WO news and notes

[goodhelmet]

ECW PPV notes...

 

-Paul Heyman has a proposed script for the 6/12/ PPV and is the creative point man with Vince, Ross, Johnny Ace and Dreamer as overseers.

 

-Heyman wants as many authentic names as possible, including TNA talent, but Ace is against using TNA-contracted guys. Vince hasn't made a decision on this yet.

 

-Heyman wants to use old ECW referees, ring announcers, Atlas security, and the old ECW entrances and lighting.

 

-There has been talk about Foley being apart of the PPV in a match as Cactus jack but Foley would prefer to do a promo and the Socko bit he is doing on indy shows. If he does a match, he wants significant money because he only has a few real matches left and he would be expected to put on a good match. If he appears on the show in any form, it would be considered a positive.

 

-They are looking at reviving old rivalries but the idea is to have good matches not have an old-timer's nostalgia show like the ones in Memphis and the Carolinas.

 

-Possible matches include Rey Mysterio vs. Psicosis (or Juvi); Tajiri vs. Super Crazy

-Benoit & Guerrero would be used against other top notch workers.

-Taz, RVD, New Jack (and if signed) Shane Douglas and Sandman would be limited to cameos

-Lance Storm, Dudleys, and Masato Tanaka will almost def. be wrestling on the show.

They are looking for appearances by as man yECW wrestlers as possible although there is very little interest in using some guys inc. Johnny Grunge.

 

-Dreamer will probably do a weapons match since one is needed and is in charge of locating and contacting talent.

 

-If the first show does good business (with videotapes being sold as proof) they will likely run another.

[Strummer]

much appreciated, great stuff

[goodhelmet]

Details about the dissenting points of the Lesnar lawsuit...

 

- WWE denied it ran the to dominant brands in wrestling (SD! and Raw) and only admitted to owning them

 

-WWe denied that no other pro wresling promotion provides meaningful competition to WWE in either promotion or production.

 

-WWE said it had insufficient knowledge that Lesnar wrestled at Bismark State Jr. College where he was an All-American in '97 and nation al Champ in '98

 

_WWe denied Lesnar's claim he was Big 10 champ in 99 and 2000, NCAA runner-up in '99 or NCAA champ in 2000 or that he wrestled at the University of Minnesota (WTF?)

 

-WWE admitted that Lesnar performed OVW wrestling exhibitions but denied the wording of Lesnar's claim that through March of 2002, Lesnarperformed OVW wrestling exhibitions and events throughout his contract.

 

-Lesnar's original contract would prohibit Lesnar from working for WCW or any Turner or Time Warner company.

 

-Lesnar claims the terms ultimate fighting and sports entertainment are not defined in the settlement agreement but WWE contends Lesnar knew the meaning of both temrs when he signed.

 

-Lesnar claimed that while he was cvaluable to the company, he was not special, unique or irreplaceable. Meltz claims Lesnar was special and unique but not irreplaceable. Lesnar backs this up with the fact that there were 15 champions during his tenure (WWE claims 13, Meltz claims 14). WWE responded by saying that titles are not rewarded to individuals but used solely to continue storylines and to maintain fan interest and promote performers.

 

-Lesnar claims that WWE is never dependent upon the appearance of one individual which WWE disputes.

 

-WWE claims Lesnar diminshed his value by making vulgar hand gestures at WM XX which Meltz says is ludicrous (ie Austin).

 

-Lesnar claims as a professional athlete, he has a limited window of opportunity to maximize his earnings. WWE denies this as well as denyting that Lesnar is 27 and in the prime of his career (?!?!?!)

 

 

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[Loss]

Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. They'll say anything, do anything. The legal point of view they're taking contradicts almost every single aspect of the company. They argue in one breath that they need Lesnar and argue in another that they don't; they argue in one breath that individual names attract fans and argue in another breath that they don't; I can think of dozens of public statements WWE has made off the top of my head that contradict things stated here. I'd love to be working the prosecution in this case.

