Smack2k is a Puro Dummy and Asks Questions

[Smack2k]

Do you know if its complete anywhere? Its 47:25 listed on YouTUbe...I am assuming that isnt full!

[Childs]

Yeah, it exists in full on Classics.

[Smack2k]

Excellent...thanks...I will hunt it down...

[jdw]

FUCKIN AWESOME...thanks so much...

 

OK, I am into 1990 now...

 

Misawa / Kawada / Kikuchi are a team of sorts, while Jumbo has Taue / Fuchi and others....Taue is a younger guy as well correct? What is his deal being with Jumbo? Or is he just one of the younger guys that stayed loyal to his ace or trainer or head guy, while Misawa became a rival and took Kawada and Kikuchi with him?

 

I am missing some others on both sides as well, I think?

Start with the premise that Tenryu left, took wrestlers, and as you'll see below took more. This left open the spot of the #2 native in the promotion opposite the #1 (Jumbo).

 

When Misawa took off the mask and went opposite of Jumbo, you'll find that Taue was the #3 guy on his side behind Kawada. He's in the Elbow match:

 

Misawa & Taue & Kobash vs Jumbo & Kabuki & Fuchi

 

Taue teams with Misawa's group those entire first two series after Tenryu leaves and Misawa moves up to be Jumbo's native rival.

 

It's Kobashi's role that's a little slow in developing into Misawa's group. He even teams with Jumbo in that first series, though by the Budokan he's a little more clearly Misawa-associated.

 

Jumbo's original side had Kabuki, Fuyuki and Fuchi. Fuyuki jumped after that first series to go join Tenryu. Jumbo's old partner Yatsu briefly joined the team, long enough to go over Misawa & Kawada and Misawa & Taue on back-to-back nights to open the second series, and get booked into challenging Gordy & Doc for the World Tag Titles... before he went AWOL... and eventually joined Tenryu. Mighty Inoue joined Jumbo's group and his role is preserved a bit on TV.

 

The second series sees Kikuchi join Misawa's group, setting up a junior rivalry with Fuchi.

 

The second series also see Kabuki getting the slot of Jumbo's top partner when Yatsu goes AWOL, with Baba believing he had an agreement with Kabuki to stay, so Jumbo & Kabuki win the World Tag Titles, having lifted them from Gordy & Doc. Kabuki promptly double crosses Baba by jumping to Tenryu's promotion.

 

At that point, there weren't any older heavyweight natives to move over into Jumbo's group to take the slot that Yatsu and/or Kabuki could have held. The more senior "younger" heavies that Baba might have been tempted to join Jumbo's group had already jumped: Shunji Takano and Shinichi Nakano. Neither were exactly Baba's favorites by that point in their careers, but they both had tagged with Jumbo a decent amount over the years as junior-junior partners, and Takano especially earlier that year popped up with Jumbo a pretty fair number of times. Just a guess that if Takano stayed, he would have gotten the spot due to seniority, being ahead of Taue and Kobashi on the pecking order, and being a good of a "fit" for Jumbo was Taue was at the time. But they went to SWS.

 

That left:

 

1. Jumbo

2. Misawa

3. Kawada

4. Taue

5. Kobashi

 

And:

 

1 vs 2 & 3 & 4 & 5

 

Someone was going to move, unless Baba went gaijin to pair with Jumbo (like Tenryu & Hansen) or brought someone in. Gaijin wasn't going to happen: Hansen & Spivey vs Gordy & Doc worked for Baba, and had the nice 1 & 4 vs 2 & 3 balance he liked. In turn, there was no one to bring in.

 

Taue. 1 & 4 vs 2 & 3 on the native side. Rather than Young vs Old, it gave Jumbo a protege. Kawada was too senior to Taue, imbalancing the groups. Kobashi was below Taue, which would have left Taue #3 on Misawa's side and imbalance on Jumbo's.

