thebrainfollower Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 What time should anyone coming into Mid South's weekly show start to watch ideally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 I'd start at the beginning of 1984 so you can watch the rise of The Midnight Express, the RNRs and Buddy Landell and you definitely want to see all the great stuff between Jim Cornette and Bill Watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted November 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 ok thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBlowPodcast Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Don't discount the 1980 run with the Freebirds vs JYD. It was stellar business on top of bringing in some major stars. It was always a good consistent promotion but I'd say notoriety wise, perhaps 84-85 when they got on that great TV run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Start of 84 also has the great Magnum/Wrestling 2 dynamic playing out, including the TA/JYD contract signing that I adore. Prepare for music videos and lots of Masao Ito, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Don't discount the 1980 run with the Freebirds vs JYD. It was stellar business on top of bringing in some major stars. It was always a good consistent promotion but I'd say notoriety wise, perhaps 84-85 when they got on that great TV run. Â Is much of 1980 available though? 82 or 83 is the first full year of TV we have I'm pretty sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Start of 84 also has the great Magnum/Wrestling 2 dynamic playing out, including the TA/JYD contract signing that I adore. Prepare for music videos and lots of Masao Ito, however. I like Masao Ito! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 This would seem an ideal show to podcast through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Mark Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Mid- South took off when Bill Dundee took over the book . The decline of Mid- South began when Dundee returned to Memphis . Watts was losing money due to his poor booking. The Cowboy pushed slow , plodding big men , much like himself . His top baby face , Terry Allen, was getting destroyed by Russians every week. Â Watts turned to Jarrett and Lawler for help. They sent Dundee to book Mid- South . Dundee bought Ricky Morton , Robert Gibson , Terry Taylor , Jim Cornette , Dennis Condry and Bobby Eaton to Mid -South and mix them with Buddy Landall , Butch Reed , Junk Yard Dog , Ted DibIase , Jim Duggan , Steve Willams, Jake Roberts , Mr. Wrestling II and Terry Allen . Memphis came to the Mid- South and the greatest turnout in the business happen due to the Memphis style of booking. The fans of Mid- South went crazy when they were introduce to the wild and faster paced Memphis booking style. Landall had spendt a lot of time in Memphis and Jarrett had sent JYD to Watts several years back. Â As most of you know Jarrett got Rick Rude , Jim Neidhart , Mr. Ito , Tony Anthony and Len Denton from Watts. They were added to a line up that featured , Lawler , Jimmy Hart , Dutch Mantell , Austin Idol , King Kong Bundy Randy Savage , Lanny Poffo , Phil Hickerson , Koko Ware , Norvell Austin , Tommy Rich and Eddie Gilbert. This is the point in time when Ric Rude was created by the Memphis brain trust. Watts had been using Rude as a baby face jobber , but Jarrett saw greatness in Rude. Â Dundee stayed in Mid- South the whole time the Poffo brothers were in Memphis. Eventually Dundee returned home and if I am not mistaken Eddie Gilbert took the book in Mid- South. Â It is interesting to note that Watts paid Jarrett and Lawler back try to invade their territory when he formed the UWF . Of course Jarrett and Lawler crushed his efforts. Watts was quickly dispatched to Tulsa by the King and company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I did think that Watts trying to run UWF shows in Jarrett's territory was an incredible mistake. He probably still had enough good will built up with Jarrett from the good years that they could have tried to work co-promoted shows and drawn a lot more money splitting the take on big houses by promoting UWF on Memphis TV as "invaders" trying to take over the area with The King and company going to war against them to fight them off than losing money on shows that the people in the area didn't support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The more I read about Bill Watts the more I wonder if Bill Watts - most overrated promoter ever in smarts eyes would be a good topic for discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I don't think it would be as good as you think it would be and might find yourself on an island. It's not like Vince or Crockett did better trying to run in Memphis and Vince himself apparently told Bill Watts that no one kicked his ass like Watts did when Vince was first invading everyone's territory. Â Mid-South had some incredibly successful times based mostly off of Watts' vision. Yea the UWF went out of business but so did everyone else in that time period including Crockett. He just happened to have his company bought by Turner so it didn't die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I have had to listen to Bill Watts built up as the greatest promoter ever, a man whose vision of wrestling is still the most perfect of all time, a man who if we listened to, would have wrestling drawing 2 millions fans a night to 20 cards each night. Some of the smart people I talk to (most not around here) literally consider Bill Watts a god who is incapable of error. Â Instead we got his failed (IMO) WCW run, the fact that the 2 best years of Mid South weren't his ideas and the lengthy debate about why UWF failed. I am not saying he's not a GOOD promoter. I am saying the idea he's in a league of one that nobody even touches isn't accurate. And that's the way it's always been presented to me (Not necessarily around here, by everyone at least) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The Bill Dundee era was booked by Bill Dundee but still very much filtered through the vision of Bill Watts. It wasn't just Mid-South TV suddenly