Fact or Fiction?

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

Well, there was a period in the mid 90s when Taker wore a mask. Then when the mask was taken off, he had a tear tattoo'd/painted to his face. I thought, at the time, that the guy under the mask was the same guy who played the Fake Taker. I was a lil off.

[Guest Some Guy]

Taker broke his orbital bone, they wrote into into the storyline, by having Mabel and Yoko leg srop him a bunch of times, he made his return with the mask at Survivor Series 95 adn wore the mask until Bret ripped it off at RR 96. He debutes the all black look and the tear on his cheek (presumably there to show his sadnes over Paul Bearer turning on him) at Survivor Series 96 where he was lowered from from the ceiling wearing Batman's cape.

 

He wore the gray look until he returned at Summerslam 94, when he changed it to purple. He grew his hair out over the course of his WWF career and started getting the tatoos at some point during his first year in the company. When he debuted (Survivor Series 90) he had none and when he beat Hogan at Survivor Series 91 he had teh Grim Reaper tatooed on one of his forearms, then he got the other forearm done, then the upper arm, and then the other upper arm. It wasn't just like he disapeared for a while and came back looking completely different. He still moved the same, talked the same, and did the same moves (Tombstone, "Old School", Chokeslam, flying clotheline, etc...)

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

WM 7 was moved indoors because the USA v Iraq angle was a box office bomb, no pun intended. They quickly realised that, not only was there zero chance of selling out the La Arena, but that the crowd they could get would look embarrassing, so they moved it indoors, and created a cover story to hide the fact that they grossly overestimated interest in the main event

 

And don't take anything in Hogan's book seriously. It's almost a complete work from start to finish.

[Loss]

Indeed. Hogan does not shoot. Ever. About anything.

[Guest Some Guy]

I know Hogan is full of shit, hence the smiley. Reading his book, it's painfully obvious that's he's either lying or exagerating everything.

 

Hogan also takes credit for things that I would be embarassed to if I were he, like training Zeus and the idea to turn Slaughter heel and writing the final fight scene in NHB. He makes it seem like every angle he was ever involved in was his idea and Vince just OKed them.

 

Fact or Fiction: Hogan actually agreed to drop the strap to Bret before he won it at WM 9 and then changed his mind after he won it. I know that was the plan but I was wondering if he actually said that he would indeed drop it clean and pass the torch to Bret at Summerslam and then renegged on the deal once he got what he wanted?

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

Hogan refused to drop the WWF Title to Bret at SummerSlam. He felt Bret was too small, and would only lose to the bigger Yokozuna. I don't think he ever agreed to lose to Bret. Hogan was only asked to drop the belt to Bret after WM 9, not before.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

And so on.

[sek69]

I read somewhere that Taker got that teardrop tattoo when his first marriage ended, they got divorced due to him always being on the road, and the tattoo was his way of saying it was his fault.

[Guest Some Guy]

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure it was a fake tat. Seeing as though it changed size and and then disapeared. The reason I gave was a storyline reason, although it was never explained on TV that I know of.

[Guest Alfdogg]

Keep this alive.

 

Stephanie was supposed to side with Kurt Angle in the "love triangle" at the end, but HHH didn't want that because his relationship with her was just starting to heat up.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

Keep this alive.

 

Stephanie was supposed to side with Kurt Angle in the "love triangle" at the end, but HHH didn't want that because his relationship with her was just starting to heat up.

Hunter's reasoning for ending the storyline in the worst possible manner was that nobody would buy that a tough guy like himself could lose a woman to someone like Angle. Never mind the fact that fans were begging for a reason to cheer Hunter, and him being the betrayed boyfriend would have made him a huge face, and Stephanie and Kurt would have been huge heels. This was about keeping his spot, and keeping someone else from rising up.

[Marty]

Fact or Fiction: Undertaker knew about the Montreal screwjob before it happened.

 

(This is opposed to, of course, the theory that the events caught him completely by surprised, and that he was legitimately pissed at Vince afterwards for his actions.)

