Guest The Metal Maniac Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 So I got this buddy of mine to watch Kobashi/Hansen (I dunno the date, but the finish is three backdrop drivers) and he seems to be quite interested in Japanese wrestling now. However, my knowledge of the subject is somewhat limited, so I thought I'd ask you guys: What are normally considered the best matches of all time in Japan? I know that there's a lot of Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi/Taue combinations in there, but I'm awful for dates and that sort of thing, and I haven't seen most of those matches anyway. I don't need a perfect list or anything, just a couple of matches that people would mention as a potential "best match ever". Even a few NA ones would be good. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 70s... Billy Robinson-Giant Baba 1976 Jumbo-Funk 1976 80s... Choshu/Saito v. Jumbo/Tenryu 1/86 Jumbo-Tenryu 6/5/89 90s... Misawa-Kawada 6/3/94 Misawa/Kobashi v. Kawada/Taue 6/9/95 Misawa/Akiyama v. Kawada/Taue 12/6/96 Misawa-Kobashi 1/97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Choshu/Saito v. Jumbo/Tenryu 1/86 It's Yatsu, not Saito. I have a My __ Favorite Matches thread in the Match Reviews folder you may want to check out. Of stuff I've seen, ranked by years with star ratings, dates and promotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Metal Maniac Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Sounds good. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Just a few Japanese matches that come to mind. There are others but I've watched too much Japanese wrestling and a lot of it blurs together for me. That and I can't remember dates. These are common picks with just a little bit of influence from me. If it was just my picks the matchlist would be different. Remember, what's the best match for one person is not the best match for every person. Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask 4/21/83 Lyger vs Sano Blow off match but in actuality the whole series should be watched because it might just be the best series ever for displaying clear meaning from match to match Benoit vs Sasuke J Cup Thunderqueen AJW vs JWP Kandori vs Hokuto Dreamslam Ozaki/Kansai vs Yamada/Toyota Dreamrush Ozaki/Kansai vs Yamada/Toyota Dreamslam II Ozaki/Fukuoka vs Hotta/T.Inoue 12/92 AJW vs JWP on JWP's turf Michinoku Pro These Days 10/10/96 Kobashi vs Misawa 1/20/97 Kobashi vs Hanson 7/29/93 Kandori/Hokuto vs Aja Kong/Bull Nakano Manami Toyota vs Kyoko Inoue forget the date Sakie Hasegawa vs Toshiyo Yamada 3/3/94 Kobashi vs Williams 8/93 and I'll give a nod to their 9/94 match too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Choshu/Saito v. Jumbo/Tenryu 1/86It's Yatsu, not Saito. I have a My __ Favorite Matches thread in the Match Reviews folder you may want to check out. Of stuff I've seen, ranked by years with star ratings, dates and promotions. Yeah yeah. Sue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 I was going to make a bunch of recomendations, but I have an even better idea, which is a much easier way to help out. CLICK HERE. That is a pretty complete list of all of the greatest matches in AJPW from 1990 - 1999. If you were to get all of the matches that are rated 5 Stars by Meltzer, you'd have yourself one helluva jumping off point. Then you'd know who you like, and where to look from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 The thing that I think people are starting to finally realize, though, is that great wrestling has happened for decades in places besides Japan. Sure, the AJPW stuff is awesome beyond awesome, but it's merely one style. There is so much other stuff out there, specifically in Mexico and from the territory days, that doesn't get nearly the hype, and some cases where the peak stuff is as good as AJPW's peak stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 My biggest problem with that Loss, is that for me, it's been very hard to find information and then access to those kinds of matches. There are good resources out there if you're looking for information about the best AJPW stuff...and easy ways to get the matches once you've identified what they are. I have Barnett's Best of AAA in the 90's collection...but beyond that, I don't know where to get any information on which are the best Lucha matches to see, and anywhere to get them easily. Ditto for the territory days. If there were some easy to find sites that listed the best stuff from Mexico and the Territories, and then a good resource to get them, I'd probably go after some more stuff. From what I have seen, people around here have put together some excellent comps in the chronicles folder, but I have nothing to trade them for these tapes and DVD's and no technology to do so, so that leaves me out in a lot of cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 The thing that I think people are starting to finally realize, though, is that great wrestling has happened for decades in places besides Japan. Sure, the AJPW stuff is awesome beyond awesome, but it's merely one style. There is so much other stuff out there, specifically in Mexico and from the territory days, that doesn't get nearly the hype, and some cases where the peak stuff is as good as AJPW's peak stuff. What the "The Thread Killer" says is very true and I think a lot of people would agree with that. It's criminal for example that a lot of people haven't seen the more full versions of the Benoit/Smith matches. It's criminal that I have't seen