French catch

[Jetlag]

From what I've seen Axel Dieter had no problem doing all those flying headscissors, ranas and difficult bridge ups and working a fast paced match, just look at his matches with Mile Zrno or Steve Wright himself. No small feat considering by 1980 he was nearing the end of his career, and he wasn't exactly a small man. Knowing he worked France and Spain quite a lot I wouldn't be shocked if he had been quite the athletic guy in his younger days aswell. We know wrestlers did the quicker handspringy stuff in Britain and France before Steve Wright came around. Also, I've never heard of Steve Wright training anyone besides his son, until his son Alex founded his school in the early 2000s, where Steve would help out sometimes. The guy most credited for training the younger lightweight types in Germany in the 90s is Bernard Benesch, a French wrestler who worked for Lasartesse as a referee in Hamburg. Franz Schuhmann, the most prominent lightweight in the scene, credited Lasartesse himself with training him in the 80s, and he has said most of his training was bumping and how to use the ropes, almost everything he knew he learned from other guys while wrestling, either by being in the ring with them or watching them.

Here's Beneschs student Markus Buchholz in action against Bernie Wright:

You can see this mirrors a World of Sport style match a bit more, but I don't see how we need Steve Wright in the equation, given his brother Bernie is right there and probably showed young Markus some things in the ring before the match.

 

[David Mantell]

Dieter could fly about but he didn't do the specifically British stuff (rolling or cartwheeling or sometimes something even more clever, to untwist an armbar) that all the young kids in the 90s did. Scisseaux Volees, particularly as a counter to an armbar, was more of a French thing anyway (in Britain people would try it and get thrown off.)

Dieter did definitely go for the old German thing of exploring every single option for getting out of a hold, one by one, and the last one he tried was the one that worked. Which (to get back in topic) appears to be the preferred style of Ms Leo Dewerdt of Belgium.

[David Mantell]

(Will review Bernie Wright Vs Markus Buchholz on the German Catch thread. I suggest discussion of that match continue over there.)

[David Mantell]

On 2/21/2025 at 12:01 AM, David Mantell said:

Gary Clwyd/ Welsh in France! For a guy with one ITV match against fellow TBW Peter Bainbridge, he certainly got about a bit.  I make that 16;TV bouts in a career.

Cullen at this stage is still a blue-eye (he started going heel during his World Heavy Middleweight title feud with Robbie Brookside in 1991-1992) . As far as the  live French audience is concerned, the most familiar figure would be faux Cowboy Jessy Texas who has been knocking around the FFCP turning up on TV to feud with young Flesh Gordon since as far back as 1983. Another familiar face would be referee Charley Bollet, kid brother of legendary heel Andre Bollet and another survivor of Old Catch on A2/FR3.

Fourth participant Jörg Schrage is a German doing a gimmick as a heel truck driver.  In England this would be a truly sinister thing - lorry driver sadly have a bad reputation for being unmasked as serial killers and sex murderers over here. Fear not however, he's just a curmudgeonly German truckie.  He and Jessy do a really strange promo with Jessy hanging out the cabin door of Jorg's truck.

Match itself is not a lot to write home about, one fall after ten minutes of action. Gary pays homage to the local flavour with a nifty Scisseaux Volees takedown which unfortunately crashes into the ropes, not in a Kent Walton "Ran out of Mat"kind of way but rather as if the ropes were an unexpected obstacle the wrestlers collided with that mucked up their big spot. Cullen pulls off a neat monkey flip and the heels get the win with a rather badly done low flying version of the LOD's Doomsday Device off the middle turnbuckle on poor old Gary.

The rest is the heels doing their dirty work (Bollet gives them a Premier Avertisement) and the blue eyes retaliating. Reasonably action packed but technically nothing that you couldn't have seen on WWF or particularly WCW TV at the time.

Gary Welsh had another match in France. Unfortunately it was teaming with fellow youngster the Young .Wiganner against North American monsters Double Trouble (Rick Crawford and Carl "Quebecer Pierre" Wallace. I suspect a squash ...

