Is NJPW the best puro product currently?

[Ray]

NJPW was great well before Meltzer started hyping it again. They've been putting out the same excellent product since 2007. They just have iPPVs now.

 

I have them at #1 by a gigantic margin.

[rovert]

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Dave starts a buzz and it trickles down. That's not to say people don't like what they see, but I see no reason to believe that Dave isn't the catalyst for a lot of the NJPW love we see today. That's also not to say people just like it to go along with Dave - Dave (and others) pimp it, people like it. Nothing wrong with that, even if I think NJPW is extremely overrated

Oh I agree.

 

But if anything at the very, very least Meltzer was about a year slow in giving New Japan the more than one paragraph in the Observer treatment.

[KrisZ]

I also remember the days when Dave was the reason why New Japan wasn't getting any love because he was pimping NOAH.

[rzombie1988]

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Dave starts a buzz and it trickles down. That's not to say people don't like what they see, but I see no reason to believe that Dave isn't the catalyst for a lot of the NJPW love we see today. That's also not to say people just like it to go along with Dave - Dave (and others) pimp it, people like it. Nothing wrong with that, even if I think NJPW is extremely overrated

Yeah, this is what I'm saying. Dave pimps it, people are watching it and actually enjoying it themselves and NOT being sheep.

[rzombie1988]

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Dave starts a buzz and it trickles down. That's not to say people don't like what they see, but I see no reason to believe that Dave isn't the catalyst for a lot of the NJPW love we see today. That's also not to say people just like it to go along with Dave - Dave (and others) pimp it, people like it. Nothing wrong with that, even if I think NJPW is extremely overrated

EDIT - FF + PWO =

[rzombie1988]

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Dave starts a buzz and it trickles down. That's not to say people don't like what they see, but I see no reason to believe that Dave isn't the catalyst for a lot of the NJPW love we see today. That's also not to say people just like it to go along with Dave - Dave (and others) pimp it, people like it. Nothing wrong with that, even if I think NJPW is extremely overrated

EDIT - FF + PWO =

[Loss]

Someone signed up to Twitter last night with sole purpose to get me to incite a PWO vs F4W gang war.

There's no agenda here. This has nothing to do with Dave Meltzer or message board wars, and I wish Dave hadn't even been brought into the conversation. I wasn't sure if I would like the other New Japan, so I picked something that based on the description sounded right up my alley, because I was actually looking to be positive. I didn't care for it, but I'm not going to indict all of New Japan as awful based on watching one match that was praised that I didn't like either. People are silly.

[Sean Liska]

Someone signed up to Twitter last night with sole purpose to get me to incite a PWO vs F4W gang war.

There's no agenda here. This has nothing to do with Dave Meltzer or message board wars, and I wish Dave hadn't even been brought into the conversation. I wasn't sure if I would like the other New Japan, so I picked something that based on the description sounded right up my alley, because I was actually looking to be positive. I didn't care for it, but I'm not going to indict all of New Japan as awful based on watching one match that was praised that I didn't like either. People are silly.

 

I think people don't get to watch my favorite NJPW stuff because they're going off of matches pimped by Meltzer, which aren't often the smartest worked matches.

 

Here's a quick match I remember enjoying - Toru Yano vs. Okada in a tourney match for an IWGP title shot. Yano is a cult undercard heel, known for his cheating and brawling. Okada is one of the top two guys in the company and a huge favorite in the match. Yano uses his heelish tactics to try to steal a win, and the crowd eats it up. It's not a MOTY, just a fun match with two established characters.

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyg3uh_ka...=2#.UdrfevnFV1k

 

And if you want a better Shibata match, this tag was pretty great.

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xytmiw_yu...=2#.UdriwPnFV1k

[rovert]

Someone signed up to Twitter last night with sole purpose to get me to incite a PWO vs F4W gang war.

There's no agenda here. This has nothing to do with Dave Meltzer or message board wars, and I wish Dave hadn't even been brought into the conversation. I wasn't sure if I would like the other New Japan, so I picked something that based on the description sounded right up my alley, because I was actually looking to be positive. I didn't care for it, but I'm not going to indict all of New Japan as awful based on watching one match that was praised that I didn't like either. People are silly.

