OJ's WWWF/WWF thread

[ohtani's jacket]

Pat Patterson vs. Sgt. Slaughter (WWF, 8/1/81)

I'm not sure why they ran the Alley Fight in Philly three months after the New York bout, but I thought this was a much better bout. The build was smarter and they used better transitions. The chokes came latter in the bout and somebody remembered the Cobra Clutch. It was the same basic finish with Slaughter's bladejob and the cowboy boots, and that was probably more shocking in New York, but add the mutant Philly fans at ringside and Dick and Kal doing a better job of calling the match than Vince, and I give it to the Spectrum. 

Now, if you took the body of the match from Philly and added the finish from New York, you'd get the Dr. Frankenstein version of the bout. 

[Ricky Jackson]

I need to watch that one again. I've only seen it once, about 10 years ago. I rewatched the April Philly match recently and really liked it.

I've also often wondered why there was such a gap between the first match and the Alley Fight in Philly (3 1/2 months). The Backlund main events on the May and June shows were nothing major (Mosca, Steele) and drew poorly, so it's not like they had a hot title program that couldn't wait and were intentionally saving the Alley Fight for later

[Chess Knight]

I don't think I've watched that Philly one, and the last time I watched the MSG one I still thought it was really good but also felt a little flat in the middle for some reason. Maybe I'll like the Philly one more too.

[ohtani's jacket]

Andre the Giant & Tony Garea vs. Sgt. Slaughter & Moondog Rex (WWF, 4/18/81)

This was fun, to an extent. It would have made more sense if it had set up the Slaughter vs. Andre singles match since the result left everyone frustrated. The faces were frustrated, the crowd was frustrated, the ref was frustrated, this viewer was frustrated. Andre clearing house after the shitty finish wasn't the same as Andre clearing house in a live match. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Pat Patterson vs. Sgt. Slaughter (WWF, 4/6/81)

Here's another Patterson/Slaughter match I didn't know existed prior to the Alley Fight. This has some really good brawling in it. I'm not really a Patterson guy but he was fantastic in this. He went after Slaughter like a man possessed and manhandled the ref as well. There was a great shot of a woman cheering Pat on during the figure four spot. The Cobra Clutch sequence wasn't as good as the Philly bout, but chalk this up as another bout I prefer to the Alley Fight. I really think they missed a trick not using some of these spots in the Alley Fight. 

Incidentally, I used to think the MSG matches were the pinnacle of this era of WWF and that Philly was the leftovers. I was hugely impressed by solo Vince the first time I heard him commentate late 70s matches. However, I'm starting to enjoy Dick & Kal a hell of a lot more than solo Vince. During the bout, I kept wondering how Kal would react to the action. We talk about stock rising and falling... Kal Rudman may end up being the biggest mover once it's all said and done. 

[Ricky Jackson]

That's one of the great things about this era, New York and Philly each have their own flavor. Dick and Kal, plus the camera work, which employed more close ups and ringside filming, gave the Spectrum shows a different vibe. MSG just feels important, like a game at Yankee Stadium. Vince solo isn't always great here, especially in the 70s, when he would just not talk for several minutes at a time. I think his best work from this time is actually his selling of big angles on the weekly TV. Another plus is you often get slightly different matchups at each arena, like the great Larry Z vs Putski feud in Philly 

[ohtani's jacket]

Pat Patterson vs. Ken Patera (WWF, 4/21/80)

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed this. Is this the first great Intercontinental Title match in WWF history? Granted, it was a lot better when Patterson was on top as opposed to the brief moments where Patera was in charge, but that's okay. Patera was an excellent bumping stooge for a guy his size and Patterson was an amazing offense seller for a guy who had an incredibly limited repertoire. Patera's win was cheap, but I suspect that was part of the strategy. He could have easily controlled long portions of the match if they'd wanted him to look like a killer. 

[JerryvonKramer]

Incidentally, if OJ ever gets to the "Battle of Atlantic City" (Andre / DiBiase vs. Scicluna / Jerry Valiant (7/26/79)), I've been sporadically writing in a question to DiBiase's podcast asking 1. Why they booked Atlantic City, 2. Why it was taped and aired.

 

This remains a complete mystery. I recall it being better than it had any right to be.

[ohtani's jacket]

Pat Patterson vs. Ken Patera (WWF, 12/29/80)

I wish we'd gotten more from this feud, but Patera went on to challenge Backlund immediately after winning the IC title. This had the makes of a decent scrap, however the card appeared to have gone long and they had to work an 8 minute bout as a result. Not exactly the return match I was looking for. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Hulk Hogan vs. "Dr. D" David Schultz (WWF, 6/17/84)

Loss mentioned this match in his newsletter this week. It's notable for Hogan returning to Minneapolis as the WWF finally invaded AWA territory and sees Hogan square off against an old AWA foe. Hogan hadn't really worked out his formula yet, and it's interesting that his comeback came mid-way through the match instead of during the finishing stretch, but it's a pretty good smoke and mirrors match with Hulk bleeding and Schultz garnering some decent heat. Personally, I felt that Hulk got better at these types of matches after a couple of years on top. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Adrian Adonis & Dick Murdoch vs. Brian Blair & Bob Backlund (WWF, 7/7/84)

Quite a strange match for Backlund to sign off with as he spends much of the bout on the apron watching Brian Blair do the heavy lifting. Adonis & Murdoch are quite good in this. On the few occasions where Murdoch and Backlund squared off, I wondered what it would have been like if they'd taken that matchup around the horn. I'm still in two minds about whether there was a place for Backlund in the Rock 'n' Roll era. I'm fairly sure they could have done something with him for at least a couple of years. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 5/31/86)

