Dominic DeNucci and Baron Scicluna

[Ricky Jackson]

 

Two men once locked in perpetual combat, careers and lives intertwined, but mostly forgotten in the modern age. They were professional wrestlers, in the classic sense of two men in trunks pretending to fight. They were successful in what they did. They drew money. One was popular, the other was hated. They wrestled decade after decade, starting when Elvis became popular, TV was new and the NWA was supreme, ending when Michael Jackson became king, computers had entered homes, and Kayfabe and the NWA were crumbling. By the end they were the subject of ridicule, lowly "jobbers" losing every match they wrestled. But who were they?

 

They wrestled each other perhaps as many times as any two wrestlers ever, and their lives had many parallels.

 

-Both were from Europe. DeNucci from Italy and Scicluna from the Isle of Malta

-Both came to Canada as young men. DeNucci to Montreal and Scicluna to Toronto

-Both fell into wrestling by hanging out at gyms

-Both initially wrestled for long periods under different names than they would become famous for. DeNucci as Dominic Bravo, Scicluna as Mike Valentino

-Both made it to New York. Scicluna in 1965, DeNucci in 1967. While they continued to travel and preform in other areas for several years, New York became their home and by the mid-70s they were more or less a permanent fixture of Vince McMahon Sr's undercards

-Both were significant stars in Australia during the 60s, a time when wrestling in that country was as hot as anywhere in the world

-Both achieved success in the tag team ranks of the WWWF, holding the straps multiple times

-Both, in the twilight of their careers, existed only to lose to established stars or young, up-and-coming talent. Night in and night out. Year after year.

-Both, post-wrestling, drove a trucks for, fittingly, rival newspapers. DeNucci for the New York Daily News, Scicluna for the New York Times.

 

They first wrestled each other in 1961, when DeNucci was Dominic Bravo and Scicluna was Mike Valentino. They last wrestled each other in 1982. They wrestled each other a lot over the years, hundreds and hundreds of times.

 

Gone but not forgotten

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Scicluna was a challenger to Bruno's title in the 1960s. And was a headline act. From reading around, and I've read around a lot about these two, Scicluna seems like he chose to homestead in New York to be with his family, even though it meant a long slide down the card for him. He could have stayed on the road in the 60s, and 70s, and would have likely been a bigger star if he had. See also, Johnny Rodz, who made similar career choices.

 

Denucci was a big star in Jim Barnett's WCW (Australia), and a draw in Buffallo where he once held the NWF World Title. He was also something of a star in secondary WWF markets, especially Bruno towns -- he was sort of like Bruno's Brutus Beefcake. Denucci seemed to travel a bit more than Scicluna, and would work St. Louis and some shows in Canada and elsewhere on occassion. He was a big man and an old-school babyface, who -- from what we've seen -- was always over, despite not being the greatest worker to ever lace them up.

 

I have a fascination with these two guys, which may only be shared with one other person in the world (the starter of this thread).

[Mad Dog]

It feels like I got exposed to a lot of Baron Scicluna matches when 24/7 used to be a thing. They had a real knack for finding MSG cards from the 70s and early 80s with him on there. The funny thing about you guys talking about the eternal struggle between DeNucci/Scicluna because it felt like those shows always had Scicluna vs. S.D. Jones on them.

 

I think sometimes we as online fans are too quick to bash certain guys. I don't feel that way about the Baron. His matches are just dull as hell. I can't think of one good Scicluna match that I've ever seen. I once mistook a time limit draw between Jones/Scicluna for going into a coma. I did catch his match with Pat Patterson and didn't care for it.

 

Now with DeNucci. I've seen less of him and very little of him when he wasn't past his prime. I can see the appeal of him even as an older guy that's mostly a JTTS. I did like his matches with the Iron Sheik and Hulk Hogan. They were good for what they are. He has a good fire to him. I like his punches a lot. I would like to see some of his WCW work and some of his tags from the mid 70s.

[Al]

I once compiled a list of MSG wrestlers by appearances and Baron was top 10, maybe even top 5. He wrestled a shitload of matches for Vince Sr.

[Ricky Jackson]

The matches (not complete)

 

http://wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=konst&letter1=D&wrestler1=5569&letter2=B&wrestler2=5561&letter3=&wrestler3=0&letter4=&wrestler4=0&matchtyp=0&anzeige=matches

[JerryvonKramer]

It feels like I got exposed to a lot of Baron Scicluna matches when 24/7 used to be a thing. They had a real knack for finding MSG cards from the 70s and early 80s with him on there. The funny thing about you guys talking about the eternal struggle between DeNucci/Scicluna because it felt like those shows always had Scicluna vs. S.D. Jones on them.

 

I think sometimes we as online fans are too quick to bash certain guys. I don't feel that way about the Baron. His matches are just dull as hell. I can't think of one good Scicluna match that I've ever seen. I once mistook a time limit draw between Jones/Scicluna for going into a coma. I did catch his match with Pat Patterson and didn't care for it.

