Best babyfaces

[Loss]

Who are some of the best babyfaces you've seen throughout your wrestling-watching career? What made them great in your eyes and what are their best performances (meaning cite examples)? I'll chime in once I'm not at work and this thread gets going, but I think this could be interesting.

[Guest savagerulz]

X-Pac: - Let's start this one off interesting. X-Pac was a HUGE babyface before he created his own type of heat. The guy was on a roll from 1998 until when he turned on Kane in late 1999/early 2000. He debuted as a babyface on Raw the night after WM14 as Hunter reformed DX. I'd say the highest point of his babyface run was either during his Euro title run/feud with Shane, or when him and Kane were tag team champions. He's far from the best, but during that time frame, he had it going.

[Loss]

I would agree that Waltman - at one time - had the ability to play a great babyface. If I was going to point to an example for him, it would be his match with Bret Hart on the 07/11/94 RAW, which saw Bret take him to the best match of his career. I'd hardly classify Kid as a spot machine at his peak, but he had that rep and he was always paired off with other guys who had that rep. This was a rare opportunity for him to work with a well-rounded worker and he made the most of it. I credit the genius of Bret Hart for the masterful crowd manipulation in that match, as they were solidly in Bret's corner against the one-hit midcarder, but slowly grew comfortable with Kid as the match progressed and started cheering him more. Part of that was because of Bret using holds that would get him sympathy - maybe even the biggest part - but it wouldn't have worked if Kid hadn't been such a terrific seller. If this was the end of 1993 and I was voting on the Best Gimmick, I might have to consider the 1-2-3 Kid, who after auspicious beginnings turned into a relatively hot midcard act and totally went against the grain of who was pushed in the WWF at the time.

[Guest savagerulz]

As far as naming the guys that are probably the greatest babyfaces in modern day wrestling Ric Flair, Sting, Hogan, Rock, and Austin should be mentioned.

[Guest savagerulz]

Ricky Steamboat- He rarely did anything bad (can't even remember) and he played the underdog so well. He was also good in the face-in-peril role during matches. I could never boo him even when I wanted to. He's like the Ned Flanders of wrestling.

[Loss]

As far as naming the guys that are probably the greatest babyfaces in modern day wrestling Ric Flair, Sting, Hogan, Rock, and Austin should be mentioned.

I'm not so much thinking in terms of money drawn, just because there's nothing to discuss there because it's not open to interpretation. I'm thinking in terms of babyface performance in specific matches and the nuances of the performance that stood out to you as great babyface work.

 

From a money-drawing perspective, Flair and Austin are tremendous babyfaces. But I've always felt that Austin makes his opponents look like shit as a babyface (with rare exceptions) and Flair actually has historically done the same unless someone like Vader was potatoing him and leaving him with no choice.

[Guest EastCoastJ]

Tito Santana. The guy was just impossible not to cheer for. He had the best comebacks, and sold like he was near death. In Strike Force he was so great at working the crowd from the apron too when he wasn't in the match. I wouldn't say he was ever a top shelf draw, but he was solid and actually did pretty well when he was headling B and C shows for the WWF when they were running 980 events a year.

 

Sgt. Slaughter was a great babyface in the early to mid 80's, as was Brian Pillman in 89-91.

[sek69]

Kerry Von Erich from about 84 to 87 was right up there with Ricky Morton in terms of working babyface. I can't even imagine what it must have been like being in the Sportatorium for his matches. Sometimes even when you watch them on tape/DVD the shrieking girls make your ears hurt.

 

It probably helped that some of the best heels in wrestling history passed through Texas at that time, but I don't think I've ever seen the crowd rally behind someone on a consistent basis like that since.

[Loss]

Masterlock mentioned Tito, who is one of my favorites on the DVDVR set. His bump off of Butch Reed's big soupbone in the post-match brawl is one of my favorite moments on the entire set.

[The Thread Killer]

I agree about Steamboat. Here was a guy who was a career babyface. You never had to worry about him turning on you, and you knew he'd do his best to drag a half decent match out of his opponent.

 

I also agree about Slaughter. I know I am dating myself here, but I was actually a fan watching the product at the time during his feud with The Iron Sheik and damn did he play the patriot to perfection.

 

Gotta give Sting credit too. He was a face for the majority of his career, a few stupid pointless heel turns aside. You always knew he was going to fight for the fans of WCW.

 

Once again, I was a teen while Hulkamania was running wild, and I never bought it for a MINUTE. I didn't like Hogan back then. His promos made me laugh, his matches sucked, and he always came across as insincere to me. I was a massive Jake The Snake mark back then.

