Colt Cabana

[S.L.L.]

I really like Colt when he's on, but that's not all that often. I dug his comedy act in the past, but Colt was usually a silly character working around serious wrestlers, which made that stuff stand out. Since then, there seems to have been something of a comedy wrestler explosion, and while I'd still take Colt over the majority of the CHIKARA roster, he doesn't stand out from the pack like he used to. Ideally, this would be when he starts making with the great matches more often to counteract that, but he doesn't, so he's just kinda there.

[Dylan Waco]

He built up a lot of bad will with me when he decided to work a Three Stooges match with Finlay. He also underperformed v. Dave Taylor

[soup23]

Oh that Dave Taylor match in ROH at WM weekend was a complete piece of shit and waste of time for everyone involved.

[jpchicago23]

Man i never saw that match but im glad i didnt now. On paper that sounds like a dream match if Colt brought it. That sucks to hear

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I've never seen the guy wrestle but I listen to his podcast if he ever has someone on that I care about. Colt is entertaining enough on his own -- and I could see it being a great night if I ever bought him a drink and he started telling wrestling stories -- but I wish he did a better job interviewing his guests. I'm not looking for Bob Costas vs. Jerry Sandusky type of questioning, but I hate how most people conducting interviews w/ wrestlers just throw out general stuff and let the wrestler ramble on forever. A few specific questions and interjecting with some follow-ups every now and then would be nice.

[jpchicago23]

yea his used to be my favorite podcast but i'm starting to like MLW and P2B more now. Konnan usually doesnt hold back with the questions and specifically tells people not to blue ball the audience.

[Mini Bennett]

I think there is a reason Santino is on the WWE roster and remains one of the most over guys in the company at live events, while Cabana is a guy that is a beloved indie dude, who works an "aw shucks" nice guy gimmick.

Seems like apples and oranges. Both comedy guys, but different acts altogether.

 

 

But Santino was a guy who was supposedly a headache in developmental. He's a guy who debuted with a shooter gimmick. He's a guy who was given an initially hot gimmick, but one that was not intended to last as anything meaningful. He's a guy with distractingly absurd tattoos. He's a guy with a completely disposable gimmick by WWE standards. He's a guy who was not close friends with any guys of note on the roster when he started. And yet here he is, several years into a run that has seen him work all over the mid-card, hold the tag titles, have amusing interactions with Austin and The Rock, nearly "win" the Royal Rumble, et. He can job a thousand times and it never seems to hurt him. He stays over.

I agree for the most part. I can understand why someone wouldn't think Santino's work holds up particularly well against Colt, though. Santino was horrendous for the better part of his time in the company and only really came around during his team with Kozlov (oddly) a couple of years ago. At this point I'd take Santino, but Colt Cabana was a lot better than Santino for a very long time.

 

is a guy who publicly says that he just wanted to get his Honky Tonk Man gimmick in the WWE, so he could coast on it for years.

You're completely twisting what he said. God forbid a Pro Wrestler wants to milk every ounce out of what he worked over a decade for.

 

 

Cabana is a relatively big guy, working comedic schtick spots and "look at me I collect tapes" WoS spots. He is a guy who corrects Robert Gibson in developmental. Guy who tells the trainers he knows more than them because he's watched more tapes

Where did you get this info from? Seriously not a dig, just curious.

 

guy who's look does not really match his working style or WWE fetish

You act like this is Mark Henry doing the spots he does. If we're criticizing Cabana for the style he works then we need to do it for a ridiculous amount of really talented people who were more or less the same size as Cabana or even bigger.

 

As far as "the look" thing goes, hey Dusty Rhodes and whole slew of guys over the past 30 years who make Cabana look like Bruno by comparison.

 

 

guy who aspires to be comedic mid-carder....

The "if you aren't in wrestling to be WWE Champion then you shouldn't be here" mindset is fucking ludicrous.

 

Meanwhile Cabana couldn't have a good squash match with Umaga a guy who was highly credible and made for the squash match.

