 

HHH is over, talented, and far better equipped to sell a ME than anyone else on the roster. He's "constantly" in the ME, because he deserves to be.

 

The crowd was disresectful, much like you are for criticising the guy despite his talent and effort on the ring, because he supposedly has "booking power". Even if you've never shown any proof of it.

After explaining to the guy that with Christian insanely over, Jericho turning heel, and Edge's guaranteed shot, you've got a nice set of fresh PPV main events waiting before you even factor in any SmackDown draftees, I read the following e-mail from another reader:

 

Hi there, just had to mention some simple logic flaws in Triple H getting another title shot, and honestly just by following recaps I know this is pretty obvious by now, but the simplicity of it baffles me.

 

Batista pinned Triple H cleanly to win the title, and again to retain in the obligatory rematch.  Triple H then lost in the Gold Rush tournament relatively cleanly (aside from the 'pull aside the rope' bit) to Chris Benoit, so right away I'd say Benoit deserves a shot.  Now Kane went on to eliminate Benoit, so he deserves a shot before Benoit.  Edge beat him and got his shot, but also has that banked one, so HE deserves another before Kane.

 

Also though, both Christian and Edge's matches were marred outside stuff, so they deserve chances for rematches anyway, and hey, didn't Ric Flair beat Christian?  HE deserves a shot before Triple H at this point.  Also though, the other side of the Gold Rush brackets shows Shawn Michaels over Shelton Benjamin (still reigning IC champ) and both of them could be in the running as well thanks to that.

 

Oh, and now Muhammad Hassan had a match and wasn't beaten, but simply just beat up.  He deserves another shot as the World Champ did not beat him.

 

About the only guys who don't are Chris Jericho who's been in a funk of late, and Randy Orton, who lost clean the day after Mania.

 

And let's not forget that Triple H demanded a shot and attacked Batista, then demanded it again the next week and walked out, didn't even show the week after that, came in the week after that and attacked him again demanding a shot, and then the week later appeared by video only and yet has the shot now?  The entire roster has been winning and losing matches during the entire duration and yet this guy has NO WINS or even matches since the Benoit loss and yet still gets the shot, on PPV no less?

 

Kane and Benoit EASILY deserve the shot more, and I've listed many others can also easily justify the reasoning.  Triple H though?  It stinks too much like late 2003.  Lost the title to Goldberg clean, lost the obligatory rematch clean, was gone for most of the month filming Blade Trinity while Kane established himself as the contender then came back demanding to be in the match, Kane had him beat and Triple H stole the pin.  There was no way to justify that title shot in December 2003 and the worst part is this one is even LESS justified as there's plenty of other contenders who have proven themselves over him.

 

Just...  damnit if they watch their own show they'll see how obvious this is.

I was merely using crowd reactions as a basis for my argument, and this guy used kayfabe to pretty much call the booking committee out.

 

Anyway, I wanted to pose the following question for the group. Obviously, Triple H has been better from an in-ring standpoint over the past year, but is he still at a point where you want to see him main event? Why or why not?

[sek69]

I think HHH can still bring it in the ring, but he's way too overexposed. It seems like every RAW starts with a 20 minute HHH promo and ends with HHH in the main event, and in the middle everyone talks about what HHH is doing or what his plan will be.

 

The casual fans are bored shitless with HHH, and WWE is going to embarrassing lengths to hide it. Why should they be emotionally invested in anyone on RAW since the moment they become popular, they're immediately booked to face (and get dominated by) HHH for no other reason than to prove he's the dominant alpha male.

 

Look at Hurricane, Rock gave him a rub and despite the fact that no one expected Helms to main event because of it, to this day when HHH wants to make the point that he's angry we get him beating up on Hurricane. RVD caught on with the crowd, and BAMMO he's booked to be clearly inferior to HHH.

 

What really becomes annoying, is when the heat starts to rise on him, he'll do some safe jobs he can point to later, "see, I'm a company man, I laid down for X". Of course whoever he jobs to usually ends up returning the favor in triplicate.

 

 

It becomes a self-fulfilling circle jerk of a prophecy. HHH can honestly say no one else on RAW can carry the ball, but the main reason he's seen as the only real main eventer is because he's booked himself to thoroughly dominate everyone he faces.

 

HHH-Batista III is a prime example. Kayfabe-wise there's no way HHH deserves a title shot. He lost twice already, yet he gets to make the demand to the champion that not only does he get another match, he gets to name the stip too. Way to completely remove your champion's balls. Batista should have just told H to go fuck himself and make him earn a title shot like anyone else. Instead, we get the big, bad Animal allowing his enemy to set the terms for his title defenses.

[Coffey]

I like Triple H. I really do. I like his entrance. I like his finisher. Hell, I like the way that he works the majority of his matches.

