Loss Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I watched Williams/Gordy vs Windham/Rhodes from WCW SN and really didn't like it at all. I've never heard the Center Stage audience so quiet for a main event, and the wrestling was pretty dull. I don't know why I liked this as much as I did before, but the match did absolutely nothing for me this time around. Dream Rush tag ... just wow. Every time I think I have a new favorite match, I should really watch this again, because I just don't think anything else is close. But I don't watch it for a while and think something else has surpassed it. Newsflash to self: nothing has. Was there a better match than this in the 90s? Even in All Japan, I am thinking of the big matches and they're not quite hitting this level. Toyota and Yamada were great of course, and I loved Yamada's kicks, but the JWP side I thought was incredible. I need to see every JWP match ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I added Liger/Kanemoto vs Ultimo/Orihara from WAR on 12/11/92. I don't really have anything to say about it other than I liked it. Fun, fast-paced tag match with some great stuff toward the end especially. Blood has never bothered me like it did in Muta/Hase. It actively turned me off the match. Plus, I think Hase is much better as a junior. He's not really cut out for these main event heavyweight spectacles, and it's obvious he's forcing himself to work slower than he's comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Loss have you watched Kanemoto v. El Samarai from BOSJ 97 recently? I remember thinking it was wildly overrated at the time,but I watched it a couple of weeks back and thought it was a very good match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hail Sabin Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 What is the date on the Dream Rush tag and are they facing Cutie/Ozaki? I just got Muta/Hase haven't watched it yet, but will give thoughts on it when I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 The Dream Rush tag is 11/26/92 and is Toyota/Yamada vs Kansai/Ozaki. Muta/Hase I expected to like more than I did. I've decided I don't like Hase as a heavyweight unless he's working Hashimoto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Loss have you watched Kanemoto v. El Samarai from BOSJ 97 recently? I remember thinking it was wildly overrated at the time,but I watched it a couple of weeks back and thought it was a very good match. Haven't seen it, it may be somewhere in my DVD collection, and I will watch it when I come across it if it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I watched Misterio/Misterioso/Volador vs Parka/Psicosis/Metal from 3/21/93. The first two falls of this were really bad. Rey, Psicosis, and Parka were good, and Misterioso was decent, but Volador and Metal were horrible and missing nearly every big spot they tried, and it really brought down the match. The third fall saved it somewhat, but that could just be bias over the excitement of Psicosis scoring the win for his team. Either way, very disappointing match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I watched Misterio/Volador/Misterioso vs Psicosis/Metal/Estrada from 4/9/93. Much better match than the last one. I was very excited to see Jerry Estrada, I don't know how such an incoherent wrestler is so good, but he is. The early Misterio/Metal matwork was lots of fun, as was the Rey/Psicosis brawling outside the ring. Volador and Heavy Metal looked much better this time around too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Probably not the right place to ask this, but I've been looking for the 4/27/04 Mysterio v Noble match on your list for a LONG time and can't seem to find it anywhere. Any idea where I can get a hold of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I'm not sure. If it helps any, it aired on Velocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 I watched Liger/Kanemoto vs Kanemaru/Kikuchi from NOAH 01/26/03. Phenomenal match. Jushin Liger is a meanie. Kanemoto isn't very nice either. Whereas you often see guys working in America doing an American style match and mixing in Japanese influences, this is at heart a Japanese style match with really strong Southern style influences. It's the 8/29/02 match that gets the most praise, which I still haven't seen, but I really loved this one. I'm watching a top 25 NOAH matches comp, and this is #25. I'll be shocked if 24 matches are better. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 I understand why Sting/Luger vs Steiners from SuperBrawl has gotten the love, as it was a huge dream match at the time and it was a cool matchup. But it's not really that good of a match at all. I was pretty underwhelmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Oh wow, Liger vs Makoto Hashi from 3/6/04 is another phenomenal match. I'm on a huge Liger kick at the moment, to a point where I'm starting to wonder if it's Liger who's the greatest wrestler of all time. Liger is the master at always knowing his audience, and this was a crowd that wanted to boo him and get behind Hashi, so he gave them exactly what they wanted. I love that most of the matwork and early moves here are so basic, yet executed so well that every move just seems epic. I don't know how good Hashi is, as I've never seen him outside of this match, but working with Liger he looks like he can do anything. It's hard to think of another wrestler who combined being so mechanically awesome with being able to adapt to just about any setting or opponent and having superstar charisma. I've only seen a few things from Liger's 00s, and while it's different than the 80s and 90s Liger in terms of less offense, he's still awesome, and he's still performing at a much higher level than Misawa or Kobashi in this decade. I of course