 

I don't think there is agenda. People's likes and dislikes are very well elaborated on here. Wasn't crazy about Shibata and Goto myself beyond it was a hell of a thing to watch live with the dropkick in the corner and THAT headbutt opening up the possibly I might be witnessing a fatality. I can see why you would have the issues you would given the not so cerebral construction of match and given the expectations you were given.

 

No way in hell was it as good as Cena-Brock on a visceral basis.

[tim]

I watched Goto/Shibata because the descriptions of the match intrigued me. I thought it was garbage. The repeated no selling of the belly-to-back suplexes annoyed the fuck out of me, not to mention that I don't expect to see matches heralded for their "realism" that contain Russian legsweeps, lariats and Irish whips. Those things happening in a match aren't bad on their own, but it just shows a major disconnect from what I was expecting and how the match was described in the WON. It made me expect a RINGS-style match with sprinkles of pro-style moves mixed in. All the slapping during the figure four spot really makes the hold itself seem unimportant, and I HATE slugfests where they seem to just be waiting to deliver the next shot instead of individually selling each shot as something that hurts. Goto also has some really crappy, Edge-looking offense like that twirly-whatever thing that led to the nearfall around the 13-minute mark. But hey, the kicks were stiff. The finishing sequence didn't really build in a way where it was clear Shibata had any momentum. It was just two guys exchanging moves with none of them having much consequence, and then there was a finish. Not sure what made that last kick so devastating when they were so prevalent all the way through the match. I went in wanting to like this a lot, but I didn't at all.

I'm really not at all an NJPW fan and agree that a lot of modern puro is awful, but I just watched this match and actually really liked it. Maybe it helped that instead of coming in hearing reviews of it being some sort of ultra-realistic affair (it's definitely not) I came in having heard this and having someone on another forum imply I might like it.

 

A few of these criticisms I agree with:

- The back suplex spot wasn't to my liking, although they did sell the damage afterward; which was a theme in the match I did appreciated -- I though they did a good job selling, I guess, "accumulated damage" right after brief sprints of heavy striking. Like how in the beginning Shibata gets blitzed by Goto but then takes advantage with a flurry of kicks and afterwards holds his head and reclines against the ropes. Stuff like that happened a lot.

 

- The fanciful Edge-tier MOVEZ. Probably my biggest pet peeve in wrestling. Like the mentioned Goto spinning thing and Shibata's DVD into the back breaker. No question that stuff is awful.

 

HOWEVER: I thought the selling of the strikes was quite good. Again, there were extended flurries of striking but they usually sold the damage right afterward, even whoever had won the exchange. The figure four leg lock I though was cool because of the way Shibata held Goto's foot in place for it. Definitely doesn't make it some kind of realistic quasi-shoot affair but for the match it was I think it added a nice touch. Shibata had clearly built up momentum toward the end: he had hit a DVD, the aforementioned shitty DVD-into-backbreaker thing and then had Goto in a sleeper. Goto was almost out in the sleeper but Shibata broke it off with Sibata ostensibly half conscious and then delivered the running kick. I really liked that ending and it seemed perfectly reasonable and not out of nowhere to me. Plus there were cool things in the match like Goto ducking Shibata's swift kick through the ropes in the beginning, Shibata using Goto's hair for the leg sweep, etc. Hell, the short length could probably be construed as "selling" in a way considering how long major NJ matches are wont to go. I hate using "fighting spirit" as an excuse for blatant no selling, but really though this match was a pretty good example of legit "delayed selling" stuff.

 

With such a short match those criticisms I agree with weight fairly heavily on it but I still thought it was a cool match and would recommend people to check it out even if you're not a fan of Japanese wrestling these days. I was really shocked that I like it.

[rovert]

New Japanese Audio Wrestling episode

 

http://fightnetwork.com/news/39845:july-ed...udio-wrestling/

 

Chris Charlton and WH Park return for the month of July with a look at the recent NJPW Kizuna Road iPPV, the announcement of a stacked G-1 Climax tournament, the new Wrestle-One promotion that Keiji Muto has launched and more.

