The Thread Killer

Testify. I went back and re-watched the Vader vs. Takada matches from UWF-I and both ended up going up my list after. i forgot how much I loved those matches and how great both guys were in them.

I voted for Brody. He's not in my Top 50, but I voted for him. Just because I don't think he's as great as Dave Meltzer and Larry Matysik do, doesn't mean I don't like him or think he was great at some things. I thought about it long and hard, and the bottom line is that his lack of selling isn't a big deal for me as it is to a lot of other people. I certainly don't rate him as highly as I would have 10-15 years ago, but I am still a fan. I am guessing I will probably end up being the high vote for Sabu, and possibly Jeff Jarrett, especially since I am betting he got very few votes. I know he didn't get totally blanked. As with Brody, Jarrett hardly made the upper class of my list, but he did make it.

You hate them, Will? I can't understand what makes a man hate another man. Help me understand. Charles, that post was outstanding. One of the best wrestling related essays I have read online in a very, very long time. If not ever.

Mine is in. It is now 3:45 am my time, and I have to get up for work in less than two hours. But I knew I wouldn't have time to vote before the deadline (why is opening day for the Toronto Blue Jays the same day as Wrestlemania?) and I wasn't going to let this deadline pass without submitting a ballot. Looking forward to the results. Now I am going to have a nap.

I'm in the exact same boat as you. In Canada, we get to pay more for the Network, but on the plus side, we get LESS content! I ordered it for the Hall of Fame, and Wrestlemania, plus NXT. It pretty much pays for itself with that, plus the Podcasts and other specials, but having no On Demand content sucks.

It sure changed my mind about Hayes. I used to think he was a drunk, racist moron. Now I think he's delusional drunk racist moron, who dresses like Jack Nicholson in Batman. JBL jumped all over the place with his questions, but even worse was Michael Hays claiming that back in the 70's and 80's the Confederate Flag wasn't considered the racist symbol that it is today...that's a recent thing. He actually had the balls to act somewhat puzzled about people thinking he was racist, like JBL had to explain it to him, then he understood. Oh, and he only used "The N Word" because he used to listen to a lot of Richard Pryor albums, so he thought it was okay for people to call each other that. And when he did use it with Mark Henry, he was drunk. And by the way, he's not racist, because he has a black daughter. Well, not black, half-black. Well, she wasn't his daughter, she was his second wife's daughter, from a previous marriage. And she never lived with them when he was with his second wife. And he and his second wife are not together anymore. But he still has a good relationship with her daughter. So...not racist, see? Michael Hays came across as staggeringly disingenuous and self-deluded to me in this interview. He's one of those old timers who is such a carny I think he's actually conned himself into believing some of his own bullshit. We won't even get into the bizarre "If David Von Erich had lived, Fritz might have beat Vince McMahon to nation expansion" theory that he and JBL discussed, or his bizarre answers on the Gino Hernandez questions. "I don't believe he overdosed, but I'm not saying he was murdered, but I'm not saying anything else, no matter how many times you ask."

In my situation, it's more of a case of "what are other people seeing that I'm not?" A couple of years ago, that movie Birdman with Michael Keaton came out. It got very good reviews and a bunch of people I know saw it and raved about it. So I saw it, and didn't like it one little bit. The problem wasn't with the movie, it was that I had heard so much positive going in, my expectations were probably unreasonably high. New Day and Kevin Owens tend to get a lot of love in the so-called "IWC." When I watched RAW, I really couldn't see the appeal. Still can't, but at least now thanks to this thread, I know other people agree with me.

When I saw that the New Day were inducting The Freebirds, I almost choked on my Diet Coke. I wonder if Hayes will come out wearing the Confederate Flag cloak after they introduce him, and then tell them that he's better at being black than they are.

