Rey Misterio Junior

[Guest DylanWaco]

Because I am bored, here's a "Gordy List" I did on Misterio three years ago.

 

1. Was he ever regarded as the best draw in the

world? Was he ever regarded as the best draw in his

country or his promotion?

 

No.

 

Some might say he was the biggest drawing factor of the succesful WCW cruiser division, but that still would put him well behind Hogan, Flair, Piper, and others during that run for the company.

 

He was a big part of the succesful Tijuana garbage run, but most accounts tend to credit that more to the product than the wrestlers involved.

 

His ECW run would also fit the Tijuana standard.

 

He may have helped pop attendance on a couple of WAR shows in the mid-90's, but he was never a full time performer for that company.

 

2. Was he an international draw, national draw

and/or regional draw?

 

He was a fairly succesful supporting draw on all three levels, but he was probably never the top draw for any U.S. show, and would only fit that billing for Mexico/Japan a handful of times (if at all).

 

3. How many years did he have as a top draw?

 

He was never really a top draw as stated above.

 

His biggest impact as a supporting draw was probably 95-96 when was involved in some very good business in Tijuana, as the lead player in the WCW cruiser division, and some fairly succesful Japanese shows.

 

4. Was he ever regarded as the best worker in the

world? Was he ever regarded as the best worker in

his country or in his promotion?

 

Rey Jr. was never regarded as the best worker in the world by a general consensus, but there is a reasonable argument that he could have been a contender for that title in 99, which also happened to be the weakest year in years for quality work.

 

As early as 94 he was considered one of the top twenty or so best male wrestlers in the world in many circles, but his status as a truly great worker wasn't fully solidified until the years of 95/96/97 when he became a staple star of AAA and in U.S. rings.

 

95 is a tough year to judge. He certainly wasn't up to par with the big three of AJPW, and Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko and even Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart were considered his surperiors by many, but he didn't have to compete with the career years that others would have the next year. He wasn't the best this year, but he may have been a reasonable top 10 choice looking back (though top fifteen seems a bit more accurate).

 

In 1996 which is generally thought of as his best year, he had several good-to-great matches with Psicosis, Juventud, Malenko, Ultimo and Liger amongst others. At the time his spotty/lucha style was fairly new to U.S. fans, and his explosiveness and crispness of execution were at their peak.

 

Unfortunately for Rey, 96 was a huge year for quality work worldwide. In Japan Ohtani was having his best year, while Kobashi, Misawa and Kawada were producing more of the same greatness that we'd come to expect from them in years prior. Liger was also at the top of his game. Ultimo was generally considered to be at least Rey's equal, and depending on who you asked Sasuke, Taue, Akiyama and even Taka Minchinoku were thought of as better than, as good, or close to as good as Rey. And that's without touching the Joshi scene.

 

In the States Rey faced the problem of a growing trend toward quality work in U.S. rings (that sadly wouldn't last). Michaels, Benoit and Guerrero were all thought of as his surperior at the time, though a solid argument could be made that Misterio had more high quality matches that year than any of them. Malenko was generally considered his equal, and Foley, Austin and Psicosis were considered by a reasonable amount of fans to be "nibbiling at his heels".

 

His best argument in 96 may be in Mexico. I confess to being alot less farmilar with lucha then I am with puro or the American scene, but looking back the consensus at the time seemed to be that Rey, Psicosis and Juvi were all running neck and neck, with Rey generally garnering the most support.

 

Overall, despite having more high quality matches in 96 than many people generally rated above him, the consensus was that he was a "middle tier" worker, considerably below the AJPW guys, Ohtani, Liger, and in many circles Michaels, Benoit and Guerrero.

 

His working peers would have been considered Ultimo and Psicosis, not Misawa and Kawada.

 

97 was probably more of the same for Rey, though he did have the best match of his WCW stint in October of that year, he was still generally in the same 15-25 range that he was thought of for most of his career.

 

All in all in breaks down like this.

 

Rey was only really a serious candidate for the best wrestler in the world in 99, which happens to have been the worst year for quality work since 1980.

 

He may have been the best worker in Mexico as early as 94 and it's possible he was in 95 and 96 also.

 

He was never near the best worker in Japan (though his stints there were brief).

 

He was probably the best worker in the U.S. for the first half of 99, but I'm not sure you can go beyond that. In 96 he probably had more four star matches than anyone else in the States, and was almost assuredly the best worker in ECW during his stint there, but the consensus was that Michaels, Benoit and Guerrero were all surperior.

 

5. Was he ever the best worker in his class (sex or

weight)? Was he ever one of the top workers in his

class?

 

This is a tough question, because Rey was so small that he almost inhabits his own subclass.