being exactly like Memphis it was a marriage of the two. It was fast moving TV with a lot of angles but they also treated stuff that would have been standard fare on Memphis TV as a far bigger deal in Mid-South. Â Cornette tells the story of Mid-South selling out a show with a blindfold battle royal which was a standard spot show bullshit match to help fill out a card in Memphis because of Bill Watts treating it like such a serious deal when he was talking about it on TV because Watts put over how dangerous it was. Â Every promoter used bookers anyway so that seems like a silly thing to fault him for that he didn't book it all himself. It shows that he was a GOOD promoter that he was able to take a booker who had ideas that were pretty different from his own and use them to great success which included putting much smaller guys than what usually worked in that area in top positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I will give you that. Makes me wish he had a Bill Dundee around in 92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Mark Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Also Watts was not good at creating new talent . Memphis and Portland survived so long because they knew had to develop newcomers if they wanted to stay in business . The only new talents Watts developed were Steve Williams and Rick Steiner. Watts backed into Sting after Jarrett let him go . Â Mid- South / UWF depended on other promoters to create stars . When McMahon and Crockett started taking all of the talent the lack of new talent in the pipeline really hurt his company . Of course Watts responded by hiring Ken Mantell and raiding World Class. Â I am not a big Bill Watts fan . He was a good promoter and knew how to use other people to make money. However I did enjoy his ring work and booking style . Watt's business tactics were ruthless and he showed no loyalty to the other promoters that him him for so many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I don't get how people can say Watts' WCW was a failure compared to the rest of WCW's existence. I'd rather watch something from Watts' run than 1994, '96, '97, you name it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Gotta disagree with the Watts didn't create stars thing. There were a lot of guys who became big stars in Mid-South who weren't big names at all before their runs there. JYD, Jim Duggan and Magnum TA were 3 guys who weren't main event acts in other territories before getting their big breaks in Mid-South. The Midnight Express w/Cornette wasn't even a thing before they got to Mid-South. You can say that that was all Bill Dundee but it doesn't happen without Watts and it's especially true due to the work he did with them on TV to help get Cornette over. He wasn't a guy who took the greenest of talents and developed them but then not every territory was. Â Memphis & Portland were lower tier territories that developed the really young guys because their pay was lower than places like Mid-South or Crockett and had no other choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Mark Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Gotta disagree with the Watts didn't create stars thing. There were a lot of guys who became big stars in Mid-South who weren't big names at all before their runs there. JYD, Jim Duggan and Magnum TA were 3 guys who weren't main event acts in other territories before getting their big breaks in Mid-South. The Midnight Express w/Cornette wasn't even a thing before they got to Mid-South. You can say that that was all Bill Dundee but it doesn't happen without Watts and it's especially true due to the work he did with them on TV to help get Cornette over. He wasn't a guy who took the greenest of talents and developed them but then not every territory was. Â Memphis & Portland were lower tier territories that developed the really young guys because their pay was lower than places like Mid-South or Crockett and had no other choice. Â Â Â Some good points. JYD was working for Nick Gulas under the ring name LeRoy Rochester. Jarrett pick up Ritter after Gulas closed his doors. Ritter was so horrible in ring that Jarrett send him to Watts. Watts did wonders with Ritter turning into a money draw as the Junkyard Dog. Watts did pick up Jim Duggan and did wonders with him . Duggan was a jobber on GCW before entering Mid- South . I will give Watts credit on those two. However they all came from somewhere else. Watts did not find and develop new talent ., which hurt him in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I will give Watts credit on those two. However they all came from somewhere else. Watts did not find and develop new talent ., which hurt him in the end. Â What about Dr. Death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 He already gave credit for Dr. Death. The only new talents Watts developed were Steve Williams and Rick Steiner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I don't understand that argument. He didn't find and develop new talent because he wasn't the first place they worked? You pointed out that Duggan was a jobber before Watts turned him into a star as if that is someone a knock on Watts that he didn't find him training at a wrestling school. You can say that about pretty much every wrestling star ever. Hogan, the Rock, Austin, Undertaker, Mankind, Kurt Angle, Ultimate Warrior. None of them became stars where they began. I guess that's a knock on Vince as promoter. He didn't start out with any of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 He wasn't running a wrestling school. Everyone comes from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Â He already gave credit for Dr. Death. Â The only new talents Watts developed were Steve Williams and Rick Steiner. Ok. The post I responded to only mentioned JYD and Duggan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruiserBrody Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Has video of the Freebirds/JYD stuff from 1980 ever made it to youtube? I know the blinding is lost forever apparently but other promos and such could be greatly interesting to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.