dawho5 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 So while I was going over some unrelated stuff in my head, I recalled my biggest gripe with modern puro. There are too many damn strike exchanges. I love the majority of 90s All Japan I have seen. Maybe it's just that I've only been exposed to the better workers who knew how to keep their egos and their in-ring stuff in check so they didn't go way too long exchanging elbows and slaps. Anyway, most post-2000 puro I have seen, regardless of if the workers involved could pull off the strike exchanges well, involves at least one. Hell, KENTA vs. Sugiura from 2013 seemed like a 20+ minute strike exchange with a few wrestling moves thrown in for good measure. I always thought it functioned best as a transition or a tease of one. But this was in matches between workers who were known for their stiff strikes and smart use of them. I suppose once it ends up becoming a staple of the majority of Japanese wrestling styles, you get a lot of workers who just don't understand how to use the strike exchange to move the match forward, not just for the sake of having one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think it's less bad now than it was when every match had to have your Kobashi spot (or equivalent) of guys just standing there taking turns chopping away at each other. There is still far too much of it, and I agree that a lot of the guys who bust it out regularly now have no clue how to incorporate it into a match, but it feels slightly less common and annoying than it used to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Yeah, it's a lot of aping of the guys who actually had a "fighting spirit" gimmick and now everyone's trying to do it. Like anything else in wrestling, once a lot of wrestlers are doing something that was once unique, it becomes meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Good exchanges involve mixing it up and ramping up selling. Bad exchanges involve doing the same strike endlessly and nobody selling until they decide to sell. It's the same with the use of highspots: selling and mental effort are more important than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drokk Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Bad exchanges involve doing the same strike endlessly and nobody selling until they decide to sell. Yes, thank you. How does it make sense that someone can take six elbows to the jaw and not even budge but two minutes later a single elbow lays them out? While we're at it, does anyone have an address where I can send my complaint about how people slap their legs every time they throw a head kick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I kind of love the leg slapping when throwing a kick. I also like Bret Hart stomping when punching though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 You're in a fight and have just hit the other guy. For your next move do you: A - Hit him again. B - Stand there and invite him to hit you back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Yeah. That's why I wasn't nearly as big a fan of the Shibata matches as much consensus seemed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 You're in a fight and have just hit the other guy. For your next move do you: A - Hit him again. B - Stand there and invite him to hit you back. Depends on the hit. I think trading chops and purposefully letting the other guy hit you (and then you hit him) is fine when you're doing a "let's see who's manlier" spot, especially early on. People usually don't bump around for chops/slaps like that. If they do, it's probably later on when they're exhausted or when they're coming off the ropes or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheGreatPuma Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 So while I was going over some unrelated stuff in my head, I recalled my biggest gripe with modern puro. There are too many damn strike exchanges. I love the majority of 90s All Japan I have seen. Maybe it's just that I've only been exposed to the better workers who knew how to keep their egos and their in-ring stuff in check so they didn't go way too long exchanging elbows and slaps. Anyway, most post-2000 puro I have seen, regardless of if the workers involved could pull off the strike exchanges well, involves at least one. Hell, KENTA vs. Sugiura from 2013 seemed like a 20+ minute strike exchange with a few wrestling moves thrown in for good measure. I always thought it functioned best as a transition or a tease of one. But this was in matches between workers who were known for their stiff strikes and smart use of them. I suppose once it ends up becoming a staple of the majority of Japanese wrestling styles, you get a lot of workers who just don't understand how to use the strike exchange to move the match forward, not just for the sake of having one.KENTA vs Suguira had some of the scariest, best and smartest strike exchanges ever. KENTA vs Takayama have used them well as well. Some wrestlers do them well, some do them poorly. It's something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanClingman Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Puro is in a similar spot with one counts, which are becoming less and less meaningful. Of course their historical value differs from one promotion to the other, but I do find it annoying when a promotion like NJPW, who protected the one count over the last 5 years or so, are suddenly letting Komatsu and Tanaka bust it out in the opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think four matches on the latest NJPW iPPV had forearm or other strike exchanges. I don't think it's as big of a deal as some of you here think, but it is starting to get noticeable. They did vary them up a bit, but yeah, moving away from that spot would be a good call. It's nowhere as bad as ROH's love of fighting outside the ring though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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