 

That said if we stick to the traditional definitions, Rey was perhaps the best Junior in the world twice. During the first half of 99, and during his latest run in the WWE. Both of those are heavily debatable, and perhaps would conflict with a consensus, but those are the only two times in his career when he would fit that standard clearly.

 

With this in mind he has consistently been one of the best workers in his weight class since at least 94, perhaps 93. From 93-98 he always had at least a handful of guys who were consistently thought of as better than Rey by consensus, usually being Ohtani, Liger, Benoit and Guerrero, with Ultimo floating in and out of the equation. During that run he was probably never thought of as better than the third or fourth best Junior by a consensus and that may be a stretch.

 

Puting that aside for a moment, there is a general feeling, that either he or Malenko was the best Junior in the WCW version of the division in 96, with many people leaning toward Rey, but this is skewed by the decision on the part of the company to keep Eddy and Benoit out of the division.

 

6. How many years did he have as a top worker?

 

93-present.

 

I'm not totally farmilar with his work before 93, but I don't think he was as highly regarded before then as he was after.

 

His presence as a top worker now is also a bit misleading, because the standard of quality work is drastically lower than it was just a few years ago. If Misterio were performing on the level he is now in 96, he likely wouldn't have been thought of as a top fifty wrestler.

 

7. Was he a good worker before his prime? Was he a

good worker after his prime?

 

Though his run as a top worker started in 93 and lasts till today, his prime is probably best identified as 94-97.

 

With that said Rey was a good worker before his prime, but there is no indication based on what I've seen that he was of a standout quality for the lucha product, aside from 93.

 

In his post prime Rey is in the akward position of being a worse worker, but a stronger candidate for "top worker" status than he was at various points during his prime due to the decline of wrestling.

 

This isn't to smash Rey's abilities. He's easily one of the best workers in the WWE right now, and probably in the world also. The standards just aren't nearly as high.

 

8. Did he have a large body of excellent matches?

Did he have a excellent matches against a variety of

opponents?

 

I don't think there was another Junior who had more high quality matches on U.S. soil in the 90's than Rey Jr. In 96 alone he had a string of four star matches, beginning with his ECW run that easily rivaled what Shawn Michaels was doing in main events during his "career year".

 

His matches with Juvi, Psicosis, Eddy and Ultimo are considered some of the best of the 90's by most everyone.

 

He was perfectly capable of carrying limited Juniors like Super Calo and Kidman, but had difficulty producing quality with larger opponents, largely because of the drastic differences in size.

 

9. Did he ever anchor his promotion(s)?

 

Not really. There is a strong indication that he was one of the big players during the succesful Konan-promoted Tijuana run, but he was never thought of as the lead player.

 

During his U.S. run he's never been close, though he was clearly the anchor of the junior division.

 

10. Was he effective when pushed at the top of

cards?

 

He was certainly effective when pushed at the top of garbage cards in Mexico, but again the product was considered the primary draw there.

 

His expierence with top level pushes in the states has been very limited, and never for sustained periods of time. He had a brief run against Nash in WCW and a brief run sharing the top of the Smackdown cards, but neither did particularly strong business if memory serves.

 

11. Was he valuable to his promotion before his

prime? Was he still valuable to his promotion after

his prime?

 

Before his prime I have trouble commenting on seriously, due to a lack of knowledge. He certainly wasn't the player he would be later, but as far as I know he was generally considered a solid undercard performer.

 

After his prime he has been pretty valuable in solidifying two junior divisions, and has continued to produce quality matches, but hasn't really drawn any money.

 

12. Did he have an impact on a number of strong

promotional runs?

 

He certainly was an impact player in Tijuana.

 

The Junior division was considered at the time to be a pretty solid compliment to the NWO, and was at it's peak when Rey was it's top star.

 

13. Was he involved in a number of memorable

rivalries, feuds or storylines?

 

The Malenko, Psicosis, and Juvi storylines were all quite memorable for fans of quality work. They also all had a big part in solidifying the base for junior wrestling in the U.S.

 

The Jericho and Nash storylines were also fairly memorable, but less so for work than for story.

 

14. Was he effective working on the mic, working

storylines or working angles?

 

Rey was pretty well protected from the mic in U.S. feds. I'm not entirely sure why, as his mic skills aren't particularly bad, but the mystique definately has more appeal when he's silent and behind the mask, where he was very effective as a Tiger Mask style babyface.

 

15. Did he play his role(s) effectively during his

career?

 

He was a very solid anchor for the most succesful junior division in this country in years.

 

By all accounts he appears to have been quite good at his various roles in Mexico as well.

 

16. What titles and tournaments did he win? What was

the importance of the reigns?

 

He was a multiple time WCW cruiser champion, where the division was almost entirely worked around him from 96 on.

 

He was also a WCW tag team champion with Kidman. The run really wasn't important at all, but it did feature some very good matches.