[Guest Cam Chaos]

I read at the time UT, Foley, Austin and the Hart Foundation guys were legitimately pissed but only Foley and the Foundation guys no showed RAW. UT and Bret had a lot of respect for one another accumulated over the years and through their matches so I could understand Taker being pissed off over the situation.

[Marty]

It was more than just the Foley, Owen & Co. I know the LOD skipped RAW and so did some midcarders who are friends with Bret (Faarooq, Savio Vega, etc.).

 

I heard something from somewhere, however, about Vince bringing up to Undertaker what was going to happen anyway. If Loss and HTQ know anything about this, I'd appreciate confirmation.

[Guest Some Guy]

Crush also no showed Raw the next night and thengot his release to go to WCW.

 

Hunter's reasoning for ending the storyline in the worst possible manner was that nobody would buy that a tough guy like himself could lose a woman to someone like Angle.

That's among the stupidist things I've ever read (the reasoning, not the post). Why the fuck would HHH think that it would be so far fetched for a woman to leave a man for another, regardless of how tough the other guy is? What does being tough have to do with losing a woman? It would make complete sense, Angle was more sensitive and much nicer to Steph than HHH was and it would have drawn a ton of money.

 

That's what I don't understand about guys holding others down. Unless you are so insecure that you don't think you can compete with them, then you should help elevate them and make more money. Isn't that what the business is about, making money? HHH really has to be the most insecure main eventer since HBK, HHH has squashed or buried literally every guy who was even a remote threat to his spot (Y2J, RVD, Booker, Kane, Orton, he convinced Vince that they didn't need Rock anymore or so implied Meltzer last night on WOL when he said "jealousy is a bitch", Goldberg, Angle, Tazz, Steiner [although he was brought in just so they could feed him to HHH], the list goes on), what the fuck is wrong with the guy? Didn't he realize that if he did just one 5 minute job to Goldberg that he could have made millions in the rematches and it wouldn't have hurt him one bit in terms of credibility because as long as Goldberg was pushed that way constantly his losig to him wouldn't be much different from everybody else.

 

Fact or Fiction: HHH has been scheduled to drop the strap and flat out refused. I'm juts wondering if he was told that he would drop it to Booker or whoever and then managed to change Vince's mind? Same for Hogan, out of curiousity (in WWF, not including Bret Hart which was already discussed in the thread).

[Loss]

He was originally supposed to drop the belt to Booker T at Wrestlemania XIX, but argued that he needed to be kept strong for Goldberg. I think HHH is to a point now where he's _so_ wrapped up in the creative end that he's probably not even asked to do anything that would make him look less than perfect, nor is such a situation ever proposed.

[Guest Some Guy]

That's kind of what I figured.

 

He certainly should have lost to Booker and then regained the belt at Bad Blood to set up the Goldberg feud, which he also sabataged.

 

Fact or Fiction: Steve Austin refused to work programs with Billy Gunn and Jeff Jarrett and is so why?

[Loss]

Austin was a fan of Gunn, actually, but didn't think the time was right. He saw Gunn more as someone who would be good in a few years than someone who was ready for a main event push when they gave it to him. Austin argued that putting Gunn in that position before he was ready would have hurt him. And sure enough, when they tried feuding him with Rock, it did.

 

As for Jarrett, that was a power play that everyone in the company saw through with Vince Russo trying to get his friend in main events. Jarrett wasn't over at all at the time, despite some people trying to argue otherwise, and Austin felt that Jarrett would have brought him down with him. Everyone, from Vince McMahon to Jim Ross, wholeheartedly agreed and Jarrett and Russo were the only people who held it against him.

 

Austin did some things from 2001-2003 that I didn't think were right at all, in terms of making his opponents look good, but he was 100% in the right to not want to do a program with Jarrett.

[Guest Alfdogg]

I've heard he refused a clean job to Jericho at Vengeance. Fact or Fiction?

[Marty]

I think that's true. I believe Austin well into his paranoia stage at the time (the real-life version) that eventually led to his walk-out from the company the following June.

