7/7 Smackdown

[sek69]

 

Again, drawing a correlation between the two things, Austin's crucifixation and Christ's, is the real insult, not the dumb wrasslin angle itself.

 

 

Which is my point with the angle last night. I didn't have a problem with it until they started invoking images of terror videos and having Cole and Tazz call Davari a martyr for the cause. It was an unnecessary level of realism.

[Loss]

I need some more time to formulate my thoughts and give this thread the attention that it deserves, but it's making for a great, spirited read.

[Mad Dog]

I'm not offended by any of the angles per say. I'm more offended by the fact that no one working for the company had the sense to say any of that stuff might be a bad idea and the fact that it has no place in wrestling.

[goodhelmet]

Are you upset with me helmet?

No your opinions are your own, , but I think you are slightly off base, and like Loss, I want to make sure I respond with thought before making a detailed response.

[Guest Sass]

Sek: Terror videos? Are you talking about the video Hassan comes out to with his music? Otherwise, there was no terror video.

 

Did you actually watch the entire segment?

 

Mad Dog: Agreed. But, group beatdowns with serious consequences have been around for years in wrestling. Dusty in a cage with the Four Horsemen. Ricky Morton in the parking lot with the Four Horsemen. The Freebirds beating up an old Fritz Von Erich. Terry Funk choking out Ric Flair with a plastic bag.

 

Hell, Team No Respect in FMW pissed on the company President in the middle of the ring after handing Shoichi Arai a beatdown.

 

Hassan and five masked goons choking out the Undertaker with piano wire will go down in wrestling history alongside these same beatdowns. It's just another angle to me. Back in the day, fans thought Terry Funk choking out Ric Flair was a play on Ted Bundy. Yes, Ted fucking Bundy. Bundy was going to be executed in '89 when the angle went down but I remember hearing fans of the NWA getting upset over the "relation" between Funk trying to kill Flair with a plastic bag and Bundy slaughtering 2 dozen + women.

 

Yeah, Ted fucking Bundy. I still shake my head about that.

 

I thought it was dumb then and I think people having a fit over a dumb wrestling angle that didn't have the words "terrorists", "Allah", "Jihad" or "bin Laden" are acting dumb now. You'd think Hassan brought out Osama bin Laden in the middle of the ring with his dialysis machine in tow, giving Hassan the signal to chop off the Undertaker's head. Cripes, I just find this all silly with the way people are up in arms about this. It's wrasslin. Had the WWE shown SD! live on Thursday with this angle going down, then I'd call it bad taste just like I did when the WWE tried to garner up publicity for a bait and switch wedding with Chuck and Billy. That was a cooridnated attempt to get press that I found to be douchey. This angle, bad timing and situation aside, I just don't feel the same way about. They just aren't in the same ball park.

 

At least the WWE warned viewers ahead of time that something worth having discresion about was going to go down. The WWE, to the best of my knowledge, has rarely done anything like that and I was shocked they even showed the screen crawler. I thought they might black out the whole segment. So, technically, someone, probably Vince, did realize the angle and it's timing would be in bad taste but it still aired. The show must go on...

[Loss]

I think WWE is forgetting wrestling is based around larger than life characters whom the audience can connect with and enjoy a couple of hours escapism watching. People don't want or need social issues addressed by a wrestling company and why they want to given the sham nature of the business is beyond me. Why emulate real life when your audience are trying to forget about their own by watching your show?

I actually think it would be fascinating to see how many people watch wrestling for the purpose of escapist entertainment, and how many don't see that as one of the issues. I'm not sure which it would be. I know that in the past, we had Russian heels during a Cold War, and we even had an Iraqi sympathizer during the Gulf War, and part of me wants to say WWE attempting to stay relevant isn't a bad thing, but I'll admit that the other part of me sees this as really desperate booking, seeing dollar signs in the really strong patriotism/jingoism stateside right now and wanting to market it. That's sort of stupid though, because domestic business is dying a miserable death, and the more isolated they become in the way they book guys like Hassan, the less they're going to draw internationally.

[Mad Dog]

Agreed. But, group beatdowns with serious consequences have been around for years in wrestling. Dusty in a cage with the Four Horsemen. Ricky Morton in the parking lot with the Four Horsemen. The Freebirds beating up an old Fritz Von Erich. Terry Funk choking out Ric Flair with a plastic bag.

True but those beatdowns also didn't completely betray a character's purpose. Remember Hassan is supposed to be complaining about people treating him like a terrorist even though he's just a normal American. Not acting like a terrorist. I think the beatdown could've been achieved without the stupidity tagged onto it. Hassan could've just paid off some other heels to help him beatdown Taker.