 

There was no angle. Taue didn't turn on Misawa or Kawada to end the prior series, which would be impossible because they didn't know Kabuki was leaving. Taue didn't hit Misawa over the head with a chair in the dojo between series. Jumbo didn't go to Taue's home and beg him to join hands. He simply became Jumbo's partner and started teaming with him on opening night of the next series.

 

Misawa & Kawada & Kobashi & Kikuchi vs Jumbo & Taue & Fuchi & Inoue

 

Almost there.

 

Ogawa missed all this fun because he'd been out with an elbow injury since January. He returned in the Giant Series in October, largely going the singles prelim route, but he did get into the feud in a six-man tag... with Misawa & Kawada opposite Jumbo & Fuchi & Inoue. In the Tag League series, quite a few singles matches against Kikuchi while tagging regularly with Fuchi. They're getting there. Except in the opening series of 1991, he's kind of wafting around, including teaming with Kikuchi a few times! By the second series of 1991, Ogawa is a member of Jumbo's group giving Kikuchi a peer rival in addition to the senior rival of Fuchi. We get the classic eight of the feud:

 

Jumbo & Taue & Fuchi & Ogawa vs Misawa & Kawada & Kobashi & Kikuchi

 

Mighty tags occassional with Jumbo's group here and there, but is phased down.

 

Anyway, it basically evolved from April 1990 to February 1991, most of it caused by people leaving and reacting to it rather than any grand plan.

[Smack2k]

Thanks for bringing the goodness again jdw...really appreciate the background....I have a much better understanding of Puro now in terms of angles or other "turns" that arent really a part of Puro due to the Japanese Culture and being all about respect and who the better man in the ring was...getting this background on the guys in the ring really enhances that and makes me fully ready to watch these series of matches..

 

You mentioned a "series" a few times and I have seen matches listed as "Date - "Insert Name Here" Series". What was the significance of each "series"? Did someone win each one and what did it mean?

 

Also, the full Choshu vs. Tsuruta 60 Min full match on Classics....are there commercials? Just curious as the version I have is 42+ Min with commercials cut out..curious if that is it or if there is a fully complete, no commercial version?

 

Thanks again

[Childs]

I know I've seen a full 60-minute version of Jumbo-Choshu, but I can't remember where if it's not on the Classics. Maybe on a commercial tape called Jumbo Legend? Or on the G+ Classics as opposed to Samurai?

 

EDIT: I checked and it looks like the version we watched when working on the '80s set was, in fact, from the Jumbo Legend comm. tape. Vol. 3, disc 1. There's some other cool stuff on there if you can track it down, like the interpromotional match with Rusher Kimura from 1976.

[Smack2k]

I know I've seen a full 60-minute version of Jumbo-Choshu, but I can't remember where if it's not on the Classics. Maybe on a commercial tape called Jumbo Legend? Or on the G+ Classics as opposed to Samurai?

 

EDIT: I checked and it looks like the version we watched when working on the '80s set was, in fact, from the Jumbo Legend comm. tape. Vol. 3, disc 1. There's some other cool stuff on there if you can track it down, like the interpromotional match with Rusher Kimura from 1976.

Thanks Childs...I will find it...

[jdw]

You mentioned a "series" a few times and I have seen matches listed as "Date - "Insert Name Here" Series".

The Japanese promotions work "series", with breaks in between them. This goes back to the 50s and JWA. They don't work every night of the year. I suspect that if we count up the dates worked by All Japan in 1990 it would be quite a bit less than JWA in say 1966, where they worked some longer series. I recall New Japan cutting back on their schedule in the early 90s, which they did by having several short "special" series like the G1 and the one in September.