[Loss]

That's true. Austin agreed to put him over, but not cleanly. I seem to recall the original plan being Jericho pinning Rock with the Rock Bottom and Austin with the Stunner.

[Guest Some Guy]

In fairness to Austin he wasn't just being paranoid, they were trying to move on from him being the top guy. They had just brought in Flair, HHH was coming back the following week, the nWo the next month, and Rock, Hogan, and HHH got top billing in the lead up to WM 18. While he was put in a feud with a career mid-carder (Scott Hall). I can see why he would be upset but to sandbag the feud with Hall and then walk out was a bit much. Then he came back, got a feud with Eddy that he was presumably happy with, was asked to job to Brock in a meaningless match, which he rightfully refused and then walked out again and beat his wife.

 

So, I can understand why he was paranoid or pissed off, but he acted like a child in the process. I can't understand why a guy won't do for others what so many had done for him. Austin was put over the virtually the whole roster in his rise and then, just like Hogan, HHH, and so many others refused to put people over to help them. Austin was the biggest star in wrestling and had he capability to make the next one, he could have easily done for someone what Bret Hart did for him, but he wouldn't. I honestly think that Rock is the only guy who didn't mind losing and putting people over. He did for Jericho, HHH, Austin, Brock, Hurricane, etc... Foley put a lot of guys over as well.

 

Fact or Fiction: Although I suppose it really comes down to opinion, Vince in his heart of hearts would prefer to have HHH as his top guy or have the Rock back full time as the top star?

 

I think if business was the only concern then it would be Rock by a landslide.

[Guest Some Guy]

That's true. Austin agreed to put him over, but not cleanly. I seem to recall the original plan being Jericho pinning Rock with the Rock Bottom and Austin with the Stunner.

That's a bit much, but Jericho should have won both cleanly. Maybe beating Rock with the Walls and Austin with the Breakdown. Beating them with their own moves would damage their characters and show that Jericho needs to use other moves to take people down because his aren't good enough.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

Fact or Fiction:  Although I suppose it really comes down to opinion, Vince in his heart of hearts would prefer to have HHH as his top guy or have the Rock back full time as the top star?

 

I think if business was the only concern then it would be Rock by a landslide.

Rock is the biggest name out of the WWE since Hogan. I am sure Vince would love him back, but can't help but think HHH has probably convinced Vince that Rock was neglecting the company that made him, being fussy (wanting a match vs Sting rather than JBL even though Sting isn't under contract) and not justifying his contract anymore given he was showing up maybe twice a year.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

In order:

 

Undertaker didn't know about the Montreal Screwjob ahead of time. The circle of people who knew was limited to Vince, Shawn, Hunter, Earl, Patterson, probably Brisco as well, and a few of the production team.

 

Crush's release was more to do with a contractual issue, as well as his usual terrible attitude.

 

Hunter has been booked to lose the Raw title to Booker and RVD, but didn't, not because he refused as much as he argued against it, citing various reasons that were bullshit or turned out to be bullshit. With Booker, it was because at the time of WM XIX he was going to drop it to Goldberg at Bad Blood that June, and said that short-term title change would hurt the belt. Of course, he then got the June title change delayed because he wanted to work a longer program with his best buddy Kevin Nash, that didn't get over a fucking lick, and had people walking out on it at house shows all over the place. With RVD, it was the old, "main event style" argument, which has no bearing at all on someone's ability to draw.

 

Austin refused to work with Gunn the night after a PPV, Fully Loaded in 1999 IIRC, because he was banged up and wanted to rest up, as well as being of the mindset that it was a match that shouldn't be done 'cold'. With Jarrett, it was mostly a personal issue, stemming over Austin's time in Memphis, as well as Jarrett's remarks about the 3:16 gimmick when Jarrett returned in October of 1997, and did that worked shoot interview on Raw that didn't get over a lick. Austin also didn't rate Jarrett as a worker, and in interviews about this a few years later, said Jarrett worked too light, saying something along the lines of, "This isn't the UFC, but damnit lemme know you're in there with me."