Mad Dog Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 It's kind of surprising this hasn't been mentioned more lately. It was a big deal last year that this was the next national promotion battle. But the last few months have been totally glossed over for the most part. The UFC has in less than a year beaten the WWE in PPV buys. UFC 60 and 61 have both outdrawn Wrestlemania. An average UFC PPV now draws more than an average WWE PPV. WWE still draws bigger tv ratings but they get no money from that and UFC has a higher % of viewers spending money on their PPVs. Like I said, I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 What's funny is it seems WWE has gone back to its strategy of pretending the competition doesn't exist. Maybe UFC should start giving away the endings of WWE matches top get their attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Primo Matarazzo Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I don't see how you can call the two "competitors." WCW, ECW, TNA...I can understand. They were the same product. UFC is a legit sport. That'd be like asking why WWE doesn't acknowledge the NBA, MLB, NFL and NHL. Just like those so-called "competitors" would look silly mentioning WWE, so would UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I agree with CJ on this. UFC is more successful, but they're hardly a competitor of WWE and vice-versa. Their fanbases are different, and so are their competitors, for the most part. Aside from a few exceptions (i.e. Ken Shamrock, Brock Lesnar) I think we're not going to see too much of either sport's athletes jumping ship from WWE to UFC and vice versa. That's something that can and will still happen between WWE and TNA, but not the two companies in the subject line. Chuck Liddell and Matt Hughes likely won't go to WWE. John Cena and Triple H even more likely won't go to UFC. Half the time, I think all this competitive talk of WWE vs. UFC is a result of Dave Meltzer covering MMA, and a lot of the wrestling internet fanbase equating UFC as a threat to WWE. If PPV buyrates means competition, let's throw boxing into the mix too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 This thread happens once a week over on Sherdog.net. Once a week, a mauling occurs. A lot of hardcore MMA fans HATE pro wrestling. I had this discussion with RRR over on TSM before also. Bottom line is, Dana White doesn't consider WWE to be competition. He's apparently on good terms with Shane and comps him, Foley and Bradshaw when they attend events. He gave UT a backstage pass to meet the Miletich guys after UFC 40 I believe. He has thanked Vince in print for helping to build the PPV base since the 80s. He doesn't consider them rivals so why should we? In my eyes it's just wrestling fans looking to compare apples and oranges because they can't compare apples to apples right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Razz Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 If working in the same venues mean anything why not compare the numbers of ticket sales for the Anaheim Pond. Did the Tito Ortiz headline shows outsell WWE shows held in at the Pond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Useless fact... wrestling is not cool. Talk to a teenager about wrestling and they will wince. Talk to them about UFC and their eyes light up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Useless fact... wrestling is not cool. Talk to a teenager about wrestling and they will wince. Talk to them about UFC and their eyes light up. MMA is real, brutal and the personalities aren't created by other people. Wrestling has people being KO'd by giant "Judo Chops". MMA has people being KO'd by vicious ground and pound. People prefer exciting real fights over staged prolonged exhibitions. It may be down to the fact WWE exposed themselves doing Tough Enough while TUF has educated people about the realities of commitment to training to achieve in the UFC, it may just be the emphasis of reality TV over staged events over the last few years, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingPK Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Well you always hear the WWE talking about how they are in competition with everything that is on TV, so why not extend that to PPV buys since I doubt many people can afford the $80+/month to order both shows and have to make a choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 While I see the non-comparison point of view between WWE and UFC pretty easily, I also understand the other viewpoint pretty clearly. Both are in the business of promoting matches to the public through buildup and interviews, and UFC is currently better at promoting. WWE could probably learn a thing or two from UFC in terms of freshening up their presentation. Time to face facts -- the pro wrestling we grew up on is totally and completely dead. Thank God for DVDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Man in Blak Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Useless fact... wrestling is not cool. Talk to a teenager about wrestling and they will wince. Talk to them about UFC and their eyes light up. I've got a wild theory about this (and other parts of media and culture, actually). After September 11th, the demand for more cartoony forms of entertainment receded to a renewed interest in more realistic entertainment. You can see it in video games (less space marines, more tactical shooters), other forms of TV (less science fiction on mainstream channels, more reality TV), and you can see it in the demand for wrestling, an entertainment outlet that had gone above and beyond to ensure its fans that kayfabe was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingPK Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I think you might be thinking about it too much, MiB. I think it's simply that they (WWE) have just been pushing the same guys (HHH, Michaels, etc.) for almost a decade while teasing the fans by giving pushes to new guys like Eddie and Benoit but pulling the rug out under them a short time later and both casual and longtime fans got sick of it. I agree that wrestling and UFC fans are completely different animals, but I was (and still am) a wrestling fan that was sick of WWE and got sucked into the UFC because of TUF and the Spike shows and I can't possibly be the only one that has happened to. EDIT: I mean, they had the PERFECT setup in 2000, but then Vince bought WCW and put his petty feud with Turner ahead of buisness, and