 

All Japan's schedule in 1990 looked like this in basic form:

 

01/02/90 - 02/01/90: New Year Giant Series

02/21/90 - 03/06/90: Excite Series

03/24/90 - 04/19/90: Champion Carnival

05/14/90 - 06/08/90: Super Power Series

07/07/90 - 07/27/90: Summer Action Series

08/18/90 - 09/07/90: Summer Action Series II

09/29/90 - 10/27/90: October Giant Series

11/15/90 - 12/07/90: Real World Tag Team League

 

That's pretty much what they did the rest of the decade as well. The Excite and Super Power Series tended to be shorter series.

 

The big shows for All Japan were at Budokan. In 1990 they were in the Excite Series (03/06/90), the Super Power Series (06/08/90), the Summer Action Series II (09/01/90) and the Tag League (12/07/90). Over the course of the decade, All Japan added Budokans to the October Giant Series (1992 with Misawa vs Kawada), the Summer Action Series I (1993 with Misawa vs Kawada) and the Carnival (1994 with the Carny Final). They never added a Budokan to the New Year series.

 

The promotion also ran an occasional Fan Appreciation type shows at Korakuen Hall in between series, usually without Giajin. I believe the only one in 1990 was 06/30/90. Some years had more, such as 1992 having cards like that on 04/18/92, 04/19/92 & 09/17/92.

 

1990 was also an oddball as All Japan "hosted" a Tokyo Dome card with the WWF and New Japan 04/13/90. Part payback for All Japan sending talent to help New Japan's February Dome card, and also because Vince wanted to do it. Baba had so much fun doing this Dome card that he didn't do another one until 1998.

 

 

What was the significance of each "series"?

Mostly to break up the year. A couple are different:

 

Real World Tag Team League: This is the annual tag tourney, which started in 1977 (as the Open Tag League) and is still going on annually. Basically the climax to the year.

 

Champion Carnival: From 1973-82 and again from 1991 on, this is the annual singles tourney.

 

There was the singles Open League in Nov-Dec 1975 that the G+ Classics does a great job of capturing. That was a one off, and then the Tag League came along two years later.

 

The rest of the series... they've taken on some general fan focus:

 

Super Power Series: the June Budokan, which at times was the climax to the first half of the year. Some rather famous matches have headlined this.

 

October Giant Series: anniversary card gets mixed in here. Since the Tag League eats up the last series with no singles Title defenses, you typically got the final singles title defense here once it got a Budokan.

 

Did someone win each one and what did it mean?

Other than Carny and the Tag League, no... one doesn't win the series. Again, it just breaks up the year.

 

John

[jdw]

I know I've seen a full 60-minute version of Jumbo-Choshu, but I can't remember where if it's not on the Classics. Maybe on a commercial tape called Jumbo Legend? Or on the G+ Classics as opposed to Samurai?

 

EDIT: I checked and it looks like the version we watched when working on the '80s set was, in fact, from the Jumbo Legend comm. tape. Vol. 3, disc 1. There's some other cool stuff on there if you can track it down, like the interpromotional match with Rusher Kimura from 1976.

Thanks Childs...I will find it...

 

 

All Japan Classics on G+ (Volume 83)

1. Mil Mascaras vs Norio Honaga (Kyoto, 10/22/1985)

2. Terry & Dory Funk Jr vs Terry Gordy & Art Crews (Kyoto, 10/22/1985)

3. Ric Flair & Rick Martel vs Genchiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta (Kyoto, 10/22/1985)

4. Jumbo Tsuruta vs Riki Choshu (Osaka, 11/04/1985)

 

G+ Classics is a two hour show. It's likely the match was shown in full here.

 

The shorter, edited version on youtube is from original TV. Can usually tell by looking for (i) logo / no logo, (ii) picture quality. This one doesn't have a logo in the corner, where as G+ and Sammy do. The picture quality also have a "taken from 80s vcr" quality to it.

[Smack2k]

Hopefully someone could verify that, if its full on that version or not?

[rainmakerrtv]

I picked up the Misawa / Kawada feud comp in a trade a few years ago as an add-in. It just sat in a pile for a while...after reading this and other reports / podcasts....I am pretty psyched to look into it....but getting through the 80's first.