Botching a spot is not in anyway shape or form the equivalent of having a bad match.

 

The only time WWE gave Colt a halfway reasonable amount of time on television was his debut against Brian Kendrick, in which I think he looked pretty good by the way (especially with only being allotted like 3 minutes).

[Dylan Waco]

How am I twisting what Cabana said? I have heard him say the HTM thing more than once. His point seemed to be he would like one run with a memorable gimmick that he could ride and milk forever. I'm not criticizing that as to some degree that is sound strategy. But it's also not the sort of thing I would be public about if I were a wrestler, particular a wrestler in or aspiring to get into WWE.

 

Gibson thing comes from Cabana himself, I think on Bix's old podcast.

 

The point about Cabana's look/how he works isn't that there is a uniform way you have to work for a look (though I don't want to see Jocephus Brody doing hilo's), but that he comedy stuff is extremely limiting and he doesn't need to go that route because his look doesn't necessitate it. He isn't Grizzly Redwood. I'm aware that Cabana does more than just schtick, but it seems like he is far more interested in working that way than any other way unless he is in a very specific feud.

 

Santino is a guy who was given a shooter gimmick in developmental, debuted as a fan out of the crowd winning in fluke, and is now super charismatic comedy guy. Cabana is a guy who watched tons of tapes, worked super indies with his friends and his take away seems to have been "I need to pigeonhole myself as a guy who does Three Stooges spots and smiles a lot." From the studio.....apartment is not a good act if you want to become a big time star, it is a good act if you want to sell yourself to indie fans which he is pretty good at. I like The Blue Meanie fine, but there is a reason he didn't stay in the WWE very long.

 

Also I don't hate the Taylor match I just thought it was really disappointing.

[Mini Bennett]

The point about Cabana's look/how he works isn't that there is a uniform way you have to work for a look (though I don't want to see Jocephus Brody doing hilo's), but that he comedy stuff is extremely limiting and he doesn't need to go that route because his look doesn't necessitate it. He isn't Grizzly Redwood. I'm aware that Cabana does more than just schtick, but it seems like he is far more interested in working that way than any other way unless he is in a very specific feud.

If WWE did rehire Colt (Punk kind of hinted at it a few months ago), then I highly doubt he'd be working that way 90% of the time.

 

 

Santino is a guy who was given a shooter gimmick in developmental, debuted as a fan out of the crowd winning in fluke, and is now super charismatic comedy guy. Cabana is a guy who watched tons of tapes, worked super indies with his friends and his take away seems to have been "I need to pigeonhole myself as a guy who does Three Stooges spots and smiles a lot." From the studio.....apartment is not a good act if you want to become a big time star, it is a good act if you want to sell yourself to indie fans which he is pretty good at. I like The Blue Meanie fine, but there is a reason he didn't stay in the WWE very long.

Outside of salary, how is Santino any less pigeon-holed than Colt? Colt's gone the road he has because he's more or less been forced to under the circumstances. If he were still under the WWE umbrella, things would be very, very different for him. He'd be marketed entirely differently, and IMO successfully if given the opportunity.

 

Colt's done just about as a good a pro wrestler could possibly do without actually being officially signed anywhere. In fact, I'd say he's in a far better spot than say, Chris Masters or Shelton Benjamin. The Punk thing helped, but it's not like anyone (or anywhere, for that matter) have been able to capetilize on the buzz given to them that Colt did. I don't see how that could be viewed as a negative by WWE.

 

I'm sorry, I just really don't see how Cabana and Meanie are comparable. Colt's got far more appeal on a bigger stage, although it's admittedly limited.

[Dylan Waco]

I know for a fact that Masters and Benjamin have higher guarantees than Cabana and command more money. It's that HTM thing come to life. Colt is a better self marketer and his "aw shucks, I'm a nice fella" act is a good spin on Sheamus-like, cringeworthy, backslapping, babyfaces. As a hipster caricature of a "good dude" - especially one who is self deprecating - he is going to appeal to indie fans, particularly DIY fetishist, which is something I admittedly cop to being even if I don't give a fuck about Cabana.