 

I wonder if they can get a witness to testify that HHH has said openly that he wanted to break Ric Flair's record and win 17 world titles. That would contradict the "reward" line easily, especially when they tie HHH's marriage to Stephanie into the equation, along with his spot in the company.

[goodhelmet]

There are several examples of contradictions in the article that Meltz points out that I didn't include for time's sake but Meltz cuts through the BS on both sides (mainly WWE) and exposes the fallacies.

 

Examples:

The reasons WWE give for saying his old contract is unreasonable are the hand gestures and for leaving the company:

 

The hand gestures: Austin flipped the audience off his entire WWE run. the company made millions. JBL walks like a NAZI in Germany and is rewarded with the world title.

 

Many wrestlers have left for months, sometimes at the company's insistence to prevent burnout, so they can come back. Others such as Austin walked out but were allowed back. The fed claims that walking out cost them irreperable damage but stars have returned from hiatuses to do big business.

 

Meltz also points out how WWE has always contended that 'rasslin wasn't its competitor but that the NFL and Disney were since they were entertainment. But there is no clause that Lesnar can't star in a Disney movie and was even allowed to tryout for the NFL.

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

Re: The ECW PPV

 

It's funny how Vince always maintains that a little competition is good for business and that is the reason he let ECW wrestlers appear on RAW a few times. He also claims that TNA isn't really in their league and aren't WWE's competition, so what's he afraid of? Why doesn't he treat TNA like he did ECW and do talent exchanges? What's Johnny Ace's reason for not wanting TNA guys on the show?

 

I like what they've got lined up as talent on the show so far but one question remains: JOEY STYLES. If he's not commentating it's not going to be an ECW PPV. Period.

[goodhelmet]

More gossip on the Edge/Lita/Hardy front...

 

-Edge's wife sent nasty e-mails to the McMahons for protecting him.

 

-Edge wrote some emails to friends that were released by his wofe.

 

-Edge felt Hardy slashed his tires on his rental car in Fayetteville a few weeks back but Meltz says there is no evidence Hardy did it.

 

-Edge claimed Hardy wouldn't even look at him because he was afraid of getting the "faces" beat out of him.

 

-Edge is laughint at internet reports that he is upset at crowd chants but is publicly staying quiet.

 

-Edge blames Hardy for turning the situation into high school.

 

-Internally, most people side with Hardy and are shunning Edge.

 

-Most of the Heat has gone on Johnny Ace because he was perceived as having a grudge against Hardy for a year. Ultimately, he made the wrong call and had a grudge but Meltz thinks Vince had the final say on all of this.

 

-Last weekend, over 11,000 people had signed the internet petition to rehire Hardy.

[Guest Some Guy]

Edge is such a fucking prick.

 

The Lesnar thing is a bunch of horseshit at this point. He'll end up back in WWE as part of a settlement and eventually be sporting a World Title again. I actually tend to side with WWE on this one symply because they gave him a huge developmental and then a huge WWE contract soupled with a monster push and he fucked them over on short notice. I;d be willing ot bet that if he gave them proper notice and asked for a week or two off to get his head straight they probably would have given it to him after WM, but he chose to walk out and now wants back in on his terms, I don't see that as right.

 

The ECW PPV will probably be a fun little show if they do it right but if they aren't willing to get behind it as an actual brand, like giving Heat to ECW they are pretty much wasting their time. I thought that they blew the ECW deal worse than WCW. Peopl actually still like ECW when it died and wanted to see it. If Vince gave Heymen an hour on Sunday I think he could do better than the horrible rating Heat does now. The ECW DVD proved that there is a marker for it and if they let Heymen roll with it, gave him RVD and a few other ECW alums on the current WWE roster, along with a handful of developmental guys Heymen would make some stars for them.

[goodhelmet]

Here is the reasoning Meltz feels that the ECW PPV could end up being a bad idea...

 

-Comparing it ot the AAA When Worlds Collide PPV that WCW produced. It doesn't do good for the company to produce a show that blows its current product out of the water from a quality standpoint.