And so far I'm right. It looks like Demolition Vs enhancement talent b circa 1988.  Lots of bodychecks and. Gary stays tagged in for most of the match, Wiganner gets in a tiny bit offence with about two dropkicks. The rest of the match is five minutes of bodychecks and double teaming, culminating in a Bulldogs style slamming ones own partner atop the opponent for the pin.

 

[David Mantell]

On 4/20/2025 at 1:20 PM, Phil Lions said:

November 21, 1988:
Prince Zefy vs. Dick Murdoch (Alain Lesage)

Interesting. I assumed this was Ron Clarke who used the names "Dick Murdoch" and "Dick the Bruiser" in the UK. Okay then ...

This comes from a new YouTube channel who have reuploaded various old odds and sods about 3 months ago, claiming to be a "Collaboration" between different promotions.  As far as I can see, the only pre-1988 match on their channel is the 1987 FR3 Flesh Gordon & Prince Zèfy Vs Marquis Richard & Jessy Texas.bout we've already seen (but which so far has not turned up in any INA wash (unless @Matt D knows better ...) From the lack of a Eurosport stamp, I guess this is the original 1988 TF1 transmission on Minuit Sport.

Murdoch gets to work with the dirty wrestling, pushing Zefy's neck on the ropes, pounding and illegally kidney punching him to the mat and stomping on him once downed, until L'Arbitre warns him.  The damage done, Murdoch sticks to the rules for a bit, slamming the sweet Prince and applying a cross-handed grovit. He pounds Zèfy on the ropes getting another warning. Another slam draws approval from a blond girl at ringside. No accounting for taste. Zefy on the mat gets tired of selling and tries a monkey climb but his legs go either side likeca bodyscissors and Murdoch throws him off. Another slam, Murdoch is allowing the Prince up.  Dick tries the cross hander again but Zèfy armdrags him twice, clotheslines and guillotine elbowsmashes him, gets in a crafty jump (earning himself a warning too) and delivering Manchette, a rear snapmare and - in his first flying move of the bout-  a ground flying bodypress into cross press that gets 2. He tries this whole sequence again but Dick catches and slams him. So back to stomps, pressure points, thumb tomthroat .....He dominates a Manchette battle with Zèfy, slams his head in the mat, stomps his fingers, chokes, pounds and struts triumphantly. Eventually he gets a side chancery throw into chinlock and rests a bit before resuming the dirty work. With some effort H3 gets another slam. Murdoch goes for a pin but Zèfy bridges and can carry Dick's weight.  Until he keeps over sideways. Murdoch gets an armbar and  makes a hammerlock but the Prince does on of the three characteristic French counters, the reverse snapmares to land behind Dick, bounce him off the ropes and get hi m up in a Fireman's carry, aeroplane spin and drop, dropkick, Manchette and Planchette Japonaise. As one of the two commentators puts it "Voila Le Zèfy qu'on connais.". A headbutt and missile dropkick follow. Zèfy gets Murdoch in the ropes and splashes him but misses thesecond time and falls to ringside. Murdoch's female fan puts s snake on him - the penny drops, she's Murdoch's valet and we've seen her before.  Murdoch pounds the Prince at ringside and finally gets an Avertisement. It continues all around the ring ending in slamming Zèfy's head on the post. Murdoch gets back in the ring just in time to win by KNOCKOUT.  Murdoch and Snake woman celebrate as an irate Flesh Gordon comes to ringside to protest but gets arrested.

Bit of a disappointing squash for a Prince Zèfy match. There was a follow up the next week...

[David Mantell]

... And this was it.  In the promo at the start, Flesh mentions he is averaging an injured friend, referring to the Zèfy match the previous week.