 

The point is not that Cabana is pigeonholed and Santino isn't. The point is that Santino didn't say "fuck you, I want to do my shooter gimmick" or "fuck you I want to be Colin Delaney/Mikey Whipwreck forever." He went with the flow. I'm not saying Cabana didn't do that in the WWE - though there are reasons to believe he may not have - but I do think Cabana has pigeonholed himself to a large degree on the indie scene and I don't think that's the best way to get back into the WWE assuming that is his goal (and I've been told it is). Yes I realize he has things like the Pearce feud (which I'm not sure was that big a deal, but I'll play along), but by and large when people I know think of Cabana they largely think "comedy guy." I get why he has embraced that given where he is now. Not sure that it's a good idea going forward. Not sure he comes across as a guy who would be willing to drop comedy routine, to become a Dean Malenko master of a thousand hold types (which he is theoretically capable of) or a bruising Ole Anderson type (less sure he could pull off, but not impossible).

 

The WWE may bring him back because they are A. more interested in indie guys and B. he has the right friends. But I am very skeptical about how long he would last or how much value he can have if he's a guy who's going to call his developmental trainers idiots and wants to work in a fashion very similar to a guy they already have who is really good at what he does.

 

I like Meanie. There is no question that Cabana is more talented then him. He may even have more appeal, though it's worth noting that a huge online petition saved Meanie's job at one point. But Cabana doesn't have Punk talent or Bryan talent either.

[Bix]

This is a complete aside but I would guess that the Internet petition saved Meanie's job because it was when Internet petitions were just starting to become a thing. Internet petitions haven't really worked for anything since then unless you count stopping SOPA.

[Bix]

As for Cabana, to me the comedy stuff is relatively pragmatic right now. Workrate Indy wrestling has been pretty barren for a while now, in large part because of all of his contemporaries being signed. Yeah, I agree he should probably be working straighter matches against Finlay or Taylor, but otherwise he stands out more as comedy guy with a following whose appeal WWE doesn't get than workrate guy whose appeal WWE doesn't get because he's built his act around WOS inspired matwork. It certainly seems like he has a much more busy and varied slate of bookings than someone like Davey Richards, for lack of an especially good example in 2013.

[S.L.L.]

It should be noted that, in some respects, Colt might be hurt by not being pigeonholed enough.

 

Earlier in the thread, Shoe said:

 

Now I went to a WWE house show recently and we got a Brodus Clay match, and later a Santino bout. That was overboard on the comedy matches.

You could argue that having Santino and Brodus on the same roster at the same time is overdoing it on the comedy front. I wouldn't make that argument, but it's an argument that can definitely be made. But even if they provide excessive comedy, they don't provide redundant comedy. Santino's "funny Italian stereotype with silly finisher" gimmick is an appreciably different comedy act from Brodus' "funny dancing fat guy of vague ethnicity" gimmick. They have specific routines that make them both unique, and by extension, more valuable to WWE than they otherwise would be.

 

Colt Cabana's gimmick is basically just "funny guy". Not even really a specific type of funny guy. Just "funny guy". I guess you could argue "funny guy who does World of Sport spots", but Santino has been presented as a deceptively athletic guy who can surprise even high-ranking superstars, and Brodus as a hard-hitting big man who didn't back down from the Show when Show was at his most vicious, so I don't know that "this guy can go in the ring" is a meaningful distinction for Colt next to those two guys unless he gets a much, much bigger push than I'd really expect him to get in WWE, which just leaves him as "funny guy".