 

I'll say my other big issue with Smackdown was the Guerrero/Mysterio stuff. We get it.... Eddie knows a secret. Did we need three drawn out segments of talking to establish that?

[Loss]

Katie Vick was more offensive than this.

I'm not sure if I agree with that or not. Katie Vick was offensive because it had absolutely nothing to do with pro wrestling and was a dumb idea, but I don't know who it could have offended on a personal level. Necrophiliacs having their good name mocked? I see Katie Vick as more of a dumb idea that showed how out of touch WWE was with the audience than anything that could potentially offend any group of people.

 

Chavo decrying his Mexican heritage was way, way more offensive than this angle.

I'd say that's pretty close, and what's even worse is that this gimmick is most likely going to flop, and Chavo, perhaps the most awesomely underrated wrestler on the roster, will end up like Val Venis or Charles Wright and end up in purgatory. I think this is a dumb idea, mainly because of the name they gave him, but I think it would play better on Smackdown with him actually feuding with a babyface Latino. That said, it's more excessive than wrestling needs to be.

 

Hell, Trish acting like a dog was 10 times more offensive than this.

To me, that's probably the most offensive thing they've ever done, along with maybe Faarooq and Bradshaw going to a gay bar on RAW in 2002 and all the men casually hanging out in dresses. That was more pathetic and out of touch than offensive even, I suppose. Trish barking like a dog was just awful and seemed like Vince getting revenge on some really hot girl that turned him down in high school. It was disturbing and I'm sure a chunk of the female audience that tuned in for the HHH/Steph/Angle love triangle tuned out when they did this. WWE has a horrible habit of not looking at the big picture. There's your understatement of the year.

 

I thought the martyr pose was great.? Davari went out there and took one for the team in order for Hassan to hurt the Undertaker.? He was the lamb being led to the slaughter but he accepted his fate.? There's no way Hassan could hang with the Undertaker in a singles match.? But, if he wears the Undertaker down and puts the fear of Allah into him, then you have some psychology and mind games going on leading up to their match.? They have a beef now going into the #1 contender's match at GAB.? The Undertaker now has a real purpose and reason to destroy Davari in their match.? The payback should be sweet.

The problem with this angle is that Hassan is an American who thinks he's being discriminated against because of his ethnicity, and he's a whining heel for pointing it out. That could be somewhat offensive. Now, Hassan has proven everyone right -- that Arab Americans *don't* deserve to be treated like everyone else because they have masked thugs at their disposal and will attack those who attempt to silence them by dedicating the beating to Allah. That's the case in the WWE universe anyway.

 

I would have been *maybe* slightly bothered by the angle if Cole and Tazz had called them terrorists.? That would have been dumb.? As it stands, they're just goons in masks to me who gave the Undertaker one of the best beatings I have ever seen him take.? He really did look like he was getting choked out.? The bit at the end where all the guys were praying to Hassan was a nice touch.

That may be the point that the line was crossed.

 

I'm really starting to like Hassan and last night he established himself as a serious threat.? He took out the Undertaker in brutal fashion.? That clubbing to the back the Undertaker took as he was fighting off the first two guys was an outstanding smash to the back.? The dead man has fought 10 guys before but he went down when someone clocked him from behind.? I liked that.

 

What would have been really offensive to me was if the Undertaker would have risen up after his beating.? That would have just been insulting to the intelligence to see him get back up after the beating he took.? He's not so dead anymore

I honestly can see both sides of this clearly enough that I'm not sure where I stand. But I wanted to give some food for thought.

[sek69]

 

Sek: Terror videos? Are you talking about the video Hassan comes out to with his music? Otherwise, there was no terror video.

 

 

I'm talking about the videos of terrorists sawing people's heads off that were released over the internet. Parts of the Hassan angle were CLEARLY based off those videos.

 

Anyone who saw those videos would immediately be offended at the angle.

[Loss]

I'm not offended by any of the angles per say.  I'm more offended by the fact that no one working for the company had the sense to say any of that stuff might be a bad idea and the fact that it has no place in wrestling.

This is where I stand on everything I think.

[Coffey]

I just want to point out that Trish acting like a dog wasn't distasteful to me and, in fact, I found it hot. Not because she was barking like a dog but because she was scantily clad and crawling on all fours.

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

Anyone who can't see why someone would find last night's angle offensive is as horribly out of touch with reality as WWE seems to be.