 

Strangely enough, I found Hogan's face turn at WM18 and the next night in Montreal much more compelling. It really moved me as a fan to see his reaction to the fans cheering him again. He kept saying that "the fans brought Hulkamania back" for that run, and he wasn't kidding. I found that much more believeable than all that "train and say your prayers" crap. So even though he was crazy over, I wouldn't rate him as a great face.

 

A great face is somebody who acts like a hero and does the right thing, and sells that to the fans with sincerity. When Jake DDT'd Steamboat on the concrete, as fan I was worried. If he had done it to Hogan (interesting story about that on Jake's DVD by the way) I would have laughed and cheered.

[Guest SweetMama Scaat]

Austin was always more of an anti hero. Are we talking about babyfaces in teh classical sense? If so, then Steve Austin aint it.

 

 

 

Steamoat-"Hes a guy with values, hes a family man, loves his wife and son and does the best he can. Why he wrestles its no hard to understand-Ricky Steamboat-THE DRAGON~Im not saying that woman dont fall over him, but he dont give in. Hes a family man"

 

Sting- Consumate hero. He was noble without being preachy and cool without having an attitude. He took on all odds from The man they call Vader to The Four Horseman. He often defended Americas honor when WCW when was in Japan. He would give anyone a chance wheter they were incredibly evil (Flair) or had betrayed him before (Luger....a whole rack of times).

Tito Santanna- A gentleman and a nice guy. Was always a spirited competetior and was an actual role model for young latinos (and young people in general). Random note: Rapper Fat Joe once did an interview stating that he looked up to him

 

Hibilly Jim- He was so happy go lucky and damn likable. Everybodys friend.

 

Mega Powers- Yall know

 

Dusty Rhodes- Representing the common man, Rhodes would fight any villan or "evil foreigner", he was never physically impressive or a road scholar but he wold fight for what he belived in no matter the cost.The best way I can provide this point is to mention the Rhodes promos on The Ric Flair DVD. Those, should be shown in babyface class.

 

Linda Mcmahon- Fuck YOU who disagrees with this. Nobody could touch Linny Mac during her surprise appearances. When she showed up you knew one of her obnoxious family member were gonna get put in their place (and hopefully be off tv for a lil bit). Linda wasnt gretted with huge pops but polite applause and anticipation. She frequently joined forces with Mick Foley. When she appeared she usually had some major announcement in assistance to another face in need of aid.

[Loss]

Will someone PLEASE start naming specific examples instead of just throwing names out there? That was the purpose of this thread. "In Match X, someone did such-and-such that was really awesome." Thanks.

[Loss]

Strangely enough, I found Hogan's face turn at WM18 and the next night in Montreal much more compelling.  It really moved me as a fan to see his reaction to the fans cheering him again.  He kept saying that "the fans brought Hulkamania back" for that run, and he wasn't kidding.  I found that much more believeable than all that "train and say your prayers" crap.  So even though he was crazy over, I wouldn't rate him as a great face.  

 

A great face is somebody who acts like a hero and does the right thing, and sells that to the fans with sincerity.  When Jake DDT'd Steamboat on the concrete, as fan I was worried.  If he had done it to Hogan (interesting story about that on Jake's DVD by the way) I would have laughed and cheered.

Exactly. Hogan was, in many ways, the supreme heel of his era. He broke rules, beat up women, had the referees, announcers and promotional machine in his pocket and got away with murder. It's similar to Shawn Michaels, who as a face is ironically a great heel because he's such an asshole.

[Strummer]

Randy Savage in 1987/ 1988 WWF. Specifically in his matches against big guys like Andre and OMG. Savage was so good at selling and especially long term selling. He would sell well after a match was over. I would also mention his match with Bret in late 87.

 

Shawn Michaels/ Marty Jannetty in AWA and WWF. Watch any match against Summers and Rose in 86 or Warlord and Barbarian in 89 to see how to sell. Shawn was such a great seller back then until he had to change to conform to what Vince wants in his top babyfaces (no selling, pandering, not showing weakness)

 

Marc Mero in 1996 WWF. Odd choice but he was so good at this time at selling, especially in his match against Hunter at Beware of Dog.

[Loss]

Michaels became more flashy when his singles push started, but he was definitely a more complete wrestler from 1986-1991 than he was after, although I'm much in the minority for saying that. Michaels is perfect for tag team wrestling, because he has cool moments, although he really isn't the type of worker who I think does well in long singles matches because there are so many logic gaps throughout.

 

The Rockers v Somers/Rose feud is a great example of Shawn's talent in that area, as are the Rougeaus and Brainbusters matches in '89. And strangely enough, my favorite matches from Shawn post-1992 (aside from the Mankind match and the two Ramon ladder matches) have been tag matches, either with Austin against Owen and Davey Boy, or with Diesel against Razor and Kid.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

Bullfuckingshit.