 

When you have both "funny Italian stereotype with silly finisher" and "funny dancing fat guy of vague ethnicity", I'm not sure what demand there would be for "funny guy". I mean, that's not even really a unique trait on the indies anymore, nevermind WWE. I could throw a penny at any random indy and hit a few shitty Chuck Taylor clones...or, worse yet, I could hit Chuck Taylor. Colt is certainly better than those guys, but I'd argue his selling points in 2013 just don't mean as much as they used to. I know we all joke about WWE wanting him to Jew it up more in his last run there, but honestly, if he wants to get rehired and still work a comedy gimmick, it might not be the worst idea in the world to repackage him with a wrestling Rodney Dangerfield gimmick, or something like that. Colt doing Caddyshack/Back to School "funny Jew who's wealthy but still relates to the common man" actually feels like an act that Cabana could do well and get over with. If he's willing to not be billed from Chicago, Colt as Florida-based real estate magnate who sold a summer home to aristocratic British wrestlers who taught him their style in appreciation gets most of his current pluses in while making his gimmick more salable. And then you could introduce him with vignettes advertising Goldman Real Estate, featuring glowing testimonials from William Regal. I don't know where you go from that, but I think once you get Regal involved, it sort of justifies itself.

[anarchistxx]

I'm not a massive fan if Colt or anything, but a lot of what is being said here seems a bit off.

 

Santino is a fucking horrible worker, for a start, the worst type of 'comedy' where everything is obvious and oversold and pretty embarrassing if a non-wrestling-fan walked into the room. He has a terrible look, too. Judging it on ring work Colt is a million times better than him - can anyone name a memorable Santino match? Colt had a lot of good matches on the indies in different styles.

 

I think the problem with Cabana is that his comedy stuff gets old real quick - he is like a relic of the touring days where you could work the same match on house shows in different cities and territories. Or a stand up comedian who does the same act every night across the country. Once everything is televised and on DVD you have to start getting a bit more creative. He certainly peaked from 2003 to 2006 when he was working with all his buddies and ROH was a genuinely hot promotion. In recent years he has seemed very jaded and washed up. The last time I remember having a lot of fun watching him was as Matt Classic in Wrestling Society X, that gimmick and promotion had legs I thought if it was done a bit better.

 

guy who aspires to be comedic mid-carder....

This point riles me up a little. More people should aspire to be comedic mid-carders, to be strong, unique, over characters who didn't necessarily need a world title run. For a start it lessens this bullshit booking now, where someone comes in, gets a mega-push, either gets hot-shotted a world title or is jobbing out within a few months becaise their character has nowhere to go.

 

You look at the WWF roster in 2000 when the product was good and the ratings were huge. Scotty '2' Hotty, Grandmaster Sexay, Crash Holly, Kaientai, Dudley Boyz, Val Venis, even guys like Edge & Christian - all were fun, entertaining midcarders who were way down from the main event scene. There was a hierachy, and it made the top guys look better. These days it seems like everyone is either on the upper level or a total jobber, there is no in-between. There is no stricture or pacing to the shows. They have World Title matches opening shows, for fucks sake. If anything what they need most is guys like Colt, fun acts to put on early on the card and get the crowd going.

 

The style Colt works he is never going to be the main guy of a company - why shouldn't he be reconciled with that and aim for something achievable?

 

The good thing about Colt is that he can work a character that isn't exclusively comedy, so you get the entertaining stuff but he's also capable of segueing into more serious matches and a workrate style. I think he offers a lot to a company like WWE, but the ship has long sailed for him. He needed to strike when he was still relatively hot.

[Dylan Waco]

Publicly aspiring to be a comedy mid-cad act is not going to win you points with Vince and the gang. Whether or not that is right or wrong is irrelevant to him getting back into the big leagues and lasting there.

 

On Santino he's perfectly serviceable in his role and there was a period last year where he was putting on enjoyable performances as the underdog survivor. I wouldn't tout him as some sort of incredible worker, but I don't think he's even close to awful. More importantly every non-wrestling fan I know that has caught his act has loved it, to the point where I have non-wrestling fan friends who will go out of their way to watch bits of his on youtube if my wife talks them up as she occasionally does. And Cabana's routine is easily as "bad" as Santino's at this point.

[anarchistxx]

Publicly aspiring to be a comedy mid-cad act is not going to win you points with Vince and the gang.