 

This wasn't The Four Horsemen beating down Dusty Rhodes. The purpose of the angle is besides the point. The point is, besides completely betraying Hassan's character, they went out of their way to re-enact one of the most disturbing incidents that I've ever seen or probably ever will see in my entire life. Goverment contractors being beheaded in a foreign land by terrorists is not something to be taken lightly, re-enacted or mocked on a freakin' wrestling show.

 

It wasn't five guys in wrestling boots and tights; they weren't random "masked goons." It was five guys deliberately dressed in ski masks and desert fatigues like the ones we saw in the videos where innocent civilians had their heads severed from their bodies by extremists. With Devari the martyr, Hassan the mastermind and all his little buddies emulating the mannerisms from the terror videos to a tee. You call that "just another angle?" The nerve, audacity and gall it must take to incorporate this into a wrestling program just to put some cheap heat on a wrestler and further a feud...again, it simply boggles the mind.

 

There were a million other ways the same purpose could have been achieved without doing a stage play of one of the sickest things I've ever been privvy to. That's my issue. I'm sure those who have lost family to such incidents didn't think it was "just wrestling." It was insensitive and plain stupid. And anyone who doesn't agree with that or find anything wrong with last night's display, I think are equally as insensitve and stupid.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

Hassan and five masked goons choking out the Undertaker with piano wire will go down in wrestling history alongside these same beatdowns. It's just another angle to me.

That's as sad as it is shocking.

 

FMW was a fucking garbage promotion, it didn't have a world wide TV and stockholders whom this has likely appalled as much as it has anyone else that can realise how fucking tasteless airing such a display on the very day so many die and are injured by an terrorist attack actually is.

[Guest Bruiser Chong]

Here I didn't even realize yesterday was Thursday.

[Guest Sass]

Kative Vick was a giant insult to the intelligence. That will always rank high with me in the Wrestle Crap department. But, I did not find it offensive in the same vein as Stephie boo's comments about her dad and 9/11.

 

You know who everyone is really overlooking with the RAGE~!!! and disgust for WWE angles?

 

Chavo.

 

Chavo destroyed his LIFE and his CHARACTER unlike Hassan. This is supposed to be serious too. This isn't like Akeem who was played up for laughs. This guy really has gone all self-hate on himself and other Mexicans, which I find offensive to the intelligence since this angle is *not* being played up for laughs.

 

Hassan took off the kiddy gloves and went after the #2 guy in the company and told everyone he was no longer fucking around. That's what I took from the angle. I saw Hassan when he made his debut and whenever I flipped through RAW, I would make it a chore to catch his angles and matches since I found him to be one of the more entertaining characters the WWE has rolled out in a while. Honestly, I didn't even think of the word "terrorists" when I saw the goons come out. If anything, they just reminded me of the Assassains team who I always thought looked cool with the masks on.

 

Hassan's character evolved is how I looked at last night's angle.

 

Think about it...

 

Would Hassan hiring any of the white workers to beat up the Undertaker make any sense? Davari is the only guy he will team with. He has stated his disdain for the Americans that think him and all of his people are justs terrorists looking to harm America. Now, I would like to see him go after guys in backstage segments where he asks workers what they think of him and his people and if they say "terrorists", they get beat down for their ignorance. That's something I could dig too. Put a couple plant fans in the audience that give Hassan some "weird looks" like other Arabs get in public and have Hassan attack those people too. He should make ignorance of his people, not just him, a crime. Anyone who thinks all Arabs are terrorists should be destroyed. That's an angle that I could get behind since Hassan's tweener status would really be defined.

 

Is Hassan really a bad guy?

 

I thought calling in some in-house goons to beat up the Undertaker was a great, great touch. If anything, Hassan's character would have been really warped if he asked for help from the same wrestlers he has come to beat and destroy. It keeps Hassan in his own world. He isn't caught up in the any bullshit with JBL, HHH, Edge, Angle, etc. He's got his own thing going on and that's how it should be. It makes him a unique character and that's something the WWE has been lacking for years.

[Loss]

Because I don't know how I feel about this ...

 

... is this different from Eddie Gilbert and the Koloffs burying Bill Watts under a Russian flag during the Cold War?

[Guest Sass]

I also saw the first decapitation that came out on the net in the spring of '04. My girlfriend cried when she saw that. She had never seen something so graphic. She never went to the movies much and does not watch much TV. I really didn't know how to react myself. All I knew was that it was wrong for an innocent man with a family to be beheaded and for those fuckos to glorify the death by beating him up. Had the goons or Hassan gotten ready to chop the Undertaker's head off then I would agree with the "that is totally offensive and out of line" group. THAT would be in poor taste and also be fuckin retarded to boot, especially after the UK attack.

