Fantastic Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Well, I think it's safe to say that NJPW is the WWE for the Land of the Rising Sun (and the best alternative to WWE for the rest of the World!). That being said, we still have:AJPW Pro Wrestling NOAH Wrestle-1 All actively vying for the #2 spot. At the moment, AJPW is probably the promotion that best fits that, with NOAH in third. But, Mutoh's Wrestle-1 has a real shot at breaking through provided they are able to expand their talent base. It's still early days, and Mutoh has felt the need already to put the top belt on himself (due to the fact he's the most over name there currently). So, let's use this thread to discuss these three other promotions. Let's begin by talking about Naomichi Marufuji, the reigning GHC Heavyweight Champion. My personal opinion on him is that he's a great wrestler, but not cut out to be the face of NOAH. For anybody unfamiliar, Marufuji is Misawa's protege, Misawa obviously saw something in him, but was unable to "bring it out", to that end, Marufuji 2006 GHC heavyweight title reign bombed (as did everybody following Kobashi's epic reign), and Misawa ended up choosing to postpone contemplating retirement to win the title from Marufuji to get his promotion drawing again (Kobashi was pretty much done as an "ace" by this point). That's the biggest issue with Marufuji for many. He has the talent, but none of hte star power of his mentor, and because of how clearly the fact that he's Misawa's protege has been spelled out, there's that expectation that he's supposed to be Misawa's successor. Clearly, he's considered the best draw NOAH has going for them at this moment in time, but is this really the truth? We also know that NOAH took a hit when KENTA, Shiozaki and Akiyama all left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 DragonGate is the number 2. DDT is number 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 DragonGate is the number 2. DDT is number 3. Yep. Going off of the general definition of what makes a promotion "big or small" (some combination of drawing, exposure, quality of wrestlers, ect.) I agree that's the answer. If I were taking match quality into account than DDT would probably be #2 in my eyes because they aren't all that different than DG from a drawing/exposure standpoint and the match quality is general higher in my opinion. It will be interesting to see how that Saitama Arena show draws in February. The rest all have obvious warts. Its difficult to consider NOAH #2 or #3 when they are being subsidized in some manner by NJPW to keep them afloat. They are also rather thin talent wise and are not better off than either DDT or DG in that regard. AJPW is a rather scaled back promotion at this point so it would be a stretch to put them in the top 3. I know some were high on their match quality last year. I thought Akebono had a good start to the year and Akiyama was good for the rest of the year but not to the extent that gets them in the conversation on match quality alone. I'd probably go something like this taking into account all the different factors (drawing, exposure, wrestler quality, show/match quality, and whatever little we can discern about their finances.) 1. New Japan 2. DDT 3. Dragon Gate 4. AJPW 5. NOAH 6. BJW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 DragonGate is the number 2. DDT is number 3. Hmm, I thought about Dragon Gate, they have the finances and the exposure, but the stars? Surely not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 As far as quality goes and not business (what I was referring to with my first post), AJPW is a good in ring promotion. I would actually put their absolute best stuff against the absolute best stuff of NJPW, but their roster isn't as deep. On the other hand I do think they have a good variety of performers there. Akiyama is still a great wrestler, Akebono is a very solid big man, Miyahara is one of the best young stars in Japan, I love the vets like Omori, Nishimura and Fuchi and guys like Suwama, Doering and even Shiozaki have made real strides over the last eighteen months or so. Wrestle-1 shows are complete clusterfucks, that can be perversely entertaining, but are generally not good. NOAH is a soulless promotion at this point. I personally think Marufuji is god awful, among the worst wrestlers I've ever seen, though Ogawa (my favorite guy in NOAH) did carry him to a very good match at the end of last year. But it's not really Marufuji's fault. The promotion just lacks anything that grabs you. Even the guys they have who I like - Kenou, Ogawa, Sabre Jr., et. - rarely have spirited dance partners and even when they do the matches still feel flat. I wouldn't call NOAH bad, and I'm hoping the Suzuki-Gun Invasion can lead to some of their best shows in years, but they are a very flat promotion. DDT is a promotion I'm slowly starting to like, largely because their ace Harashima is the best ace in wrestling. Don't get me wrong, the guy is heavily flawed as a worker, but the way the promotion books him and the way he presents himself is a real throwback. He's someone who's matches I always enjoy watching even when I think they are sort of bad in parts. That's an impressive trait to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 DragonGate is the number 2. DDT is number 3. Hmm, I thought about Dragon Gate, they have the finances and the exposure, but the stars? Surely not? I don't even like Dragon Gate, but it's hard to argue for anyone other than DDT ahead of them if you we are looking at the traditional business metrics. They are a faction based promotion, so the way "star power" gets measured in that context is probably different from the way we would measure it with most promotions. That said the ultimate test of star power is whether or not people want to see them - I love Akiyama, but AJPW is struggling (to put it mildly). CIMA and the gang aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Bennett Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 As a novice to Japanese wrestling, where would Zero-1 fit on the scale of things over there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Are any of DG or DDTs monthly shows on YouTube or is it strictly a dvd thing? I'm going to try and follow as many of the "ppvs" from various promotions as I can this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 As a novice to Japanese wrestling, where would Zero-1 fit on the scale of things over there? Well, when Hashimoto was still alive and running things, it was the number four promotion in Japan. Now the only time I really think about it is when Masato Tanaka has a match in NJPW and he's billed as a member of the Zero-1 roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Are any of DG or DDTs monthly shows on YouTube or is it strictly a dvd thing? I'm going to try and follow as many of the "ppvs" from various promotions as I can this year. Theyre never really on Youtube, but you can get all of Dragon Gate's big shows and most of DDT's on Dailymotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BohsJohnny Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Are any of DG or DDTs monthly shows on YouTube or is it strictly a dvd thing? I'm going to try and follow as many of the "ppvs" from various promotions as I can this year. Everything that makes TV in Japan gets uploaded here http://www.dailymotion.com/JAHMAL1111 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 NOAH is a soulless promotion at this point. I personally think Marufuji is god awful, among the worst wrestlers I've ever seen, though Ogawa (my favorite guy in NOAH) did carry him to a very good match at the end of last year. But it's not really Marufuji's fault. Rat Boy is one of my favorites too, I think it's awesome that he's still wrestling in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Dylan, Where is a good place to see AJPW in depth these days? I would LOVE to start watching the Champions Carnival again.. I have a sneaky feeling with NJPW getting soo much international pub, that AJPW is gonna start sneaking up toward respectable and getting bigger again...not to their 80's and 90's levels (and not to NJPW), but much bigger than now...what I have seen from 2014's Carnival was good, trying to find more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'd say as far as top stuff goes AJPW is on par with, maybe even better than, NJPW presently. A lot of that has to do with me far preferring the overall top talent in AJPW to the overall top talent in NJPW, but in general I find myself enjoying the AJPW shows far more than the NJPW shows. Smack, I'm not Dylan, but DailyMotion is your best bet to keep track of modern AJPW. Guys like RealHero upload lots of stuff from them, so basically seek out some people on DM who are uploading modern AJPW and follow along with what they upload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jushin muta liger Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 As most of the people have said in this thread, Dragon Gate is definitely the number 2 promotion in Japan. The frenetic pace those guys go through attracts a lot of casual fans. Rich Swann in his Colt Cabana interview said that the DG shows consists mostly of women and gay men. I would assume that kids come to the show too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'd like to echo Bill, there has been some wonderful matches in AJPW recently. I've mostly been keeping up with Akiyama, as I love a grumpy vet. His match against Omori is worth watching. I also enjoyed Go vs Joe Doering much more than I thought I would. The crowd sizes may not be as large as in the past.. but the wrestlers (and the crowd!) still bring a big feeling for a lot of their mains. It's been a long time since I watched matches in this style, and it's been refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Speaking of that Go Shiozaki vs. Joe Doering match... I thought the first two thirds were pretty dull and the Kobashi/Hansen role-playing was eye-roll inducing, but they really turned it on for the last 10 minutes and actually managed to come close to hitting the heights of the classic matches they were aping. Really remarkable stuff, and one of the hottest crowds I've heard in some time. Just a shame the whole match wasn't that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 How much of the 2014 AJPW Carnival is available on video? Does AJPW even have TV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Speaking of that Go Shiozaki vs. Joe Doering match... I thought the first two thirds were pretty dull and the Kobashi/Hansen role-playing was eye-roll inducing, but they really turned it on for the last 10 minutes and actually managed to come close to hitting the heights of the classic matches they were aping. Really remarkable stuff, and one of the hottest crowds I've heard in some time. Just a shame the whole match wasn't that good. I'd second that, took a while for it to get out of first gear. Didn't really feel the Kobashi/Hansen stuff while watching it.. but it's been so long since I watched any AJPW from that period. Or seen anyone try and "ape" that style directly. It seems like around 2004-06 everyone was doing it. American indies being the most guilty in my memory. Memory can be funny, so I may be off.. please chime in, anyone ? I think people were gouging themselves on NOAH maybe.. Anyways, after seeing so much copy cat stuff from that time period, I never wanted to see something along those lines again. So I was really surprised to find something that hit the right notes, let alone in AJPW! It's not perfect, certainly, but it rang true.. to me, heh I write some of this in hope that other burn-outs might take a look. Something about it.. can lead to overkill, in watching, and in execution. But once in a while, it can be a fun ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Doering has always been a dollar store Hansen (to quote Joe Lanza) and Shiozaki did a bunch of chops and teased a Burning Hammer... that's enough for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 That tease of the burning hammer was eye roll inducing. And Doering tries to be Hansen-esque. Will say he has a beautiful stache. Hope the roster gets a wee bit deeper. Too many damn promotions. Also, if of any interest to anyone here, there is a rumor making the rounds that AJPW will be invaded by IGF. Something about Baba versus Inoki. I know ZERO about IGF as a product. So, if anyone wanted to shed the light on what IGF would bring to the table, that'd be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Just watched the 1/10 NOAH show and enjoyed the hell out of it. I actually liked it more than a lot of the pimped NJPW shows, fun stuff up and down the card. The Suzuki-Gun angle at the end opens up months of possibilities of cool stuff. Between that and AJPW, seems like it's time for people to be paying attention to the wider puro scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Was that on YouTube or somewhere else? I want to track the monthly Noah and DG shows this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't know how many more times it needs to be said. REALHERO ON DAILYMOTION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Didn't know the Noah shows were on there too. If you didn't wanna type it then don't waste your time typing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.