Microstatistics Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 I have always considered the Tamura/Han series to be the Flair/Steamboat of shoot-style, but in fact even better (by a small margin though). Was wondering what others thought about it. Also I know Flair and Steamboat had some matches in March 89 but I am specifically referring to Chi-Town, Clash 6 and Wrestlewar for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 I think Tamura had better matches with Kohsaka and Yamamoto myself, even if I do think the Han matches are pretty great. I think from a match quality perspective it's definitely possible, but Flair-Steamboat was sort of a torchbearer rivalry for all of wrestling. Han and Tamura were considered -- right or wrong -- more as torchbearers just within their wheelhouse. I can see re-evaluating that, but I think that's the biggest difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I think Tamura had better matches with Kohsaka and Yamamoto myself, even if I do think the Han matches are pretty great. I think from a match quality perspective it's definitely possible, but Flair-Steamboat was sort of a torchbearer rivalry for all of wrestling. Han and Tamura were considered -- right or wrong -- more as torchbearers just within their wheelhouse. I can see re-evaluating that, but I think that's the biggest difference. I actually agree that Tamura had better matches with those guys. I might actually like the 1/98 Ilioukhine match more than any of the Han matches at this point. But I also think the Han matches are still like all time all time great matches and have no problem with someone thinking they're better than Flair/Steamboat as a whole. I'll have to think more about it before saying for sure, but I certainly think Han/Tamura are working with a higher degree of difficulty. I also agree with the point about these being torchbearer rivalries but I think Flair/Steamboat was as much a torchbearer for its style as Tamura/Han. I think Flair/Steamboat was the prefect summation of wrestling's "best" past and Han/Tamura was the perfect summation of wrestling's "best" future we didn't get to actually see. Because of when the feuds happened, Flair/Steamboat was a glimpse to the past. In a world with Fujiwara & Maeda, Jumbo & Tenryu, El Dandy & Hijo del Santo, what Flair & Steamboat were doing wasn't really "state of the art." It was the culmination of the previous era's style. Because of the way things worked out in Japan, Han/Tamura in a way kind of represents the high point of a dying style. But Tamura/Han felt/looks state of the art for its time. That starts to get built on with Tamura's matches with Kohsaka & Yamamoto but then the style basically dies out when shoots take off and we don't get to see where it was all heading (which was probably to all shoots anyway). So I have no idea which to vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I think Tamura had better matches with Kohsaka and Yamamoto myself It's not just that *Tamura had excellent matches with Kohsaka and Yamamoto*. Han also had absolutely amazing matches with them, one you could easily argue were better than the Tamura matches. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka and Yoshihisa Yamamoto were great wrestlers. Personally I would still have Tamura/Han as the best RINGS series even if I think other pairings may have peaked at a higher level, Tamura vs. Yamamoto in particular with their 6/24/1999 being my pick for best match of all time. Man-a "best RINGS matches/feuds/wrestlers/anything" project would rule. but Flair-Steamboat was sort of a torchbearer rivalry for all of wrestling. Han and Tamura were considered -- right or wrong -- more as torchbearers just within their wheelhouse I was going to bring up how heavily intertwined this was with narrative creation and whatnot and how many similar matches are often easily dismissed by many here but let's not get into that ever again please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I think Tamura had better matches with Kohsaka and Yamamoto myself, even if I do think the Han matches are pretty great. I think from a match quality perspective it's definitely possible, but Flair-Steamboat was sort of a torchbearer rivalry for all of wrestling. Han and Tamura were considered -- right or wrong -- more as torchbearers just within their wheelhouse. I can see re-evaluating that, but I think that's the biggest difference. I agree that the Yamamoto match is better than the entire series but yeah I meant in terms of quality based on how good the matches are individually and the series as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I'm positive Han vs Tamura doesn't have my favorite RINGS match. I'm also pretty sure it isn't my favorite RINGS feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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