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Ric Flair vs. Bret Hart


goodhelmet
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Who do you prefer?  

  1. 1.

    • Bret Hart
      12
    • Ric Flair
      5


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I'm apparently in the minority, but I voted for Flair.

 

Simply put, I can watch Ric Flair against anyone and know I'm getting something watchable out of it. George South of all people looked to be a viable threat to Flair, that's how good he was.

 

Bret, while capable of doing the same thing, had a tendency to go through the motions more often than Flair IMO.

 

In all actuality, I could watch both men's stuff all day long and not get sick of it, but I find myself more inclined to watch Flair's average stuff than Bret's average stuff.

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I want to touch on something you just said...

 

George South of all people looked to be a viable threat to Flair, that's how good he was.

I have a huge problem with this. George South did so many jobs that he should NEVE be able to look like a viable threat against the world champion. THis is a big criticism against Flair, that he was too giving. How are we to expect Flair to hold his own against a Nikita Koloff or Hawk when he is having trouble with whatever random-jobber-you-choose?

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Bret, but it's very close and I'm very reluctant. I've been watching lots of old Flair in the past few months and I've sort of come full circle on him -- I used to think he ruled, then I went through a period where I was down on him, and now I think he's one of the best ever again. Tomorrow, my answer could very well be different.

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I want to touch on something you just said...

 

George South of all people looked to be a viable threat to Flair, that's how good he was.

I have a huge problem with this. George South did so many jobs that he should NEVE be able to look like a viable threat against the world champion. THis is a big criticism against Flair, that he was too giving. How are we to expect Flair to hold his own against a Nikita Koloff or Hawk when he is having trouble with whatever random-jobber-you-choose?

I've heard this knock on Flair, and while I think it definately has some merit (especially when he was facing jobbers), wouldn't the opposite of that be what HHH gets knocked for?

 

To me, it's a sign of a good worker where they can wrestle a jobber and make you think (at least for a second) that the jobber might actually pull one out. Flair was always good at making the audience look at his opponent as better than they were. That might have ended up hurting in the long run, since Flair would make guys look like a million bucks, then a lot of those guys would tank as soon as they were programmed with someone else.

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I've heard this knock on Flair, and while I think it definately has some merit (especially when he was facing jobbers), wouldn't the opposite of that be what HHH gets knocked for?

Sort of, but not really. I don't have a problem with HHH winning if he's going to be the top guy. He should win most of his matches. The problem with HHH is that after he wins, the guy's career falls apart, he goes spiraling down to the midcard and he's never in main events again. With Flair, that didn't really happen.

 

In AJPW, Jumbo defeated Kawada and Kobashi many times, but they were still elevated from the losses because they looked strong against him and surprised people by how well they did, and that point was made and remade and emphasized and brought into future matches and expanded upon. HHH can take a couple of bumps for someone like Hurricane, but no one remembers because WWE doesn't do anything to try to follow up on it.

 

One of the criticisms has always been that Flair sells the same for South as he would a Lex Luger or Sting, when Luger and Sting are supposed to be the elite in the promotion and Flair should dismantle South while struggling against Sting and Luger, even if he does still emerge victorious. This was the AJPW model, anyway, when Jumbo was the man on top.

 

I agree that creating a hot false finish where it looks like the unknown may pull off the victory is a sign of a good worker. I just don't think Flair should have been doing it in every single match.

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Based on what you said... this kind of relates to the ROH criticism that guys are trying to have the best match possible regardless of their opponent's standing... which doesn't always make sense or is best for business. When Ric Flair is begging off from an inferior opponent, why should we take him seriously against a guy like Nikita who would have murdered George South in 2 minutes on television the week before?

 

EDIT: This was a response to sek but it could apply to what Loss said also.

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