 

His current run as the Smackdown cruiser champ was hyped as a big deal when it happened, but hasn't proven that significant so far.

 

I'm certainly missing some Mexican championships and I believe he also had a TV title run in WCW, but I'm not really an expert on his run in Mexico and don't want to butcher it.

 

17. Did he win many honors and awards?

 

He was the Torch Mexican MVP in 95 and 96.

 

WON MOTY last year

 

WON MOTY runner up in 96

 

WON ROTY in 92

 

PWI MOTY runner up in 97

 

18. Did he get mainstream exposure due to his

wrestling fame? Did he get a heavily featured by the

wrestling media?

 

He certainly hasn't gotten in mainstream exposure in this country. The wrestling media has covered him, but not anywhere near the levels of the major heavyweights.

 

19. Was he a top tag team wrestler?

 

Well he was in the consensus MOTY last year, which was a tag team bout. And he was in a very strong working tag team with Kidman in 99. But I don't really think either thing qualifies him as a particularly standout tag performer.

 

20. Was he innovative?

 

Definately.

 

A case could be made that Misterio was the most innovative flyer since the time of Tiger Mask in Japan.

 

The whiplash speed and percicision of his moves was unscene in U.S. rings when he hit the scene in 95. The top rope springboard huracanrana , amongst other wild moves, were rarely if ever done before Rey hit the scene.

 

21. Was he influential?

 

Yes, but it's dificult to say how influential he has been.

 

His biggest fans would likely say he's been of the most influential wrestlers of the last ten years. He certainly brought high flying to a more extreme level, popularized certain moves, helped to pave the way for the U.S. of more foreigners, and was a main figure in the return of junior wrestling to this country.

 

At the same time he was never really a top of the card figure and his influences haven't been proven to draw money.

 

It's really hard to say how influential Rey has been, though there is no doubt that he was influential.

 

22. Did he make the people and workers around him

better?

 

He certainly made limited workers like Prince Iaukea, Blitzkrieg and Kidman look better when working against them, but he wasn't really capable of dragging a much bigger opponent to a good bout because of the size limitations at play.

 

A case could probably be made that he greatly enhanced the level of workrate in U.S. rings just by being here though, and certainly that would have been a positive effect on others.

 

23. Did he do what was best for the promotion? Did

he show a commitment to wrestling?

 

Rey is a mystery here.

 

He was willing to drop his mask to Nash for no good reason whatsoever, which shows an OBSCENE commitment, but he also was involved in some major power rifts in Mexico and some bizaare behind the scenes things in WCW.

 

Rey is a mixed bag here.

 

24. Is there any reason to believe that he was

better or worse than he appeared?

 

There is some reason to suggest that Rey was better than he appeared in 1996. The general consensus at the time was that Benoit, Guerrero, Michaels were better, but he probably had as many or more quality matches during the year than all of them.

 

Aside from that the record is pretty clear on Rey.

[Loss]

Rey has obviously strengthened his candidacy considerably in the past two years, although I would have considered him a HOF-er before that just because he did play a very strong role in smaller guys who aren't great interviews getting work in the US. In the past two years, he's been the top draw in the promotion - arguably, either him or Cena - for the past several months, and definitely the attraction on Smackdown. He is one of the top merchandise sellers in the company, and his feud with Eddy Guerrero succeeded in adding not just 1.5 million new viewers on average, but an entire new demographic as well. Even then, while he hadn't had many chances on top, in 2003, he had the match with Matt Hardy where he won the CW title, which was one of the most watched wrestling matches of 2003 (I think it was only behind Kane unmasking against HHH).

 

His reputation for being a professional and doing what is asked of him is also pretty sterling. He actually was supposed to lose his match in '97 at Havoc, but got the idea changed at the last minute. He was told he was losing his match in '99 and there was no getting around it if he wanted to keep his job.

 

I'd say he's been either the best or second best in the world (Guerrero was better in 2004, but they were neck and neck in 2005) for much of the last two years, with a second prime completely different than the first. A 5'3", 140 lb guy not only main evented a Wrestlemania, but won the WWE title. He wasn't effective in the role because he is the worst-booked world champion in the entire history of pro wrestling, but he stayed over and is still capable of drawing despite jobbing for no reason so many times.

[Guest DylanWaco]

I think he was a borderline pick when I did the list. Now, even if the bar hadn't been lowered so much via Angles inclusion, I think he's a fairly easy pick. While he's not the most influential wrestler of the 90's he was no doubt influential. He's proven to be a draw, in a time period where there aren't really alot of clear cut draws anymore. He's been one of the five best in the world at minimum for the last few years and I think he's been the best in the world this year.