On 12/25/2024 at 4:28 PM, David Mantell said:

On 12/25/2024 at 4:28 PM, David Mantell said:

On 10/1/2015 at 10:51 PM, pantherwagner said:

I was watching some Euro catch and those of you on youtube already know how this works: you watch a match then click on another link then on another one and you end up watching the weirdest stuff. I clicked on Flesh Gordon vs Dick Murdoch from FEC/EWF in the early 90s. Flesh Gordon looked ridiculous and wrestles like shit so I was curious to see what could Dick Murdoch do with him. Well, it was a fake Dick Murdoch so not much. Then Gordon comes out with two chicks and they have their tits out and are happily dancing around. WTF France.

I think that's all pretty unfair.

Murdoch, we already know, is Dick Harrison aka Ron Clarke of UK opposition promotion tag team  the Lincolnshire Poachers. Flesh's look, we now know, basically comes from his Lucha Libre background.  This is him in an intermediate stage, no longer the high flying missile dropkicking tag partner of Walter Bordes but not yet the tubby bald aging moustachioed figure of the early C21st.  It's the early Maxi Cuisine mat so presumably originally screened on TF1 In 1988. English language commentary is by British MC John Harris who also refereed the Johnny South Vs Johnny Palance  bout I just posted to the British thread.  Referee here is Charley Bollet (brother of Andre Bollet, Roger Delaporte's old tag partn

Flesh gets a side headlock on but Murdoch resists cross buttock attempts.  He gets a single leg coming off the ropes but Murdoch pounds him down, getting some stomps in., getting a 2 count on a pin attempt .Flesh fights back with two well executed flying cross buttocks and a dropkick.  A snapmares gets Murdoch down for a 2 count.  Flesh dumps Murdoch to ringside, gets in three elbowsm throws him back in, gets another over the shoulder snapmare, then a third flying cross buttock gets the win.

Short but sweet and undeserving of the hatchet job @pantherwagner gave it.

 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Pretty sure that's not Dick Murdoch. Serge in the comments says he was a French wrestled named Alain Lesage.

[David Mantell]

6 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Pretty sure that's not Dick Murdoch. Serge in the comments says he was a French wrestled named Alain Lesage.

Definitely not the REAL Captain Redneck (although he did show up in Germany against Otto Wanz in 1986- already posted to the German thread) but Ron Clarke did use the name so I previously thought it was him. But apparently it's Lesage.

Any info on him pre-1988?

[David Mantell]

Quote

Tuesday is French Catch Day: Mostly Australians? Tolios! Scott! Williams! Marcello!

 

12/3/89 

 

MD: We're deep in the wilderness here, 1989. The presentation is very different. They start with clips of Wrestlemania, mainly the Can-Am Connection. Both wrestlers in the first match come out to Turn Back Time. I'm pretty sure they have a boxing ring they're repurposing. It's all just odd.

 

John Tolios vs Black Scott

 

MD: Tolios was greek and competent even if he adjusted for the time. Scott had a mask and came out in a black kilt too which was a nice touch. He also had a dagger in his kneepad that the ref had to take away from him. We have footage of them wrestling against each other in 85 Australia I think? And this was... kind of strange. Chinlocks. Clotheslines. It was nominally 2/3 falls with Tolios winning the first one after coming back with an eyepoke and locking in an airplane spin. They went into a second fall with a nice atomic drop over the top. Scott came back by pulling down the top turnbuckle pad but didn't get too far with it. Tolios ended up doing the corner shoulder first bump, going out to the floor and getting counted out, so I guess a countout ends the match automatically? While there were some holds and some technique this didn't feel like something we'd see even earlier in the decade. Just seeing a clothesline, or some rope running where one was dodged was a little unsettling honestly. Between that and the fact the opening montage was all from the WWF, it's clear the infection has set in. But of course, maybe there wouldn't have been wrestling on TV at all without it and you can't say this wasn't competent. It just didn't feel right.

 

Lou Marcello vs Gary Scott

 

MD: Ok, this wasn't a fluke. They've got an Australian/New Zealand touring group here for some reason. The ref is Australian too. Gary Scott is billed from New Zealand as the Kiwi Kid. We're far away from the licensed French wrestlers of the 50s - mid-80s. Kiwi played the heel here. He had facepaint and I was expecting more of an Ultimate Warrior thing, I think. Instead he stooged, played into the three hiptosses then gets hiptossed himself and going for a handshake to try to take over, etc. That sort of stuff. 