 

The problem is him as a whole. He's basically the same character that he was five to six years ago. The only difference is that now he wears nice outfits instead of a jean jacket over a leather jacket. He's also with Ric Flair now instead of Stephanie McMahon. At least on camera.

 

When he gets on the microphone, which is often, he usually makes his point in the first minute. Then he just keeps repeating himself as if we didn't get the message. He'd be a lot better off if he just made his statement matter of factly and then went on. If he's going to be so dominant, he should give others a chance to shine on the mic. Just cut promo's Benoit style. He doesn't need to talk for twenty minutes when every other word is "you know."

 

Obviously he shouldn't be the entire focal point of the show. The main event should always have at least three guys. That's not what they've been doing on Raw. Instead, we get Triple H and Triple H's opponent. The opponent's name doesn't even matter. Triple H Vs. whomever is going to lose the war in the feud. Yeah, they may get some battles, but ultimately Triple H will be on Raw with the big gold belt and another number at the end of his title reigns.

 

He wants to be like Flair. That's obvious. The difference is that Flair made his career out of making other people look good. He did it with Barry Windham, Bobby Eaton, Kerry Von Erich...hell, even Ronnie Garvin. Triple H just dominated all facets of everything. He dominates storylines, mic time, match time. He dominates feuds and gimmick matches. He has the most established move. He has the most established, active championship reigns. Hell, even the commentators are completely fixated on him. They can't help but talk about him during the undercard matches because Triple H is all that matters. Just because Triple H has the occasional match with "midcarders" like TAKA, Jeff Hardy, Bubba Ray Dudley and the like doesn't mean that they're going to be looked at like Dusty Rhodes, Barry Windham and Ricky Steamboat.

 

Triple H, right now, is doing to Batista what he did to Randy Orton before him. He did it to Goldberg, Booker T, Shawn Michaels and countless others. The only people that seem to be up on him are Shelton Benjamin and Chris Benoit and they don't seem to be fixtures of anything. Shelton is a faceless IC champion and Benoit is currently thrown into the random ECW mix.

 

Triple H is afraid to show ass. That's the problem. That's the difference between a good heel and a dull, boring, "we've seen this already" bad guy. Heels are supposed to be chased by the babyface. They're supposed to lose the blowoff match. The problem is that if Triple H does lose a match, it's never blown off. He lost to Batista at 'Mania. He gets a rematch. He loses the rematch. He gets into a #1 Contenders tournament. He loses in the tournament. He gets another rematch. It just doesn't make any fucking sense. Triple H is the heel, yet he's currently the one doing the chasing. Triple H is the heel, yet he's the one that never loses. Do you think Hulkamania would've worked if Hogan was heel? Do you think Steve Austin would've stayed as hot as he did had WWF not turned him face? The Rock? When they were heels, they were all "cool" heels. Triple H is a cocky heel, which means he shouldn't dominate but he does.

 

At first, Triple H was scared of Batista. I remember the facial expressions. The left an impression on me. They were that good. Now? Triple H is leaving Batista bleeding. He demands a title shot that he doesn't deserve and he gets it. In his setting no less. What gives? Shouldn't Bischoff, even if he does favor the heels, step in and say something? Do something? Shouldn't Edge get a shot before Triple H again? Christian? Flair even? Nope. Edge is thrown in with random jobbers to ruin the ECW PPV, Christian is more worried about leaving Raw and Flair is still a lackey.

 

I like Triple H but I would like him more if he decided that the other wrestlers mattered. I remember watching old WWF PPV's and TV shows. It wasn't all about the main eventers. It was all about the gold. The tag teams wanted the tag team titles. The heels wanted single gold, regardless of whom had it. Mr. Perfect wanted the IC title. It didn't matter if Bret Hart or The Mountie had it, he wanted his shot.

 

I want to see more wrestler like Hassan making points about the gold. I want them to make it a point that each wrestler can be beat by any other wrestler. It shouldn't be an entire roster of midcarders just waiting and moping around until they can lose to HHH for a month or two.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

What really becomes annoying, is when the heat starts to rise on him, he'll do some safe jobs he can point to later, "see, I'm a company man, I laid down for X". Of course whoever he jobs to usually ends up returning the favor in triplicate.

No, see, he's too smart even for that. Look at Benoit - he hasn't jobbed to HHH in years, but even though HHH put him over a few times, he hasn't actually moved up the card. I mean, hell, HHH tapped to Benoit during the Gold Rush tourney, and then HHH managed to make the ENTIRE TOURNAMENT pointess by the end of it.

 

HHH is to the point now where he can job to Benoit without Benoit actually moving up the card at all. And that scares me.

[Tim Cooke]

Without his behind the scenes games, Trips just isn't a good wrestler. His bumping is average, his selling is average, his punches are average, his move set sucks, and his mic skills are average.