[rzombie1988]

I reviewed the NJPW Kizuna Road iPPV here:

 

Overall thoughts: It was a good but overly long show. I think they could have cut half of a few matches and minutes off others to make this one better. Ishii/Suzuki, Shibata/Goto and Nakamura/Sombra were the matches of the night but on the other hand, Sakuraba/Nagata was one of the worst matches of the year and Tanahashi was completely wasted in his role. This is definitely worth a look for the matches I mentioned above but for the others, there were honestly better house show matches.

 

Some shots from the show:

[Dylan Waco]

How on earth could Nakamura v. Sombra be better than Sakuraba v. Nagata? Of course it's possible that we will just have a strong disagreement here, but Sak v. Nagata as one of the worst matches of the year? Fuck

[Death From Above]

Fuck I hate communication entirely through draining bandwidth with GIFs.

[Guest Staples]

Fuck I hate communication entirely through draining bandwidth with GIFs.

If you have Firefox, you can shut off images from loading.

[rzombie1988]

How on earth could Nakamura v. Sombra be better than Sakuraba v. Nagata? Of course it's possible that we will just have a strong disagreement here, but Sak v. Nagata as one of the worst matches of the year? Fuck

I hated that match so bad. They spent the whole match literally looking at each other without making any moves or doing any strikes. Sakuraba looked so absurdly bored by the whole match as well and didn't seem to care one bit. Did you see the match? I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

 

I loved Nakamura vs Sakuraba but it was nothing like it. I also do love shoot style, but what Sak does comes off of more of "play MMA".

[rzombie1988]

Fuck I hate communication entirely through draining bandwidth with GIFs.

Just press the X on your internet bar. It will stop loading the page and stop the pics/gifs.

[W2BTD]

How on earth could Nakamura v. Sombra be better than Sakuraba v. Nagata? Of course it's possible that we will just have a strong disagreement here, but Sak v. Nagata as one of the worst matches of the year? Fuck

I am patiently waiting for you to review the show, because even though I am well versed in your tastes, there is no way you will give a positive review to Sakuraba/Nagata. It was horrendous.

[Dylan Waco]

I already watched Sakuraba v. Nagata. I wouldn't call it horrendous, but it wasn't a good match. I actually thought Sakuraba did a few cool things, but Nagata did nothing interesting in the match and it came across as two guys who legit dislike each other, going out of their way to make the other not look good. I may review the whole show when/if I can find it.

[rovert]

I already watched Sakuraba v. Nagata. I wouldn't call it horrendous, but it wasn't a good match. I actually thought Sakuraba did a few cool things, but Nagata did nothing interesting in the match and it came across as two guys who legit dislike each other, going out of their way to make the other not look good. I may review the whole show when/if I can find it.

I am a big fan of New Japan but I wouldn't really push you to watch it. To me the show under delivered in this nigglely way. Very good show with fun stuff thought but it was a bit of an off night in contrast to Dominion where every/nearly every match exceeded expectations.

[Dylan Waco]

Seems like I should at least watch Ishii v. Suzuki which aside from Sak v. Suzuki is the closest thing to a "dream match" I can get out of NJPW. I also sort of want to see the tag with Tanahashi to see if I hate him any less in that setting, but that could probably be gathered from watching a couple of the house shows that have popped up in the last few days

[W2BTD]

Seems like I should at least watch Ishii v. Suzuki which aside from Sak v. Suzuki is the closest thing to a "dream match" I can get out of NJPW. I also sort of want to see the tag with Tanahashi to see if I hate him any less in that setting, but that could probably be gathered from watching a couple of the house shows that have popped up in the last few days

Don't bother with the tag if that's what you're looking for. He has a bad back, so he doesn't do much in those matches aside from his signature spots which you already know you don't like.

[rzombie1988]

I reviewed Day 1 of the 2013 G1 Climax here:

http://prowresblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/nj...esults-and.html

 

Overall thoughts: This was a really good show from top to bottom. There were tons of upsets and lots of matches that exceeded expectations. Kojima/Tanahashi was my MOTN and I really liked the UWFi Smith/Shibata match.

 

Some shots from the show:

[Dylan Waco]

What are the odds I would like any of that stuff? I'm not trolling, being serious here

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

I find myself being a fan of a lot of the wrestlers in this tournament. Naito, Smith, Devitt, Okada, Benjamin, Kojima and others. It's going to be a blast.