 

The first fall was a lot of Marcello in charge and it was simple but effective stuff. The most unique thing was that rear legsplitter where you headbutt the butt which probably should stay in the 80s. Scott would try things and Marcello would just overcome and generally take back over on the arm. Still, Scott was able to get the fall off of a body press. He controlled a bit more in the second fall and then played king of the mountain in the third, letting Marcello come back. All of this was perfectly fine and I'd probably enjoy the exact same match a lot in 2025 but you have to compare it to even the early 80s Catch stuff.

 

Eddie Williams/Bruce Davis vs Vic Murray/Kenny Meglin

 

MD: Eddie Williams is billed from Martinique. Which means he is in fact the Eddie Williams from the 60s, also being Eddie Morrow. Apparently. He could still do a cartwheel. He didn't work a ton of this though. He was mainly there for hot tags. This is another one which was competent and maybe even more than that, because this was the match that got the kids in the crowd going. They'd occasionally cut to them in the other matches and they'd be sitting there bored as could be. This one, they got really into the heat. 

 

Said heat followed a shine where the babyfaces (and that feels more appropriate than stylists here) did quick tags and worked the arm and some ones when the ref wasn't looking (though he turned around too soon). Murray and Meglin took over with sheer brutishness and worked over Davis. He'd get comebacks and tag in Williams who would be dynamic for a short period and then Davis would get dragged back down to chicanery. They cut off the ring and distracted the ref and as noted, the kids really didn't like it in the best way, getting out of their seats and complaining, especially when the ref missed a tag. 

 

Things really broke down in the second fall, literally, as a corner whip destroyed the boxing ring. They tried to fix it but it was hopeless and more double teaming happened while the ref was distracted. They sent out a guy in a black ninja get up to cause even more chaos and things really just fell apart. Overall it was solid stuff while it lasted, just again lacking a lot of the hallmarks of Catch as we knew it. 

 

Labels: Black Scott, Bruce Davis, Eddie Williams, Eddy Williams, French C, Gary Scott, John Tolios, Kenny Meglin, Lou Marcello, Vic Murray

Apparently this wasn't French Wrestling per se, but rather an Australian promotion on tour in France, therefore about as French as the WWF  Tour De France two months earlier, with Hogan vs Savage headlining. Ring looks to be European..

@Dav'oh any of these guys familiar to you?  This is a decade-plus after Jim Barnett pulled out.

What station was this on?  December 1989 sounds like an odd date- actual French Catch had moved to Eurosport by that point. I'd be interested to know the fuller story behind this getting on TV.

 

[Phil Lions]

1 hour ago, David Mantell said:

Apparently this wasn't French Wrestling per se, but rather an Australian promotion on tour in France, therefore about as French as the WWF  Tour De France two months earlier, with Hogan vs Savage headlining. Ring looks to be European..

@Dav'oh any of these guys familiar to you?  This is a decade-plus after Jim Barnett pulled out.

What station was this on?  December 1989 sounds like an odd date- actual French Catch had moved to Eurosport by that point. I'd be interested to know the fuller story behind this getting on TV.

This wasn't in mainland France. This was a show in Noumea, New Caledonia, and it aired on the local RFO Nouvelle Calédonie channel.

[David Mantell]

56 minutes ago, Phil Lions said:

This wasn't in mainland France. This was a show in Noumea, New Caledonia, and it aired on the local RFO Nouvelle Calédonie channel.

(goes and looks up New Caledonia on Wikipedia). Part of Oceania. Makes sense that a bunch of Aussies and New Zealanders were on the bill then. 

Curioser and Curioser.  So even less French Catch than the WWF's French tours -in fact about as French Catch as Montreal Grand Prix wrestling -less even as some Catcheurs, most obviously Jean Ferre, used Montreal instead os Stampede as their foot in the door of North America.