I am convinced that the match were bad "on purpose". Like Vince Sr had given strict orders to stink up the joint for 10 minutes to ensure people would get their toilet breaks, buy their donuts, etc.

 

You could make an argument that Scicluna is one of those maestros who can play the piano badly, which apparently takes real skill. I mean, you could, I'm not saying I will.

[Mad Dog]

I would agree if those matches with Jones weren't the openers.

[JerryvonKramer]

I would agree if those matches with Jones weren't the openers.

The openers at MSG were always appalling, and so were the curfews (last match). So maybe they were aware of people arriving and people leaving?

 

In modern WWE or even in later 80s WWF, I'm sure most of those openers would have been dark matches.

[Mad Dog]

I thought the openers got better when Lanny and Koko started working them.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The idea that Vince Sr. Told them to stink on purpose is silly overthinking. As if they had some amazing match in them but we're told "No". 😆

And even if they were capable of having some great match at that time, in no way did they care about doing it. They knew what their roles were and just went out there with only the knowledge of how long they were supposed to go and who was going over.

[JerryvonKramer]

The idea that Vince Sr. Told them to stink on purpose is silly overthinking. As if they had some amazing match in them but we're told "No".

There are COUNTLESS stories from old-timers about being told off by bookers for having a good match on the undercard and upstaging the main event. Countless.

 

Also, this quotation is from the SAME GUY who argued that it was Vince Sr who told Backlund to work like superman. So you can't have it both ways bub.

[The Chief]

Over the hill wrestlers working for rival newspaper companies sounds like a tremendous sitcom

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

The idea that Vince Sr. Told them to stink on purpose is silly overthinking. As if they had some amazing match in them but we're told "No".

There are COUNTLESS stories from old-timers about being told off by bookers for having a good match on the undercard and upstaging the main event. Countless.

 

Also, this quotation is from the SAME GUY who argued that it was Vince Sr who told Backlund to work like superman. So you can't have it both ways bub.

 

Of course I can. Don't be obtuse. You really think Vince Sr. told these two to not be good? They did that on their own. The idea that the promoter told the fucking WORLD CHAMPION what he wanted from him in main events doesn't mean that he was telling these two guys to stink on purpose . I can see it now, Vince Sr. with his stack of coins,

"Dom..Baron..come over here. Look, I know you can have a tear down the house match that'll steal the show tonight but don't do it, see? "

"But-a Meester A-McMaho"

"I SAID STINK IT UP. Unless you want to be delivering papers full time with the fishes, get it?"

[Mad Dog]

I think there's also a huge difference between yelling at guys for up staging the main event and telling guys to stink at the level that Scicluna did.

[goc]

And there is also a difference between having a "good undercard match" and working above your level by doing a bunch of stuff that's reserved for the main event. I never heard anyone talk about being yelled at for having a good match SPECIFICALLY, it was mostly for doing shit they weren't supposed to be doing in the undercard. Like brawling around the ring, using weapons, getting color, doing too many high spots, etc.

[JerryvonKramer]

I maintain that Scicluna was employed specifically to let the crowd know that something entirely missable was on -- some people arrive, some people going to get drinks, some people going to the loo, etc.

 

Might be known professionally as "The Cooler".

 

[Mad Dog]

But you would use a cooler later in the night. Maybe halfway through the show to give people the chance to do that stuff. And honestly an intermission is just as effective.

[JerryvonKramer]

Mad Dog, Vince Sr had a whole crew of coolers, and he used intermissions.

Let me dig up some MSG cards.

Cooler matches in bold.

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 21, 1980 (20,000+)

Televised on the MSG Network - featured Vince McMahon on commentary:

Davey O'Hannon pinned Angelo Gomez at 10:21 with a neckbreaker - cooler opener, people arriving etc.

Kevin Von Erich pinned Johnny Rodz with a Thesz Press at 8:28 (Von Erich's only MSG appearance) - highlighting babyface

Larry Zbyszko defeated Hussein Arab via disqualification at 10:29 when Arab accidentally hit an elbow drop on referee Terry Terranova when Zbyzsko moved out of the way after Arab had pushed Zbyszko onto the referee when kicking out of a pin attempt; after the bout, Zbyszko cleared Arab from the ring - star vs. star match

Hulk Hogan pinned Dominic DeNucci at 7:34 with the legdrop after dropping DeNucci throat-first across the top rope; prior to the bout, Freddie Blassie escorted Hogan to the ring before returning backstage when the match began - highlighting heel

The Wild Samoans defeated WWF Tag Team Champions Ivan Putski & Tito Santana via count-out at 12:46 after Samoan #2 crotched Santana on the top rope, with Santana then falling out to the floor; after the bout, Santana was taken backstage on a stretcher (the Samoans' MSG debut) - featured match up