That isn't what we're discussing here, though, it it? We're discussing Colt as a worker. You seem to be letting your distaste for his personality and attitude take over, most of your posts have been about what he is like outside of the ring.

 

I don't care whether it will win him points with Vince - I simply think that wrestling would be more entertaining as a whole if there was more of a hierachy, if more people came in with the intention of creating fun, over characters who fitted nicely in the mid-card. Sure as hell more entertaining than a ton of Dolph Ziggler/Jack Swagger clones.

 

On Santino he's perfectly serviceable in his role and there was a period last year where he was putting on enjoyable performances as the underdog survivor.

He's alright at what he does but I find a lot of it pretty embarrassing. Just too unsubtle and over the top and so obvious in the 'humour'.

 

And Cabana's routine is easily as "bad" as Santino's at this point.

Maybe, I've not watched him in a while. Cabana in 2004/2005 is way, way better than Santino in 2013 for my money.

[jpchicago23]

Yea its not even close. If its in ring talent alone its colt in a landslide.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I have to say, though I hate Santino and don't find him funny at all, my wrestling-hating wife calls him her favourite, just because he's "funny and silly". Take that for whatever it's worth.

[Ricky Jackson]

There is just something about Santino that appeals to women. In all the years my wife has put up with me watching wrestling in her presence, Santino and Carlito are the only guys she has cared about.

[Dylan Waco]

That isn't what we're discussing here, though, it it? We're discussing Colt as a worker.

It's what I've been discussing from the jump

[Ryan Faulconer]

Cabana played a different version of himself in the friendship/feud with Jimmy Jacobs and Lacey and in most of his feuds over the past decade. He always had great brawls with Homicide, Pearce, Prophecy, Jacobs, Steen, Corino or whoever else. They are all better than average brawlers so maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe Cabana just knows how to work that kind of match in addition to the role that he seems pigeonholed in.

 

I think it is only over the past year that Cabana hasn't put out one or many crazy brawls/street fights. If it happened more recently (2012-13) then it stands in his favour that much more as someone more versatile than a guy who supposedly just wants to do comedy and collect his cheque.

 

Santino is not what I consider to be funny so I can't really make any arguments for his case. This is a thread about Colt Cabana anyway.

 

.

[Slasher]

Wait, you mean you adult males here don't find the constant euphemisms to his penis to be a funny Santino gimmick?

[Ricky Jackson]

There is just something about Santino that appeals to women. In all the years my wife has put up with me watching wrestling in her presence, Santino and Carlito are the only guys she has cared about.

Funny, but now I can add Cabana to this list, as my wife fell in love with him at the ECCW show we went to last Saturday.

[Smack2k]

Dylan, how do you feel about his work in his 10 matches vs. Pearce for the NWA Title from 2010 - 2012?

 

I really enjoyed those matches myself, the 6 I have seen....really thought the 7 Levels of Hate matches were really good and he wasnt comedic Colt in those...althougth he did steal half of Shane Douglas' NWA Title win / throwdown promo from 94 at the end of match 7 when they abandon the title...

[efrim]

I've lived around Chicago my whole life, and I'll be honest, we have a little brother syndrome next to New York and LA that makes us pretty rabid about supporting guys that rep us. I've seen Cabana wrestle a few times locally now, and the love for him here is pretty off the charts. Its the kind of crowd reaction you want to get swept up in - but I've been unable to.

 

I can't speak very much to his ROH or IWA-MS days, but in the last couple years he strikes me as a fairly jaded, lazy performer. I'm a Chikara fan and I dig good comedy wrestling, but I've never found Colt's shtick to be all that funny or inventive. He bugs me, because seeing him up close he really looks like a guy who isn't even close to giving it his all. I really enjoy guys like Archibald Peck that wrestle comedy but stay inventive and work hard either in the ring or at completely inhabiting a character. My opinion is that Colt uses comedy wrestling as an excuse to do as little as possible. And his "character" is basically just himself smirking at the proceedings constantly. He's been very open about reigning in his work rate for health reasons, but there's a big difference between reigning it in and half-assing it.