What was the INA doing holding a copy of this if it's not actual France? (EDIT: Apparently NC is constitutionally a part of France like Algeria once was, so that could be why.)

 

[Phil Lions]

10 minutes ago, David Mantell said:

What was the INA doing holding a copy of this if it's not actual France?

New Caledonia was a French territory, and the channel in question was created and owned by ORTF.

[David Mantell]

Okay, I've decided to farm the New Caledonia stuff off onto its own thread- any more comments about it, please go there- and am reviewing a replacement bout.

On 4/30/2018 at 1:34 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Andre the Giant (Jean Ferre) vs. Frank Valois (aired 10/31/70)

What a difference a few years in the city make. Andre had grown his hair out and was looking very suave compared the last match. Once his hair was ruffled, he looked pretty much like the 70s Andre we're familiar with and wrestled the same way. Gone were the holds and matwork. Now it was cocked fists and leaning heavily on his man in the ropes. I think Andre was already Valois' meal ticket at this point. Valois played the role of a journeyman heel using plenty of inside moves to try to get a handle on the Giant but only really succeeding at irritating him. It was slow going for the most part. I don't mind European bouts where the heel cheats but I expect to see some fireworks. It's interesting because it's early Andre but won't blow your socks off.

Andre still looks a lot slimmer than the mid 70s. Under other circumstances Valois would be a fairly burly Heavyweight. Andre has him cornered at the start. He uses power rather than technique to get out of a top wristlock and a side headlock and bodychecks Valois down like Big Daddy (Andre could very well have seen Georg "Schurli" Blemenschutz by this point, maybe even fought him at the Heumarkt.   Andre maintains an armbar during an armdrag thrice when Valois cross buttock or rope assisted throws him.  Valois is a Canadian so he wrestled a North American style, little or no escapes or chain sequences. He soon breaks out the Manchettes and regrets it as Andre no sells.   He blatantly punches Andre and it has no effect but would surely have been worth un Avertisement had it had any impact. The same ref tells Andre off for menacing Valois with a windmlliing arm. Things pause while Andre and L'Arbitre sort it out. Andre gets a bearhug, pushes Valois to the ropes, threatens to punch him, remembers himself and Valois uses the distraction to get a legdive into toe/ankle plus legspread.  Andre boots him into the ropes and flips him with his feet, not a Planchette Japonaise/Monkey Climb as Valois would have collapsed under the weight!  Valois gets an armlever out of a full finger Interlock and uses a hairpull to drag the Giant down into the Guard.  Andre gets up and takes over, making a Japanese Stranglehold of it. He marches Valois across the ring and pushes him into the ropes.  He releases and pats Valois who, angry and patronised, turns and threatens Andre with a back elbow, Andre tells him off.  Andre gets a headlock but Valois gets the advantage with a jabbing thumb to the throat.  He chops and Manchettes the Giant around., grovits him and turns him away from L'Arbitre so he can get in a concealed illegal punch the bigger man in the head.  The crowd bay for an Avertisement and he eventually gets one. Andre gets a chinlock of his own and uses it to position Valois just right for a slug over the head.  (I'm noticing this trope a lot in heavier weight European wrestling, using a hold to position an opponent just right for a clean strike.). He gets a side headlock but Valois overpowers him, ties onecsrm in the ropes and gives him a slap like Zsa Zsa Gabor.  Andre pulls himself up, gets the windmilling going and gets Valois crying off and the ref reprimanding him.  Andre complains that Valois pulled his hair just as Valois creeps up behind to do just that. Andre turns in time so Valois chokes and slaps him again. Andre decides to sort things out and Valois looks frightened as Andre corners him and slaps back. Not sure if he gets un Avertisement back. Valois gets Andre in a full nelson.  Andre pulls the arms down easily. Valois gets a bearhug, Andre easily undresses it, pulls Valois in for a bodycheck into the ropes and ties him  up   The referee talks Andre out of following up and unties Valois.  