more lucha libre than I have. Some of that's going to be rectified thanks to the generosity a member of the board here and the deathvalley project so that's terrific and all but bottom line is it's tough to know and get everything out there. There's just that much out there. I wouldn't have it any other way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kevin Cook Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 http://www.smarkschoice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6104 This is a thread I started to pimp some lucha that some others joined in on. These aren't all necessarily great matches, but they all have some specific aspects that make them worth going out of your way to see. Some tremendous lucha: MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana 1983 El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas 1997 El Dandy vs. Negro Casas 1992 El Dandy vs. Negro Casas vs. El Hijo del Santo 1996 Blue Panther vs. Atlantis 1991 Blue Panther vs. El Mariachi 1995 Blue Panther vs. El Hijo del Santo 2004 Atlantis vs. Villano III 2000 There are about a billion great trios matches to shill, but I'd recommend any of the Angel Azteca/Americo Rocca/Javier Cruz vs. Chavo Guerrero/El Dandy/El Texano matches from 1990 (there are a few of these, and they're all awesome) as worth going way, way out of your way to lay hands on. All the one on one matches I listed above would hold up against pretty much anything you'll ever see from any country, though, and all except the Santo/Panther match are readily avilable from Jeff Lynch, Alfredo Esparza or Bob Barnett. None of this, by the way, is anything even remotely like the sort of lucha you'd expect from watching the AAA guys on Nitro. That always gets recommended to people, and it's great stuff, but think of it this way?if someone liked Jerry Lawler and Terry Funk but had never seen any Japanese wrestling, would you be more likely to recommend them some Great Sasuke or some Jumbo Tsuruta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monday Night Jericho Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 That Santo/Panther match '04 is from Britain, right? Any idea how I could go about getting my hands on it? What do you think of the 4/00 & 5/00 Panther/Santo matches from Monterrey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kevin Cook Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 I picked the Santo/Panther matches up from goodhelmet in a trade; I'm not sure where else they'd be available and I don't have a DVD burner right now unfortunately. I haven't seen the Monterrey matches in a couple of years but they're tremendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 MNJ knows where to get a hold of me You can either pick up the individual disc or wait until Tim and I finish collaborating on a Blue Panther comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monday Night Jericho Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Yeah, Blue Panther comp sounds great. I'd definitely buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 From my experiences, stick with the big guys and the neck drops. All of my friends couldn't really "get off" on the Super J Cup tournaments and the like. However, they fell in love with Misawa, Kobashi & Kawada. Hansen too. Of course, they really liked Scott Norton and Vader at the end of his career too. They just seemed to like the big, stiff brawls that had a lot of stuff they haven't seen before. The cruiser stuff, I don't know, I guess that's because of the stigma they've received here in the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 The best matches to watch starting out that exemplify the difference in US cruisers and Japanese juniors are the Liger/Samurai and Liger/Sano matches, because they're really fierce brawls with a clear face and a clear heel. Then, maybe look into guys like Benoit and Guerrero, see which opponents people like best of theirs and then expand beyond that. 80s NJ juniors don't get as much love as their 90s counterparts, but they were pretty great themselves, and most of them went on to be heavies anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Metal Maniac Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Thanks for all the help. You guys all rock. I dunno about the Jrs stuff...like, my buddy watches TNA and is impressed with the high-flying moves, so I think he could dig the Jrs stuff. Besides, I dig the jrs stuff. I *love* watching Great Sasuke, even though I've only seen a handful of his matches. We'll check some of it out, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 NJ juniors are a little more stoic than the Michinoku Pro guys overall, so I think M-Pro makes a better starting point. The Heartbreak commercial video (covering 9/96-12/96) is actually the best starting point for non-US juniors stuff I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kevin Cook Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Personally I think 80s NJ juniors stuff with guys like Takada, Hase and Koshinaka is better than 90s stuff by a huge ginormous amount, but a lot of that is just my individual taste. There are some good comps of the New Japan vs. UWF feud and the 88 Best of Super Juniors available from most DVD dealers and traders that highlight the style and the key players very well, and it's worth checking out even if you prove not to like it as much as some people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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