wrestling in North America still hasn't recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Man in Blak Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Sure, they had the setup for a perfect storm in 2000, but hadn't the interest in wrestling from a casual standpoint already started going downhill by that point? What were the combined numbers for WWF and WCW through 1999 and 2000 (if we agree that '97-'98 is the peak of interest)? This, of course, completely contradicts my point about 9/11, but it'd be interesting to see the numbers, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I understand that they aren't really the same thing but they are going after a similar fanbase. As I said earlier. Nearly all of my friends that gave up on wrestling when WCW died are now watching the UFC like they used to watch wrestling. I think the WWE would find more of their fans than they realize watching UFC instead of them now. Wrestling should be worried. Look at what was happening in Japan before Pride got booted off tv. The fanbase had lost interest in wrestling in favor of MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kevin Cook Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Of course they're competition. I think most everyone here knows Cornette's "four groups" theory. UFC has all the group three fans right now and is starting to eat into the group two fans as well. The third is just a matter of star power; Chuck Liddell is the new Steve Austin in a way no one in the WWE can be, and that's something that just falls into your lap or doesn't. The group two people should worry McMahon; those people would be watching WWE right now if WWE wasn't godawful. I think UFC has the potential right now to almost entirely kill off WWE's domestic business. Whether they'll do so remains to be seen, but they very much are in competition, and on the bright side competition is the only thing that's ever spurred McMahon to put on shows worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rob Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 I haven't watched any wrestling in years. I think the main problem with it is overexposure. Due to roster constraints and lack of originality, it would be impossible for the WWE to put on 6 hours (9 on PPV weeks) of quality program on a weekly basis. They basically killed themselves by exhausting every interesting/entertaining concept in such a short period of time. The UFC on the other hand, has TUF which is 1 hour, 13 episodes, two seasons a year. And they have approximately one PPV/Ultimate Fight Night each month. A guy like Chuck Liddell at most fights three times a year. The WWE Champion, fights around 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 I think that is one aspect of the UFC's success. They have a roster of exciting fighters, none of whom get over exposed as the most any one competitor fights is maybe 4 times a year between PPVs/UFNs. It's not great for lower paid guys on their roster but sponsorship helps out some of the guys on the lower tier. They only train hard maybe 6-8 months a year maximum so they don't suffer the same wear and tear, fatigue or injuries as WWE guys and they are constantly motivated because their own achievements will lead them to title shots and better pay cheques as opposed to selling merchandise and sucking up to the McMahons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Sure, they had the setup for a perfect storm in 2000, but hadn't the interest in wrestling from a casual standpoint already started going downhill by that point? What were the combined numbers for WWF and WCW through 1999 and 2000 (if we agree that '97-'98 is the peak of interest)? This, of course, completely contradicts my point about 9/11, but it'd be interesting to see the numbers, regardless. 2000 is the most successful year in WWF history. The first quarter of 2001 is the most successful three-month period in WWF history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Man in Blak Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Thank you for the correction, Loss. The group two people should worry McMahon; those people would be watching WWE right now if WWE wasn't godawful. The worst part about it is that, by losing the group two folks to a completely different medium (MMA), they may also be losing the ability to win them back, as those fans may become so enamored with real fights that they never even take wrestling seriously again, regardless of the overall quality of the product offered by the WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingPK Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Sure, they had the setup for a perfect storm in 2000, but hadn't the interest in wrestling from a casual standpoint already started going downhill by that point? What were the combined numbers for WWF and WCW through 1999 and 2000 (if we agree that '97-'98 is the peak of interest)? This, of course, completely contradicts my point about 9/11, but it'd be interesting to see the numbers, regardless. 2000 is the most successful year in WWF history. The first quarter of 2001 is the most successful three-month period in WWF history. Yeah, that's what makes it so frustrating. The Royal Rumble was a great show, that year's Mania is regarded as one of the best ever and drew nearly 70,000. And didn't the InVasion PPV garner over a million buys as well? But then they go and fuck it up by first turning Stone Cold heel and completely botching it by teaming him with HHH when they were tearing each other apart no more than three months ago, and then the massive fuckup called the InVasion. It wasn't "market forces" that led to this funk, it was WWE not shooting itself in the foot, but taking a machete and hacking it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rob Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Looks like we lost a few posts in here, but based on the responses I saw on the other board, we have at least 3 people who could actively discuss UFC/MMA. Definitely no need for a sub-folder or anything, maybe we could just post a couple OAO threads in the Sports folder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Sounds like a plan. I'll hopefully be able to post stuff here I can't on Sherdog without getting into trouble with the admins there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I'd be up for talking MMA when every topics come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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