 

The Undertaker would also come back from the dead for like the 5th or 6th time. That's just one time too many.

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

Reading Sass' posts make me realize how he is completely ignoring the REAL WORLD and how one might find this offensive and is focusing soley on angles, how it may or may not harm one's "character" and WrestleCrap.

 

I couldn't care less about Hassan being a stereotypical wrestling character. But you don't go re-enacting sensitive real world events like fucking live executions. That's so goddamn boneheaded no one should have to tell you WHY. You said yourself your girlfriend CRIED after seeing it and that man was a stranger to her. How do you think the families or just plain decent people felt seeing Undertaker mock that incident by having a wire around his throat? Do Cole & Tazz really have come out and call those "masked goons" TERRORISTS for you to get the picture? They really have to go to the extreme of actually putting a blade to 'Taker's throat for you to make the correlation between the two incidents and how WWE WANTS you to draw parallels? I guess some people DO need shit spelled out for them.

 

Hassan not siding with any other WWE wrestler would be fine. Hire five of your "own" people to beat up Undertaker. But why have them dress in the exact same way as the terrorists in the videos that went up on the internet last summer? Are you dim enough to think it was just to conceal their identity because they couldn't find five Arab-Americans to play the part?

 

You're too caught up in the world of wrestling and how what Hassan did makes sense in McMahonland to even begin to comprehend why those of us who live in the real world would find not what they did, but HOW they did it so freakin' disgusting.

[Guest Sass]

Because I don't know how I feel about this ...

 

... is this different from Eddie Gilbert and the Koloffs burying Bill Watts under a Russian flag during the Cold War?

If Eddie said "nuke the world and Watts!" after the angle then, yeah, that would have been in bad taste since folks, myself included, were worried the world would get nuked. Hassan or Davari trying to cut off the Undertaker's head with a sword or a knife, only for a babyface to interfere, would have also been along the same vein. Very, very, bad taste and highly offensive to the intelligence.

[Guest Sass]

CJ, you're too caught up in wrasslin bs is what it sounds like to me. Sorry, I'm just not going to get worked up over some stupid WWE pet tricks that have bad timing to them. Wrestling is one of the last things I'm going to let genuinely offend me in any way, shape or form.

 

The Undertaker did not get decpitated. He got choked out and at no point did anyone bring out a sword or an axe to chop his head off like the *real* terrorists did in their video. The two things just aren't in the same ball park.

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

So, in other words, an angle is only offensive if they mock an incident overtly and almost identically? Subtlely alluding to or doing something similar is fair game and inoffensive because hey, they didn't ACTUALLY decapitate Undertaker or anything.

 

I can't even be bothered.

 

Fuckin' unbelievable.

[Guest Sass]

You're too caught up in the world of wrestling and how what Hassan did makes sense in McMahonland to even begin to comprehend why those of us who live in the real world would find not what they did, but HOW they did it so freakin' disgusting.

Pot, kettle, black.

 

Get a grip on yourself man. Sheesh.

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

I have no idea what that even means. And I don't care. You're dumb.

[Guest Sass]

I have no idea what that even means. And I don't care. You're dumb.

Dumb?

 

What, are we in 3rd grade now?

 

Read a book and calm down.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

CJ, you're too caught up in wrasslin bs is what it sounds like to me.  Sorry, I'm just not going to get worked up over some stupid WWE pet tricks that have bad timing to them.  Wrestling is one of the last things I'm going to let genuinely offend me in any way, shape or form.  

 

The Undertaker did not get decpitated.  He got choked out and at no point did anyone bring out a sword or an axe to chop his head off like the *real* terrorists did in their video.  The two things just aren't in the same ball park.

The fact you don't think they are in the same ball park astounds me. Just because you don't find it offensive, doesn't mean it isn't. I don't find two men kissing offensive, others do. I don't find not wearing a headscarf offensive, others do.

 

The fact you are trying to play this off as a regular beatdown angle when it clearly was set up to make light of terrorist executions and aired on the same day as an actual terrorist attack... come on man, you are saying we are caught up in the wrestling BS? My friend's sister is in fucking hospital, I'll ask her how inoffensive it is once she's out and inform her it aired the day she got fucking glass in her face due to an actual terrorist attack. I somehow doubt she'll go "that's perfectly acceptable as it is wrestling and xenophobic steretypes and the angles that perpetuate them are a time test tradition of the business".