 

-If this show manages to outdo the "B'show PPVS (I am assuming he means the Balcklashes and Badd Blood PPVs) without any WWE champions or money players than Meltz feels that the knives and second-guessing will be everywhere esp. since it will feature people not even under contract under WWE. he brings up the Invasion PPV where the Alliance team had the Dudleys, Booker T, DDP and Rhyno but none were elevated to main event status because of politics.

[Loss]

The knives need to come out, quite honestly. HHH's view of the company needs to be challenged, with recordable proof that the fans want something different than they're getting. It may not change anything, but if something wildly different draws a good buyrate for them, the company will have no excuse for not knowing what the fans do and don't want to see.

[Guest Some Guy]

Loss, they won't pay any attention to it. The intitial part of the Invasion angle drew huge, then they gave people exaclty what they did not want, the numbers dropped and then kept on spitting in the fan's faces. HHH, et al will find a way to spin it. "Well, Vince the only reason people bought the show was because of nostalgia..."

[Loss]

Nostalgia will be a large part of it, I'm sure. You'd think Vince would be aware of the fact that there's a guy who's main event run has now eclipsed HULK HOGAN'S initial WWF main event run in length always telling him bad stuff about everyone else in the company, but Vince is an interesting character. His entire life is this wrestling stuff, and I don't think it's possible to live entirely in the wrestling business without suckering yourself somewhere along the way. Vince is living proof of that, and since he's probably never had a real friend, he makes friends with his top guys, so he's far more vulnerable than one would think by looking at him, because he looks like he has it all together. Anyway, enough of my psychoanalysis.

[Guest Some Guy]

Sure, nostalgia will play a big part in it but if they put on a good show and people buy the DVD then they might be able to turn it into a money maker show.

 

I'm sure Vince is much more sensative than he lets on. I'd bet that he didn't really want to what he did to Bret, but he did and then played it off like he loved it. Vince is a strange guy.

[Loss]

I think he has this mentality that weakness isn't weakness unless someone can see it, but by overcompensating so much to cover it up, he makes it even more obvious.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

Re: The ECW PPV

 

It's funny how Vince always maintains that a little competition is good for business and that is the reason he let ECW wrestlers appear on RAW a few times.  He also claims that TNA isn't really in their league and aren't WWE's competition, so what's he afraid of?  Why doesn't he treat TNA like he did ECW and do talent exchanges?  What's Johnny Ace's reason for not wanting TNA guys on the show?

 

I like what they've got lined up as talent on the show so far but one question remains:  JOEY STYLES.  If he's not commentating it's not going to be an ECW PPV.  Period.

I believe Styles comfortable makes six figures in his current job (I heard he runs a glazing and window replacement company or something along those lines) and doesn't want to be involved in a half arsed ECW product ran by the WWE.

 

If Edge is doing all this and is the guy that dumped the drink on Amy Weber (as Matt Hardy claims, so apparently not Orton after all) the fact they are letting him get away with all this says a lot about how the company rewards their shitty employees and fires their hard working but suffering ones.

[goodhelmet]

More tidbits... (I'll type up as much as I can before I need a break)

 

- The Prime Minister of Japan named Atsushi Onita's band. He named it the "Onita Band"

 

-Meltz talks about Dusty Rhodes' appearance on FSR's Sports Extravaganza show. In the show, the hosts asked him if he still went to wrestling matches. It seemed they had no idea he actually booked for a promotion... on the Fox NEtwork!!! Later a caller called up and asked if Susty still talked to Dustin and if he was still wrestling. Again, completely oblivious to TNA. (Will's note: I caught the last 5 minutes of this interview on my lunch break the other day and it was hilarious. Fox hosts not knowing that Dusty worked for TNA which ran on Fox. Dusty was allowed to promote his book and the upcoming PPV events and the show on Fox. when asked who he would want by his side in a dark alley, he mentioned Dusti nfirst because he was family and then threw out Terry Funk and Harley Race as true tough guys)

 

-Meltz gave Angle-guerrero form last week's SD! a ****1/4 rating, hurt mainly by commercial breaks.