say that only having seen a few things, with lots of skewing, but it's still a favorable impression. I love that the crowd totally thought an inside cradle was going to be Liger's demise. I will admit that I still just don't get the shotey and why it's such an effective finisher, but that really seems minor overall. This is possibly the best match of 2004, I am eager to see how it holds up after rewatching everything else from that year. But those who said Liger's "best match in years" was against Danielson later in the year in ROH either haven't seen this match or are insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I watched Misawa/Ogawa vs KENTA/Marufuji from 04/25/04. Really strong tag match that I enjoyed quite a bit. KENTA has some nerve working exact move-for-move Kawada sequences with Misawa, doing all of Kawada's kicks, blocking all of Misawa's counters in the way Kawada always did, and even wrapping up the sequence with the stretch plum. Marufuji goes for his finisher way, way, way, way, way too often. Ogawa was the best part of the match, cutting off Marufuji's comeback with the thumb to the eye and working most of the match as more of an American-style heel. Great match, but not as good as the other two NOAH matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Surprisingly, Austin/Dude Love from Over The Edge '98 still holds up as a really terrific, well-booked main event. It's not a great match in the classic sense, but it's a very effective, well-worked match, and the wrestling isn't really the highlight, but it is really good, with Foley taking some wild bumps and Austin doing some great comebacks. Even though some of the spots were done to death later, they still feel right here. If they put this much thought into laying out main event matches featuring new champions now, the main events would probably be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Surprisingly, Austin/Dude Love from Over The Edge '98 still holds up as a really terrific, well-booked main event. It's not a great match in the classic sense, but it's a very effective, well-worked match, and the wrestling isn't really the highlight, but it is really good, with Foley taking some wild bumps and Austin doing some great comebacks. Even though some of the spots were done to death later, they still feel right here. If they put this much thought into laying out main event matches featuring new champions now, the main events would probably be awesome. The pop for UT's demolition of the Stooges is still one of my favorite extracurricular spots in wrestling history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 You should see more of Hashi, Loss. He was really good as a plucky young underdog who could sympathetically sell a vicious beating, until his injuries caught up with him after 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Oh wow, Liger vs Makoto Hashi from 3/6/04 is another phenomenal match. I'm on a huge Liger kick at the moment, to a point where I'm starting to wonder if it's Liger who's the greatest wrestler of all time. Liger is the master at always knowing his audience, and this was a crowd that wanted to boo him and get behind Hashi, so he gave them exactly what they wanted. I love that most of the matwork and early moves here are so basic, yet executed so well that every move just seems epic. I don't know how good Hashi is, as I've never seen him outside of this match, but working with Liger he looks like he can do anything. It's hard to think of another wrestler who combined being so mechanically awesome with being able to adapt to just about any setting or opponent and having superstar charisma. I've only seen a few things from Liger's 00s, and while it's different than the 80s and 90s Liger in terms of less offense, he's still awesome, and he's still performing at a much higher level than Misawa or Kobashi in this decade. I of course say that only having seen a few things, with lots of skewing, but it's still a favorable impression. I love that the crowd totally thought an inside cradle was going to be Liger's demise. I will admit that I still just don't get the shotey and why it's such an effective finisher, but that really seems minor overall. This is possibly the best match of 2004, I am eager to see how it holds up after rewatching everything else from that year. But those who said Liger's "best match in years" was against Danielson later in the year in ROH either haven't seen this match or are insane. I'm actually one of the people that thinks he is. Along with Eddie and Dick Murdoch, I could watch Liger all day and not get bored at all. So with that being said, I should probably check this out at some point. Actually, I've seen way less Liger from this decade than I probably should have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Edge/Hardy at Unforgiven. Where in the world did this match come from? This match is crazy, by far the best match I've ever seen from either guy, with Matt Hardy specifically wrestling on a level I'm not sure he ever did before this or since this. There is only one big highspot in this match, which is the legdrop off the top of the cage as the finish. That the match is a hateful, super heated cage match is cool on its own, but considering it's Edge vs Matt Hardy and those guys helped shift the focus toward highspots in gimmick matches, it's even more impressive. The match is really good throughout, even when Edge is in control for probably 5-7 straight minutes. When Matt Hardy begins his comeback and goes insane on Edge when he's tied in the ropes, the match goes from very good to great and never looks back. Lita was a lousy second, you could tell she really didn't want to do this program at all, as she botches a bump from outside and acts pretty disinterested. I'm definitely not blaming