This was a decent Killer Bees/Hart Foundation match, but what made it really special for yours truly was that Dick Graham and Kal Rudman got to call it. It wasn't vintage Dick & Kal, but it still made a guy feel good. The faces winning with heel tactics is a very Rock 'n' Roll era move. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 2/8/86)

Not my favorite era of WWF wrestling, but I'm a mission to watch Killer Bees matches. This is from Boston. They never get out of second gear, but it's a decent bout and there's some decent Bret vs. Brunzell action. Gorilla and Jesse call the match, but they haven't got their schtick together yet and it's pretty toned down by Gorilla and Jesse standards. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Hulk Hogan vs. Bob Backlund (WWF, 4/12/80)
Hulk Hogan vs. Bob Backlund (WWF, 5/10/80)

I really love these matches. They're slow burning Bob Backlund matches worked in his typical style (like "baking a cake" as he'd put it.) They don't lead to anything decisive -- they trade count out wins -- but it's fascinating hearing Dick and Kal call the matches with no idea what the future will bring. Hearing them gush over Backlund while dismissing Hogan as a 25 year-old kid is amusing. You forget how huge of a human being Hogan was until you see him wrestle Backlund. There were moments where I'd stare at the screen and think "Jesus, Hulk Hogan had a huge head." Hogan, for his part, was pretty good. If he hadn't turned face and become the biggest star in the business, he would have carved out a pretty decent living as a heel, especially if he'd begun cutting promos like Superstar Graham. 

[Ricky Jackson]

Yeah, I've always been high on these matches, especially the first one.

I've always found it hard to wrap my head around Hogan as a heel at this time. He basically looks the same as the superhero Hogan of the later 80s that I first encountered, so to my brain everything about him screams babyface. You can see why the fans would soon embrace him, because he's not really hateable in the way the top heels of the day were

[ohtani's jacket]

Now that you mention it, he doesn't use a lot of heel shtick in the matches and doesn't really cheat that much. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 2/17/86)

This is arguably the Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation match. It's certainly the bout that made me think there was merit to watching the rest of their matches. This is where it all clicked. 

The Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 3/23/86)

This was a truncated version of the 2/17 match. I don't like it when the Hart Foundation wear blue, but the work was solid and I liked the finish. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF SNME, 11/28/86)

I never got to enjoy Saturday Night's Main Events as a kid. The only time I saw anything from it is if it was recapped on Superstars. I can only imagine the excitement of watching these shows live as a young wrestling fan. This was a sprint, but it contained an enormous number of beats for a sub-10 minute match. It was like an edited version of their 5/86 Philly match. Highly entertaining, especially when Jesse blows his top over the Killer Bees' masks tactics. He's completely right, but it's the kind of babyface BS I would have loved as a kid. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 2/23/87)

This was from the year before I started watching wrestling, and while we're inching closer towards the WWF that I grew up on, it still feels like a foreign product to me. The Hart Foundation are tag champs and have Dangerous Danny Davis in their corner along with "The Colonel" Jimmy Hart. This is kind of a slow Bees vs. Hart Foundation bout, though it does feature a bunch of cool front facelock work from Bret, which is my favorite spot from this series, and the Bees' hot tag is pretty good. Gorilla and Bobby talk too much, and you can't really hear the crowd properly. Vlad is in attendance. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 9/10/85)

This was an exciting, action-packed TV match from All-Star Wrestling. It only went four and a half minutes, but it was one of my favorite Bees vs. Hart Foundation bouts. It ended in a brawl after Brunzell hit Bret with his dropkick. It's interesting how much the WWF changed in presentation from 1985 to 1987 despite the fact that this had Gorilla and Jesse on commentary. It was quite an amazing growth period for the company. 

[elliott]

Check out Killer Bees vs Demolition 2/3 Falls 10/9/87 when you get the chance. One of the best WWF tag matches of the 80s. 

 

If you haven't seen my giant list of WWF tag matches to watch here you go:

https://x.com/elliottswrstlin/status/1791979048991703214

[ohtani's jacket]

The Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 2/15/87)

This was a decent Bees vs. Hart Foundation match from the Maple Leaf Gardens. It was a non-title bout, but that worked in the Bees' favour as they got to do their mask gimmick and get one over on the Hart Foundation. The only problem I had with this was that the bees were wearing black tights under their trunks and looked more like bumble bees than killer bees. They also had their custom designed tennis shoes on. 

[ohtani's jacket]

8 hours ago, elliott said:

Check out Killer Bees vs Demolition 2/3 Falls 10/9/87 when you get the chance. One of the best WWF tag matches of the 80s. 

 

If you haven't seen my giant list of WWF tag matches to watch here you go:

https://x.com/elliottswrstlin/status/1791979048991703214

Will do. Got pointed to your list thanks to the Wrestling Playlists newsletter. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 6/2/87)

This was a short Superstars bout where the Bees won after Danny Davis was escorted to the back and the Bees slipped on their masks and did their illegal man trick. Little OJ would have been amped to see this on Superstars. Afterwards, there was a recap of The Honky Tonk Man defeating Ricky Steamboat for the Intercontinental Championship where their pre-Mooney guy, Craig DeGeorge, goes backstage to the heel locker room to capture the reaction. Interestingly, Randy Savage is the most excited heel. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation (WWF, 9/18/87)

This was a match from the Spectrum that aired on Prime Time Wrestling, and actually got a decent amount of time (13:28). It was part of Prime Time Wrestling's build towards the big tag team elimination match at Survivor Series '87. We never got Prime Time Wrestling in New Zealand. I gotta say, I thought it would be flashier. For what it's worth, I thought the Bees were sporting their best look here. Boots, kneepads, and the bee trunks. None of this tennis shoes bullshit.