83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff

[SomethingSavage]

I haven't listened to Bischoff's podcast in a good while, but the recent Aces & Eights episode caught my attention. So I gave it a go. They had Bully Ray on as a guest, and I've mostly enjoyed his takes on Busted Open as well.

The disparity between the peaks and valleys of Bischoff's podcast have been incredible, looking back. All the highs were amazingly engaging - the AWA stuff, the Collision in Korea, the early TNA topics, etc. - but the lows have been fucking dreadful - the weird Pillman takes, the Bret talk, the faulty memory, etc.

Anyway, just for context, I was watching TNA fairly faithfully around the time of the Aces & Eights angle. I won't retread all that here, but I mostly enjoyed it for what it was. WWE wasn't doing much for me in 2012 and 13, and I was getting my modern wrestling fix from TNA, PWG, and NWA Hollywood. Say what you will, but TNA felt like they had momentum with some things. The Jeff Hardy redemption saga, the Austin Aries rocket to the top, the Roode turn, James Storm as a hot singles act, and yes... just what the hell were the Aces and Eights going to be.

This podcast was a little all over the place, but I didn't mind. There's a 20 minute chunk (or more) wherein they just discuss the modern stuff with Vince and Roman coming up. Still, they do a serviceable job covering the stable itself.

I forgot just how many scrubs and scabs they put into the group. That's definitely one aspect that made them appear second rate and somewhat out of place. Eric tried to defend it as going for "intimidation", but I'm not sure Garrett and D'Lo quite match that description in 2012.

Bully Ray talks about them originally building to an in-ring showdown between him and Hogan. I absolutely thought that was the direction at the time, but i don't mind that we never got it. I think a ten man tag or something similar to highlight Hulk getting his hands on Bully could've worked, but I'm not entirely sure it was ever necessary. The angle and the story was leading there, but Hogan at that stage only had a finite amount of magic left to administer.

And, for anyone doubting that Hulk could still command a crowd or work a passable match, check out the Sting blowing from Biund For Glory 2011. I know it's not technically Hulk's last match, but it exists as such in MY head canon because *chefs kiss*. It was brilliant. And tremendous. It's very much everything people wanted from the Hogan/Sting WCW showdown. And they pull it off with diminished resources in front of a much smaller audience. But i don't care. I unabashedly loved it.

Bischoff lets Bully and Conrad do most of the lifting here, which is probably for the best. Eric does get in a good point about ANTICIPATION being the secret sauce of pro wrestling, which I wish more people would adhere to, if I'm being honest. He's referenced it before, but it's totally true. It's the art of promoting. I'm not sure Eric himself ever quite mastered it either, but I do believe he's at least always AWARE of it.

Without going into too much of a tangent, it's something I feel lacking in today's product. When you've got to force out so much content, where's the anticipation? When it's just an endless treadmill of rematches (and the drive is to get ANYTHING out there to fill time), then where's the focus? What's the hook?

Is it good wrestling matches? Is that enough? For some people, I guess it is. But the vast majority don't give enough shits about a high spot or a cool move to watch the actual shows for them. They'll just watch the clip or the isolated GIF instead. I just don't feel like the anticipation of anything being treated like a big deal anymore.

I have gotten inkling of it with AEW (but only recently, and only since the Punk return). I've caught their last three big shows in succession, and inalways find myself excited for them when they come around. But yeah. I never find a rhyme or a reason to watch any of the shows in between. Maybe that's a symptom of just being an adult with other priorities. Or maybe it's a side effect of there simply being too much repetitive, monotonous wrestling out there. It's all very samey and all very irrelevant. I still get excited to watch that one show every two or threebmonths, but that's enough.

And yet still I'll gladly spend my two hours a day in the gym with shit like this in my ears. So I don't know. I'm still weirdly fascinated by it all, I guess.

Anyway, this was a solid listen. It doesn't match up to some of the early episodes, and I can definitely understand how Bischoff's podcast has fallen down the charts. He doesn't seem that dialed in, and his topics look really redundant.

Oh. There's an awesomely awkward moment where Bully is his usual self and puts Conrad on the spot. He days today's business is full of YES MEN and tried to get Conrad to admit it. The Alabaman Dream crawfishes his way around the question, but I cracked up.

They also talk briefly about the Chris Sabin title run. God, I remember hating that when it happened. On the surface, it felt like a total try-hard moment wherein they were attempting to force Sabin into the same spot Aries got himself the year before. It just didn't click. Aries' rise felt natural and organic. Sabin's felt super contrived and artificial.

But here, Bully suggests that it was done strictly to keep the peace with Sabin after TNA wouldn't pay for his back to back surgeries. I never heard that. Was it covered in the newsletters of the time? Because the timeline matches up (they were under fire for the Daffney Unger stuff, as well as the Jesse Sorenson treatment), and I could totally buy it as being true.

[SomethingSavage]

Also, if we're going with the Sons of Anarchy analogue (which Bischoff blatantly admits, and rightfully so), then I think it it's ultimately bad casting that hurt and hindered the group. Some of the storytelling and the pacing was well done, but yeah. The casting and the reveals were one misfire after another.

Bully was put into the Jax Teller spot almost as a given or an afterthought, but really he was fit for the Clay mold. The group still called for a younger, dynamic guy to break out. Ken Anderson was eventually put in that spot, but he wasn't the guy. Garrett and Wes Brisco weren't equipped for it. But they could've really used someone, and THAT person should've been the one to swipe Brooke Hogan away from Hulk, etc.

Bully, as much of a tremendous heat magnet as he was, just seemed like a strange pick for that whole angle. I dug the dynamic he had with a smoking hot Brooke Adams, but the thing with Brooke Hogan was just... I don't know. Weird.