her, and it didn't drag the match down at all. Far better than it had any right to be, and honestly, maybe one of the best WWE matches ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Surprisingly, Austin/Dude Love from Over The Edge '98 still holds up as a really terrific, well-booked main event. It's not a great match in the classic sense, but it's a very effective, well-worked match, and the wrestling isn't really the highlight, but it is really good, with Foley taking some wild bumps and Austin doing some great comebacks. Even though some of the spots were done to death later, they still feel right here. If they put this much thought into laying out main event matches featuring new champions now, the main events would probably be awesome.Completely agree. Practically everything in the booking of this match was perfect. Changing stips mid-match, Undertaker keeping Vince honest. And Austin and Foley rose to the occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Edge/Hardy at Unforgiven. Where in the world did this match come from? This match is crazy, by far the best match I've ever seen from either guy, with Matt Hardy specifically wrestling on a level I'm not sure he ever did before this or since this. There is only one big highspot in this match, which is the legdrop off the top of the cage as the finish. That the match is a hateful, super heated cage match is cool on its own, but considering it's Edge vs Matt Hardy and those guys helped shift the focus toward highspots in gimmick matches, it's even more impressive. The match is really good throughout, even when Edge is in control for probably 5-7 straight minutes. When Matt Hardy begins his comeback and goes insane on Edge when he's tied in the ropes, the match goes from very good to great and never looks back. Lita was a lousy second, you could tell she really didn't want to do this program at all, as she botches a bump from outside and acts pretty disinterested. I'm definitely not blaming her, and it didn't drag the match down at all. Far better than it had any right to be, and honestly, maybe one of the best WWE matches ever. I had it three all time for the WWE in the SC poll and in hindsight I kind of wish I had it at one. The match is actually even better if you watch the entire storyline and angle leading up to it, with the three minute concussion angle disguised at a match at SS and the awesome Street Fight on Raw. The fact that Hardy went over in such a decisive fashion by stopping Edge from escaping, kicking out of Edge's finisher, getting revenge on Lita and winning clean with the Super-Legdrop is pretty amazing considering it's the WWE. I've been pimping this pretty hard for a year now and up until this week most people roll their eyes when I tell them how high I rate it. Glad to see I'm not crazy. Also, while I have never had Liger at my number one, he's a guy who is a "safe" all time top five guy for me. The guy is a master at conveying emotion and body language despite working in a full bodysuit and mask which is telling in and of itself. Supposedly the DVDVR guys are really high on his pre-Liger work, and as I recall from the matches I've seen him have from that period (quite a few due to some previous bulk purchases and a nice Owen in Japan comp) when more people see that stuff I think the consensus on him is going to solidify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I have to throw in my love for the Edge-Hardy cage match as well. I do agree that it's the best either guy has done, although there has been a lot of singles stuff both guys have done in recent years that I really dig. To me, it would've been the perfect blow-off to that feud. Of course, in hindsight, they had plans for Edge, so it's understandable why they went in the direction they. Almost feels like Flair-Steamboat in Chi-Town Rumble. Not quite the same level of quality, but similar in such it's the first real big match between the two (the SummerSlam match was pretty much a wash, and if memory serves, the streetfight on RAW came after, but before the ladder match), it's arguably the best match of the feud, and it's the high point for the babyface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I really liked Valentine/Santana from MSG on 11/26/84. jdw (I never know if I should capitalize jdw at the beginning of a sentence) was right when he called this a Flair-style match for both of them, with lots of good stuff to keep things going and keep things interesting. Excellent match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I watched the Austin/Foley match in full again. Man, there is so much awesome stuff in there. -The ring intros, completely over the top for Foley, the Stooges and Vince, non-existent for Austin. -Lawler's sycophantic approach to commentating. "The next Jim Thorpe," as Ross repeats with disgust in his voice. -An injured Brisco vallantly holding up the ring bell. -Vince and co. changing the rules -The Undertaker keeping Vince reasonably honest. This is the kind of logical step missing from most subsequent main events of its type. -Austin can't touch Vince, so it's Foley that levels Vince. -Taker leveling both the Stooges. And as I wrote before, a hot crowd and both wrestlers being spot on really made this great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 I tried to watch Akiyama/Rikio vs Morishima/Yone from 4/1/07 in NOAH and turned it off after about 10 minutes. Akiyama gets boot after boot from Yone, and the camera zooms into him not seeming all that bothered by it. The brawling in the crowd is also silly, and I'm really over forearm-forearm-forearm-forearm because guys don't know how to throw good strikes. Especially when the forearms don't even get sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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