Rene Goulet pinned Baron Mikel Scicluna at 4:59 with a sunset flip; during the bout, Vince McMahon interviewed Mike Weppner from Front Line Management in NYC, & Kal Rudman about their experience being here at MSG (Goulet's return to MSG after an 8-year absence) - cooler before main event

WWF World Champion Bob Backlund (w/ Arnold Skaaland) fought Ken Patera to a draw at 25:52 when, after Patera threw Backlund into referee Jack Lotz, referee Terry Terranova called for the bell; after the bout, Lotz was taken backstage on a stretcher; prior to the bout, the Grand Wizard escorted Patera to the ring before returning backstage when the match began; after the bout, both men continued brawling until they were eventually separated by several other wrestlers and referees - main event

[want to say there was likely an intermission here, but someone else might check, might have been before main]

WWF IC Champion Pat Patterson defeated Capt. Lou Albano via count-out at 6:11 in a non-title match after Patterson hit Albano with his own foreign object, causing Albano to bleed, with Albano then running backstage - semi-main


Bobby Duncum pinned Mike Masters at 1:29 with a bulldog

Tony Atlas pinned Swede Hanson at 2:17 with a headbutt off the top (Atlas' MSG debut) - curfew stuff.

Gonna pulla out some others.

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 24, 1980 (26,102 which included 4,000 in Felt Forum)
Televised on the MSG Network - featured Vince McMahon on commentary

Bulldog Brower pinned Frank Williams at 8:53 with an elbow drop following a running back elbow - cooler opener, people arriving etc.

Kerry Von Erich pinned Jose Estrada at 10:49 with a sunset flip out of the corner (Kerry's MSG debut) - highlighting babyface

Tor Kamata pinned Mike Masters at 5:46 with a jumping kick and a kneedrop - cooler

Larry Zbyszko defeated Bruno Sammartino (w/ Arnold Skaaland) via disqualification at 15:31 when Sammartino failed to release a choke; Sammartino was eventually pulled away by Skaaland and referee Dick Kroll while Zbyzsko escaped - co-main event

Afa pinned Dominic DeNucci at 9:42 with a jumping headbutt - cooler

WWF World Champion Bob Backlund pinned Sika at 18:32 after throwing the challenger off the top as Sika attempted a diving headbutt - co-main event

Andre the Giant & WWF IC Champion Pat Patterson defeated Bobby Duncum & Ken Patera at 11:04 when Andre pinned Duncum with a splash as Patterson had Duncum in the figure-4 - feature match

Rene Goulet pinned Baron Mikel Scicluna with a sunset flip at 6:11 - cooler

Hulk Hogan pinned WWF Tag Team Champion Tito Santana at 8:12 with a suplex and grabbing the tights for leverage; prior to the bout, Hogan was escorted to the ring by Freddie Blassie - highlighting heel / people go home

One more.

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 16, 1980 (20,000+)

Johnny Rodz defeated Steve King - cooler opener

 

Bobby Duncum defeated Rick McGraw - highlighting heel

 

Hulk Hogan defeated Gorilla Monsoon - highlighting heel

 

Larry Zbyszko defeated WWF World Champion Bob Backlund when the bout was stopped due to blood at 27:39 - main event

 

Ivan Putski (sub. for Dusty Rhodes) defeated Tor Kamata - sort of a cooler, although names might pop crowd anyway

 

WWF IC Champion Ken Patera defeated Pat Patterson - semi main

 

Rene Goulet defeated Larry Sharpe via disqualification - cooler

 

WWF Tag Team Champions the Wild Samoans defeated Dominic DeNucci & Ivan Putski - your typical curfew tag finish to a card

[Mad Dog]

Are you sure he just didn't employ a lot of shitty wrestlers?

[JerryvonKramer]

New York could book practically any wrestler they wanted to, especially at MSG, so I can only work out that it was by design.

 

Also, I've theorised that Vince Sr was extremely tight and outside of his champ and guest heel star was running a virtual slave labour camp. This can also been seen in the extremely small and shitty room he used at the hotel where he'd book matches with his group of old men. Anything to keep costs at a shoe-string.

 

Vince Sr intrigues me as a figure for all these reasons.

[Mad Dog]

I think Sr. was a loyal guy. Hence why a guy like Scicluna was allowed to stink up the undercard for a decade plus.

[Boon]

Parv, you've intrigued me into the dealings of Vince Snr and his running of the WWWF. This was a great little biopic of these two guys, I'd normally just fast forward past...

[Indikator]

It goes further back actually, I've read a couple of times that in the 20s/30s good boxers (some from Europe) barely made anything in NYC when they could have made way more money elsewhere. They all wanted to make it big though. The weekly wrestling cards in NYC and basically most smaller East Coast towns were probably just as bad pay wise

[Mad Dog]

I'll add a MSG match with Greg Valentine to the list of DeNucci matches I've really enjoyed.

[Ricky Jackson]

Hmmmm...that reminds me that I have that match kicking around somewhere. I need to watch it