 

When I did that list it was in response to the suggestion that Vader was a far better candidate than Rey which I didn't understand at the time (I think Vader may have been a better candidate, but I don't the gap was particularly large). Vader is someone who I think belongs in the HoF, but I don't think he's a top rung guy. Not sure where Rey fits in in the scheme of things, but I think he should go in.

 

I wonder what kind of support Jericho is going to get?

[Guest Primo Matarazzo]

he is the worst-booked world champion in the entire history of pro wrestling, but he stayed over and is still capable of drawing despite jobbing for no reason so many times.

Funny that Dylan should mention Jericho. That's immediately who sprang to mind and who I expected Loss to say has been the worst-booked champion in recent memory. I haven't been keeping up lately but in what ways did they book Mysterio, Jr. as champion that was actually worse than Jericho's run?

[sek69]

 

Vader is someone who I think belongs in the HoF, but I don't think he's a top rung guy.

 

 

Only counting his US work, I'd agree with this. If you include his Japan work, I wouldn't agree. He's been a top level guy over there longer than he was a star in the US.

[Loss]

True, but I'd actually say Vader's best career run was in WCW. The fact that he's been able to make the same style work in CMLL, UWFI, WCW, NJPW and AJPW is an incredible feat. Who else could work in all of those places without really changing all that much?

[kjh]

I haven't been keeping up lately but in what ways did they book Mysterio, Jr. as champion that was actually worse than Jericho's run?

Would have lost the World title to Kurt Angle if Mark Henry hadn't attacked Angle on the April 28th Smackdown, lost to Mark Henry cleanly on May 5th, completely squashed by Great Khali on May 12th, laid out by Kane on May 19th, lost to Kurt Angle by count out on June 2nd, lost to Finlay fairly cleanly on June 9th and laid out by Mark Henry on June 30th and July 7th. Basically being made to look like a complete jobber who is lucky to even have the title.

[Loss]

Jericho did a lot of jobbing too, but most of the time it was at least to set up a future match. Rey just did random jobs without retribution on a regular basis, like any other midcarder.

[Mad Dog]

True, but I'd actually say Vader's best career run was in WCW. The fact that he's been able to make the same style work in CMLL, UWFI, WCW, NJPW and AJPW is an incredible feat. Who else could work in all of those places without really changing all that much?

Steve Williams.

[Loss]

Doc never worked Mexico or shoot-style, and his US matches aren't near Vader's. He's a guy who was good at times in Mid South and great at times in All Japan, but mostly just there. I like him, but he's no Vader.

[Mad Dog]

He was the only guy I could really think of. Though he essentially had a similar roughneck style.

 

As for Misterio, I always thought WCW should've given him the upset win over Flair on that springbreak Nitro episode. He was riding some momentum after unmasking and I think he might've slowed the ratings slide. DDP kind of was helping things as champion but Nash had to fuck everything up again by giving himself the belt.

[Loss]

Flair had the belt at that point for no other reason than ratings were down and they wanted someone to blame for it. Bischoff said as much on WCW Live at the time.

[anarchistxx]

I think him doing the jobs is a good reason he's stayed over. People have legitimate sympathy for him because of it. He was getting some boos at Wrestlemania and I believe the show after, so I think the losses were done for a reason, since a lot of people were questioning Rey's legitmacy as World Champion.

 

Oh, and I'm not 'Daryl Devaney' on SC by the way.

[Guest DylanWaco]

Flair had the belt at that point for no other reason than ratings were down and they wanted someone to blame for it. Bischoff said as much on WCW Live at the time.

Oddly enough Flair was consistently the best ratings draw WCW had with the possible exception of Goldberg.

[Guest DylanWaco]

True, but I'd actually say Vader's best career run was in WCW. The fact that he's been able to make the same style work in CMLL, UWFI, WCW, NJPW and AJPW is an incredible feat. Who else could work in all of those places without really changing all that much?

Owen Hart.

[Loss]

I don't recall Owen Hart ever working lucha libre or shoot style. He did work British style though.

[Guest DylanWaco]

I don't recall Owen Hart ever working lucha libre or shoot style. He did work British style though.

Don't think he ever worked shootstyle.

 

I don't know how much lucha work he has, but he does have a match with El Canek, a clipped version of which is available via the youtube thread.

[Resident Evil]

I don't recall Owen Hart ever working lucha libre or shoot style. He did work British style though.

Don't think he ever worked shootstyle.

 

I don't know how much lucha work he has, but he does have a match with El Canek, a clipped version of which is available via the youtube thread.

Owen and Benoit were opponents for some tag matches in Mexico so there are some more mathches you can put under Owen's Mexican resume.

[Mad Dog]

I don't think it works with Owen because he changed his style a lot once he started climbing the WWF ladder.

[Guest DylanWaco]

I don't really think he changed his style at all, it's just that injuries and circumstance (being in tag teams for example) forced him to tone down the same style.