 

Hogan was great at being a babyface.

 

Fuck you, fucking motherfuckers.

 

Andre/Hogan WM III, Hogan gets his ass whooped and sells every beating so visually that Andre's limited offense becomes deadly. Andres moveset was actually pretty diverse, despite his limitations, as he didn't use a lot of the same moves over and over again. I'd give specific examples, but it's been about a year since I've seen it last so I can only talk in generalities - but these were the distinct impressions that I got from watching it. Hogan selling the beating to the crowd, and then rallying them back for the finish and them going nuts for him shows how good of a babyface he was. When people *jump up and down* after you've won, you did a good job as a babyface.

 

And most of Hogans heelish spots were "what's good for the goose..." spots.

[sek69]

Hogan was great at making the guys he faced look like monsters, but he really wasn't a great babyface per se.

 

Jesse used to call him on it all the time, how he'd be using heel tactics and the face announcer would accept it because he's the great Hulk Hogan.

[Loss]

Hogan used to suplex and clothesline Sensational Sherri, a woman less than half his size. He relied on outside interference and a biased referee against Earthquake at Summerslam '90. He weaseled out of locking up with Andre at Survivor Series '87 out of fear. He used chairs, without provocation, against both Vader and Brutus Beefcake in WCW.

[Guest Sass]

Freddie Blassie vs. John Tolos.

 

That feud helped turn Blassie, who was one of the top heels at the time, into a mega babyface after Tolos "blinded" him. Blassie was Stone Cold before Austin even knew what it was.

[The Thread Killer]

That, and the fact that all his "all my Hulkamaniacs" bullshit was so see through. I was a 14 year old kid when he won the title, and I didn't buy him. To be a wrestler, you have to be a great actor, and Hogan wasn't...I'm sorry. His promos were goofy, and I could just tell he didn't give a shit. Remember his pointing to his hand and shouting "THIS IS WHERE THE POWER LIES!!!" What the fuck was THAT?

 

I remember the Rockers vs. Reaugaus feud, where they were attacking Marty's leg, and Shawn Michaels laid over the guys leg to protect him. Now THAT was a face move. That got me to feel bad for The Rockers for the first time ever.

[JHawk]

Hogan used to suplex and clothesline Sensational Sherri, a woman less than half his size. He relied on outside interference and a biased referee against Earthquake at Summerslam '90. He weaseled out of locking up with Andre at Survivor Series '87 out of fear. He used chairs, without provocation, against both Vader and Brutus Beefcake in WCW.

I agree with all of that aside of backing away from Andre at Survivor Series 87 out of fear. I'd go with the biased referee theory there, as Joey Marella ruled a high five to Ken Patera to be a legal tag.

[Guest Sass]

Hogan's a giant phony. All he cared about was the money (and his own family), which is why his heel turn helped turn WCW: he was just being himself. Hogan acted *waaaaaay* more natural as a heel than he ever did as a babyface in the WWF or WCW.

 

Hogan's just too big of a real life bastard outside of the ring to convince anyone he'll stand up for someone else other than himself.

 

I saw through this fascade when I was 6 years old and that's why I loved Ric Flair and the NWA more since at least Flair was being honest with the fans unlike Hogan. Hogan acted so goddamn goofy in the WWF as opposed to his work in the AWA where he actually didn't go off the deep end (his Wrestlemania 4 promo is one of the most cracked out, non-Warrior, promos in wrestling I have ever heard).

[Loss]

I remember the Rockers vs. Reaugaus feud, where they were attacking Marty's leg, and Shawn Michaels laid over the guys leg to protect him.  Now THAT was a face move. That got me to feel bad for The Rockers for the first time ever.

That was awesome. It was even more awesome in the famous 6/9/95 tag in AJPW. It's amazing that you can feel sympathetic for someone the size of Kenta Kobashi.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

Everything you guys are saying, of course, is in contradiction to his massive appeal and success as a babyface. Whether or not you, or a small minority of the wrestling audience, disliked or "saw through" Hogans character doesn't really matter when the vast majority, infact, liked and were convinced that Hogan was a pure, 100%, good guy.

 

Sherri was evil. Earthquake was twice his size and also evil. Vader? Evil. Beefcake? Evil.

 

Hogan also had a platonic relationship with Miss Elizabeth and when she got injured, he carried her to the back like a true good man would do. When Savage hid behind Miss Elizabeth, Hogan didn't deck her. Why? Because she was good, not evil.

[sek69]

Hogan didn't garner a sympathetic babyface reaction like others mentioned . Other than the time he got squished by Earthquake, I don't recall Hogan ever getting any babyface sympathy from the fans.