[El-P]

Funny Bischoff would talk about anticipation relating to this particular angle, because although it was the drizzling shit from start to finish on pretty much every level, one of the many, many issues was it was drawn out FOREVER. It took 6 months before the crew was basically unveiled as NPC under masks led by D-Von, who was nothing but a midcarder at this point. And nothing is worse than having a bunch of guys under masks for months, because no one cares about guys under masks for too long. Then it took ANOTHER 6 months of repetitive nothing matches and beatdowns to get the amazing reveals of NPC without masks (wow, the former Festus, wow, Mike Knox, that's incredible ! Can you believe the retired D-Lo Brown is part of this amazingly dangerous band of misfits and WOW ! Garrett Bischoff and Wes Briscoe !). And then there's the swerve-bro (which is so ironic since Russo wasn't working for them anymore, yet the big main event angle was all about a swerve) and like 8 months or so of the group peaking with Bully as the champ and then dying a slow, painfull death. Of all my TNA watch, this Aces & Eights stuff is by a wide, gigantic margin, the worst, most boring, fast-forward worthy, damaging shit that the company went through in term of main program. It's no wonder after one year of this the company began its financial downward spiral and by the end of 2013 the Carters wanted to sell the company.

55 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

Bully, as much of a tremendous heat magnet as he was, just seemed like a strange pick for that whole angle. I dug the dynamic he had with a smoking hot Brooke Adams, but the thing with Brooke Hogan was just... I don't know. Weird.

Well, actually, the only thing I kinda enjoyed of this whole entire borefest was the stupid soap opera drama with Brooke Hogan, as I thought she was actually kinda fun in this. Also, the idea of Hogan worried about his girl dating the "wrong guy" was so funny to watch with hindsight. 

Brooke Tessmacher I felt sorry for, because she had gone from being a sex-toy for Bischoff (yeah, that was actually her character and yes, Russo was still booking then, to the surprise of no one) to working super hard as an in-ring worker and actually overdelivered in that role (working Gail Kim always helps but still), and now she was back at being used as "Hey, look at her ass !". But then again, it's not like the booking did any woman any favors during that time anyway (women tag-team championships on ODB & .... Eric Young, again, that's Russo level shit)

2 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

They also talk briefly about the Chris Sabin title run. God, I remember hating that when it happened. On the surface, it felt like a total try-hard moment wherein they were attempting to force Sabin into the same spot Aries got himself the year before. It just didn't click. Aries' rise felt natural and organic. Sabin's felt super contrived and artificial.

But here, Bully suggests that it was done strictly to keep the peace with Sabin after TNA wouldn't pay for his back to back surgeries. I never heard that. Was it covered in the newsletters of the time? Because the timeline matches up (they were under fire for the Daffney Unger stuff, as well as the Jesse Sorenson treatment), and I could totally buy it as being true.

Never heard that one before, interesting (and totally sounds something TNA management would do). I took it as them trying to have their "Lex Luger beats Hollywood Hogan before losing the belt back two weeks later" moment. Yeah, it was absolutely from nowhere, wasn't built at all and wasn't organic in the least. Did not help that Sabin was made to look like a scrub during the match (I mean, he had a great babyface performance, but he got so little offense and won by cheating). Not to mention this was immediately forgotten and he was put back straight in the X-Div. Which, well, is exactly what they did with Aries too after losing the title to Hardy, which was a big misfire, but it's obvious then had no plan for Aries anyway, but at this point they had missed their shot with James Storm and someone had to end the endless reign of boredom that was Bobby Roode on top. 

[SomethingSavage]

I dug the Roode reign on top, and I love that they played the hot hand by going with Aries as opposed to the more predictable option in James Storm. I think Storm had a window there, but he's a guy who already got a cup of coffee with the belt and could've gotten back there the following year.

I actually think Storm going BACK heel and being revealed as the Aces and Eights second in command (eventually surprising Bully) wouldn't have been the worst decision.

Totally agreed on all the reveals. One or two of those guys would've been acceptable, but overall it felt very disappointing, flat, and underwhelming.

I still get the idea that Bischoff was going for anticipation and suspense. It wasn't entirely successful, especially the longer they drew it out. Agreed there. But I get the seed of his idea. Again, that goes back to him being AWARE of an element without ever really understanding how to harness it. The nWo was a perfect storm that he's chased again and again ever since. Right place, right time. Aces and Eights wasn't that.

I dug the Brooke Hogan story, too. Billy being the bad boy at the center of it was a little baffling and a bit of a miscast for me. That's all I'm saying. Anderson had the brash arrogance to fit the bill for that part, but he was so diluted by then. A dickhead like Aries or maybe even a dance hall cowboy like James Storm could've done that, but neither guy was in a position to be a heel right as that thing was taking off. So I don't know. I'm just spitballing.

Sabin felt like a desperate attempt to recapture the Aries moment from a year before, but yeah. Good call on the Luger throwback as well.

[SomethingSavage]

Even though I never bought Bully as the attractive bad boy to lure Brooke Hogan away from daddy's 24 inch pythons, I still ultimately enjoyed the hell out of his work during the time.

And I will say this - as wonky as it was, I'll gladly take Bischoff's Aces and Eights in TNA over Prichard's knockoff version of the group in WWE that featured the likes of Slapjack and Tire Iron and Jumper Cable and... oh I don't know, whoever the fuck they had attack a generator on TV that time.

[SomethingSavage]

Every now and then, Bischoff will deadass crack me up with one of his off-the-wall observations. He's talked before about Jarrett's birdcage gear looking like a dick dancer or airbrushed tights looking like county fair knockoffs, and he got me again by describing Diamond Dallas Page as that fun but loud guy at a house party who you don't want to ask to leave - but you also secretly wish he wasn't there also.