Andre gets a waistlock (not a squeezing bearhug) but Valois fish hooks his mouth and ties Andre in the ropes just like at WM6. He chokes and pounds the Giant until the ref pulls him off.   Valois gets back in an pushes the still tied up Andres nose, picking him off the mat and carrying on the treatment.  Andre recovers and lands four Manchettes, the last of which floors le Méchant. Andre gets a legdive and toe/ankle hold, Valois grabs the ropes so Andre does the old pull off and drop trick on him.  Andre gets Valois by the back of the neck (the fingers in the right place could be a blood-choke) and smacks his head into the corner.  He gets a rear waistlock, drops him and catches him in a rear seated bodyscissors and bashes his spine into the mat as the crowd chant" AH ...OUAIS!". Valois tries unlocking the feet but hasn't the strength and slaps them in frustration.  The crowd are having great fun as they always did with this spot (there is film of it from the 1940s. Seriously.). Valois painfully turns himself into the front facing position and tries for a pin attempt - he is lucky IMHO to get that 1 count. He slugs Andre who pushes him off and threatens him with a fist. But Valois goes for the neck, possibly a similar blood choke as earlier as Andre's legs loosen and Valois walks free.  Andre recovers and is up but Valois gets a side headlock on.  Andre atomic drops him on one knee, lifts him up and drops him into the rear seated body scissors for some more AH OUAIS treatment. Valois eventually makes it to the ropes.  Andre corners and nearly punches Valois until warned off by L'Arbitre.  Valois gets a rear double wristlock. But Andre still has his other arm and he gets a crotch hold and bodyslam. Valois is up and getting a headlock, positioning himself to avoid a waistlock.  He throws Valois to the ropes and gives him a big backdrop on the rebound.  Valois spends too much time hanging on to the ropes and Andre complains to the ref who, for once, agrees and gives Valois his Deuxième Et Dernière Avertisement. Andre gets a rear chinlock but Valois backs him into the ropes. (The commentator mentions how the Elysée Montmartre is all nice and modern and refurbished these days.)  Andre releases but such is his arm length he can legally grab Valois back in the sideways chinlock before he has gone too far.  Valois again goes for the ropes and slips on a bodyscissors as he does.  Andre blasts him off with a double axehandle.  A brief slug and punch ends with Valois pushing Andre into the ropes - then gets a good posting on him, with Andre selling his back and a loud crack coming from the ring framework!  Andre gives Valois a posting of his own. He is ready to pound him into the corner but L'Arbitre objects, Andre is ready to argue it with him but Valois gets him in  the back first.  Andre is determined to get some revenge and gets a side headlock and a concealed illegal punch worthy of the true Méchant he would not become (outside Japan) for another 17 years.  He then tells the ref he slapped Valois's scalp like villains do. The crowd roars approval of this, the big boys is sussed to all the tricks. Valois gets his head free (but annoyingly there is a crowd shot so we don't see how he does it.) Andre gets some Manchettes and a might backhand chop like Billy Two Rivers.  He gives one more blast before slamming and cross pressing Valois for the win. Despite everything, Andre still shakes Valois's hand and he accepts (it would be more than Valois's life was worth to refuse!) Another wrestler gets in the ring for his match and Andre tries to shake his hand but he angily refuses and backs off until Andre is gone. Buttonholed for a ringside promo, Andre says Valid was tough because of all his dirty wrestling tricks, before fans mob him. He mentions he has two brothers and two sisters and gives all their heights (in metric). and what he has for breakfast ! 

Slow and deliberate, although the brawling only gradually builds up over the course and there is the odd intelligent nugget.  It says something that Andre The Bleedin' Giant was the superior technical wrestler here (student of Roy and Tony StClair) although Valois, as a North American, had a far more advanced grasp of ring psychology.  Against a better technical wrestler, as OJ noted, you get better results. He still takes a lot of bumps that both Vince McMahons would be APPALLED by but stuff their "working strong" garbage anyway, I say.