 

Tim

[Coffey]

See, I disagree with almost all of that. I think he's a great wrestler. I think his bumping is fantastic. Look at his selling for Kevin Nash and Scott Steiner. Not to mention Shelton Benjamin and Chris Benoit. His selling is good too. Especially when he's going to go over in the match. It makes it look like he overcame everything and still won. He's sold well for everyone from Randy Orton to Batista. I like his punches too.

 

His move set? I think it's the best in the company. Especially in the longer matches where he incorportates legwork. His match with Booker T. at Wrestlemania is a great example. I like how he uses a lot of knee moves. In fact, the only thing I'd change is to have him knee his opponent in the midsection insted of kick them before the Pedigree.

 

I agree about the mic skills though. Average at best.

[sek69]

HHH tends to half-ass it if he knows he isn't going over or he isn't wrestling one of his buddies, which creates the opinon he isn't a good wrestler.

[goodhelmet]

I like his punches too.

Man, you really need to see Jim Duggan or Dick Murdoch unload a few punches. After that, there is no away you would appreciate a punch from Trips.

[Coffey]

You assume I haven't seen them? I think Trips does a good job, for the most part, in the ring. It's outside of the ring where he doesn't shine.

[Al]

Triple H is probably underrated as a wrestler these days, because fans are dead set on pissing on his work since they are sick of seeing him all the time. Speaking of which, here's a fun fact. Triple H is now one of only five wrestlers to wrestle at ten or more Wrestlemanias.

 

Triple H obviously has much to offer strictly as a wrestler. He is credible, which is an underrated but important aspect of promoting wrestling. He is decent enough in the ring, and capable of a good/great match with the right opponent and booking. The problem is that wrestlers with the book tend to push themselves much further than they should. Dusty Rhodes, Kevin Nash, Fritz Von Erich, hell, even Vince Russo managed to book himself a win over Ric Flair.

[goodhelmet]

You assume I haven't seen them? I think Trips does a good job, for the most part, in the ring. It's outside of the ring where he doesn't shine.

If you have then there is no way I can see how you would think Trips has a good punch.

[Coffey]

Why can't we just have a differing opinion? There's "no way" that I can think Triple H has good punches? I've seen Jim Duggan punches and they didn't stand out...just like him in general. I know you're on an old Mid-South kick right now but that doesn't mean I share your opinions.

 

I love differing views

Heh.

[goodhelmet]

I don't want to get into an argument over punches (although we can) so I will only say this... everyone should be on a Mid-South kick right now.

[Coffey]

Not everyone has income.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

The thing that really bugs me about HHH is that, while he is average-good at just about everything, he is treated like he is the best draw, the best promo guy, and the best worker the fed has ever had. And he's NONE of those things.

 

It makes me even sadder to think that he will go down as the company line "Greatest Wrestler Ever" when he eventually does retire.

[goodhelmet]

There is only one way to prevent that...

 

D-I-V-O-R-C-E

[Coffey]

Or someone better to come along. Hey, it might happen.

 

Besides, I don't think that even WWE will call him the best ever. He hasn't made them enough money. They're prolly still dubbin' that shit on Hogan or Austin.

[sek69]

If he ever ties or passes Flair's record, I'd wager WWE would start with the "best ever" BS.

 

I still say HHH isn't a bad wrestler. I've seen him have pretty good matches with people of various skill levels, it's just a matter of HHH wanting to work that leaves the impression of him being poor. Even before getting with Steph, a lot of the smark crowd was down on HHH for not always giving his best effort.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

I believe that HHH will be the company line Best Wrestler Ever, mainly because (assuming nothing unexpected happens) he will be so close to the family, and he will have never screwed around.

 

I mean, Hogan has taken his ball and gone home before - so has Austin. HHH has never done that (to my knowledge), and it doesn't seem likely that he would. Thus, they could safely call him the Best Ever, since he'll always be a strong backstage presence who doesn't plan on going anywhere.

 

I mean, you KNOW the fed doesn't want their "Best Ever" to someday go off about how horrible the whole company is, and I think HHH is the least likely to do that.

[Guest Dazed]

Last night's Raw bothered me.

 

Let's see...

 

1) A video recap of HHH making the HIAC challenge

2) Backstage segment with Ric Flair kissing up to him

3) Eric Bischoff putting him over in the ring, and saying ECW wouldn't have gone under if they had him

4) Video package of his HIAC wins, showing him destroy Foley, Jericho and HBK

5) 3 minute entrance, complete with Motorhead singing his music

6) Long winded promo, which I turned off, so can't comment on

7) Contract signing with Batista and face to face promos

 

It's overkill, and nobody else is at his level because nobody is given the chance.