 

-He mentions how Cena came across looking better as champion n the TV after Mania.

 

-Meltz's impression is they are trying to get Heidenriech over as a crazy babyface, or in his words " a psychotic version of Hillbilly Jim"

 

-Bobby Heenan told friends that Michaels-Angle from Mania was the best match he has ever seen and called both wrestler's afterwards to tell them his thoughts.

 

-Bischoff and Jason Hervey (the Wonder years guy) are pitching a reality show for Fred Durst. Durst wants to get over as a father, businessman and a musician.

 

-They have sent out feelers to see if bret HArt would do the 2006 Hall of Fame. Meltz also guesses they will do the Road Warriors since Mania is in Chicago. Meltz also expects another push for Dusty Rhodes since Dusty turned it down this year.

 

-He is curious to see who will announce the ECW show since Joey Styles has been critical of the WWF product, esp. the Hassan throat-slashing gestures. Styles has had friends killed in 9/11 and hates that angle along with the Un-Americans thing they did a few years back.

 

-For those wondering where Daniel Puder went, he is wrestling regularly on the weekend OVW house shows.

 

-John Tenta, who is battling cancer, is being treated in Houston. He was told he only had 11-18 months to live but after the last round of chemo, the tumor has shrunken to the size of a small dot on the X-ray. (God be with you!)

[Loss]

-Meltz gave Angle-guerrero form last week's SD! a ****1/4 rating, hurt mainly by commercial breaks.

Anybody happen to see this? It's also getting a lot of praise at some of the other boards. It's interesting that Meltzer gave their WM XX match **** and this one ****1/4, so in essence, he's saying they topped themselves here. Would others agree or disagree with that?

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

I saw it, and I thought it was a damned good match. I suck with stars though.

 

The only thing that really bugged me about the match was the fact that Angle kicked out of the Three Amigos/Frogsplash combo. Like, just kicked right out.

 

I don't think people should be kicking out of finishers on TV for no real reason.

 

And yeah, everyone kicks out of the Angle slam, but they've been doing that for years now anyway.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

I thought it was a good match and enjoyed the chair passing-ref noticing-roll up spot. I was getting tired of all the suplexes by the end of the match though.

[sek69]

I agree with CJ, no Joey Styles = not a real ECW show.

 

I wonder if they'll dig up Paul Ellering if/when they put the Road Warriors in the HOF.

[Guest Some Guy]

Probably since Ellering worked for WWF in 98 (managing the Harris Twins), so I imagine they still remember him and have his number.

[Al]

-Lesnar claims the terms ultimate fighting and sports entertainment are not defined in the settlement agreement but WWE contends Lesnar knew the meaning of both temrs when he signed.

Uh oh. I read about a similar case in the Bill James Abstract, regarding the Andy Messersmith case (which overthrew the reserve clause). Basically, one aspect of contract law is that the party that draws up the contract has the responsibility of spelling this stuff out. Anyone else can correct me on this, but I would think this goes in Lesnar's favor.

 

It's funny how Vince always maintains that a little competition is good for business and that is the reason he let ECW wrestlers appear on RAW a few times. He also claims that TNA isn't really in their league and aren't WWE's competition, so what's he afraid of? Why doesn't he treat TNA like he did ECW and do talent exchanges? What's Johnny Ace's reason for not wanting TNA guys on the show?

I'm not sure it's a good idea to put opposition wrestlers in the same ring with your guys, for the same reasons I spelled out in the Edge/Matt Hardy thread. Still remains to be seen what they do. Of course, all corporations say they like competition, but do not mean it.

 

-They have sent out feelers to see if bret Hart would do the 2006 Hall of Fame. Meltz also guesses they will do the Road Warriors since Mania is in Chicago. Meltz also expects another push for Dusty Rhodes since Dusty turned it down this year.

Given that Animal did some work for the dvd, I'd be very surprised if the Warriors are not inducted.