If it is the same comp I have, you are in for a real treat. My favorite comps are the ones that tell a story, and that one does a good job telling the story as well as having a lot of hot matches.

[Smack2k]

Yeah, that is the one.....looks great

 

OK, NJPW 1990 - 1996 Questions

 

1. What were the feature match-ups (whether good or bad in ring) from each year for singles and tag?

 

2. Any recommended MUST SEE singles or tags from this era?

 

Thanks...

[Childs]

That is one where I strongly suggest you read through the yearbook threads and get a sense of what people liked and didn't like. A few highlights for me:

 

* The WAR/NJ feud, which went from late '92 to early '94 and climaxed with tremendous singles matches between Hashimoto and Tenryu on 6/17/93, 8/8/93 and 2/17/94. But really, Tenryu vs. anybody in New Japan, singles or tag, is worth watching.

 

* The Liger/Sano juniors feud, which started in '89 and ended with a classic on 1/31/90. Just great action and heat in all their matches.

 

* Liger vs. Otani in '96-'97, probably the greatest version of Liger as junior ace vs. young guy on the rise. Their 3/17/96 and 2/9/97 matches are classics.

 

* Rise of the Hashimoto/Mutoh/Chono generation of heavyweights. You start to see this with the Hash/Choshu singles matches in '89 and '90 and the 11/1/90 heavyweight tag. But you must check out the '91 G-1 Climax tourney, which features great matches involving all three and climaxes with a brilliant final between Chono and Mutoh.

 

* The 4/16/94 Super J Cup, often cited as a puro gateway drug. Lots of action and a wide variety of wrestlers, some of whom you'll recognize.

 

* The 1/4 Dome shows. These aren't always great, especially for juniors. But it's a cool setting for a big spectacle match, like the '96 showdown between Inoki and Vader.

[Smack2k]

That is one where I strongly suggest you read through the yearbook threads and get a sense of what people liked and didn't like. A few highlights for me:

 

* The WAR/NJ feud, which went from late '92 to early '94 and climaxed with tremendous singles matches between Hashimoto and Tenryu on 6/17/93, 8/8/93 and 2/17/94. But really, Tenryu vs. anybody in New Japan, singles or tag, is worth watching.

 

* The Liger/Sano juniors feud, which started in '89 and ended with a classic on 1/31/90. Just great action and heat in all their matches.

 

* Liger vs. Otani in '96-'97, probably the greatest version of Liger as junior ace vs. young guy on the rise. Their 3/17/96 and 2/9/97 matches are classics.

 

* Rise of the Hashimoto/Mutoh/Chono generation of heavyweights. You start to see this with the Hash/Choshu singles matches in '89 and '90 and the 11/1/90 heavyweight tag. But you must check out the '91 G-1 Climax tourney, which features great matches involving all three and climaxes with a brilliant final between Chono and Mutoh.

 

* The 4/16/94 Super J Cup, often cited as a puro gateway drug. Lots of action and a wide variety of wrestlers, some of whom you'll recognize.

 

* The 1/4 Dome shows. These aren't always great, especially for juniors. But it's a cool setting for a big spectacle match, like the '96 showdown between Inoki and Vader.

 

As much as I LOVE those yearbooks, for this Puro stuff, I want to go into it with no bias or negativity or expecting too much so I am trying not to ready the PURO stuff....but I will use the books to see matches as well to get an idea....thanks Childs.

[Loss]

If you want to go in without any preconceptions, you may want to look at the matchlists and ignore the comments. Just a thought.

[Log]

Ditch's sites have some nice write-ups for matches, too. They can help give you a little backstory.

[Smack2k]

If you want to go in without any preconceptions, you may want to look at the matchlists and ignore the comments. Just a thought.

Yeah, I thought that to right after I clicked Add Reply!!