A couple of months ago, somebody started a thread in the Modern WWE folder entitled: "Dean Ambrose: Am I Missing Something?" the gist of which was that they didn't see the big deal about Ambrose, or why other people thought he was a big deal. Last night, due to severe boredom, I watch parts of RAW. Honestly, I couldn't sit through the whole thing, but I watched parts. The Dean Ambrose thread came to mind...but not because of Dean Ambrose, for two other reasons. Firstly - and I hate myself for writing this, since it makes me look like I am agreeing with two people I can't stand, and who can't stand each other, namely Jim Cornette and Vince Russo - but I do NOT get the deal with Kevin Owens. I'm a fat guy, so this isn't fat shaming, trust me. But he just doesn't LOOK like a wrestler. Actually scratch that, aside from the horrible beard and bad skin, he looks like a jobber from the early seventies. Seriously, what the hell? He wears women's leggings covered by goofy looking basketball shorts, and a sleeveless t-shirt. His ring gear is terrible. He has bad acne, and the beard of a homeless man. And as I said, not to be a fat shamer, but dude is pretty damn fat. He's got himself a beer belly there. Chris Hero gets released for his, Kevin gets called up. His promos are for SHIT. Can he wrestle? Absolutely, but nowhere near well enough to make up for his shortcomings. I didn't mind him in Ring of Honor. I loved his team with El Generico, and their feud with The Briscoes. I was there ringside in July 2008 when he fought Nigel McGuiness for the ROH World Title in Toronto. That was ROH. I am not totally unaware of his abilities, but I don't see why people think he's anything special or deserves any sort of special attention in the big time. Am I missing something? Which brings me to act #2. The New Day. For MONTHS I have been hearing about how great these guys are, and how the Dudleys had better not be coming back to beat them, because the Duds suck and are stuck in the 90's while The New Day are the only fresh act on the roster and blah blah blah blah blah. Seriously...WTF? They're annoying as HELL. They dance around, act like idiots, and Consequences Creed plays a damn trombone which is annoying as shit. They're an updated Edge and Christian. With dildo headbands. Big deal and whoop-de-freaking-do. What am I missing with THESE guys? Feel free to answer me, in all sincerity. Tell me what I'm missing, and if you have a "Am I Missing Something" act of your own, feel free to throw that in to this thread too.

If he's smart, I can't see Storm being too upset. He still made the right call. With James Storm I think the bottom line came down to money and working conditions. With TNA he is apparently making better money guaranteed, and has to work less dates, which means less chance of injuries and more time to heal his body from wear and tear. From everything I read, he made the right decision for himself and his family. As much as TNA is a joke, if Storm thinks he is going to get his paycheck every couple of weeks (which with TNA is no safe bet) then he probably made the right call. I am sure he is sad to see Roode and Young go, but it probably won't change his mind about his decision to sign with TNA. I know there are a lot of guys out there who grew up watching WWE, and their ultimate goal is to make it there (and nowhere else will do.) To me the problem is that the landscape there is so fickle. That's what would terrify me if I was a wrestler in my prime. It's not like a normal job, or a sport. If you're a baseball player, and a team signs you, and you can hit a ton, you're going to play and when contract time rolls around, you're going to make money. You control your own fate, as long as you can deliver. Storm is a top guy, no doubt. But if somebody (like say, Kevin Dunn or even worse, Vince) decide you don't have "it" then you're going to be the next Zack Ryder and spend the best years of your career on Superstars, it doesn't matter how good you are. People who have way less talent than you are going to rise above you or stay above you, and there is very little you can do to stop that. One of the few glaring exceptions of somebody who rose above that would be Punk or Danielson, but I'd say they would be the exceptions to the rule, in my opinion. I would guess that a lot of the guys in NXT (or especially the guys who are thinking about going to NXT) see how NXT guys are treated once they get "called up." It's a huge risk, because if you're a decent worker like Storm, you take a pay cut to go to NXT, you get saddled with a shitty gimmick when and if you go to WWE, and end up getting mis-used or released, that ends up hurting your chance to make a decent living in the long run. In some cases you can lose your identity and marketability after you leave. I saw an interview with New Jack of all people. We all know he is notoriously full of shit, and quite possibly insane. However, he said when the WWE bought the ECW library and then ended up restarting the brand, a lot of guys signed deals with the WWE where they got as little as $10,000 for the rights to their names. Then they were used briefly in the new ECW (if at all) and then released. But then they can't legally use their names anymore. I remember when Balls Mahoney had a brief run in TNA, he had to call himself "Kahoneys." Seriously. New Jack said he wouldn't sign the deal, because he knew he'd never make it in WWE, and in his words "ain't nobody going to pay 25 cents to come and see Jerome Young." Not to compare James Storm to New Jack, but there are some parallels when discussing the risks somebody who is already established takes when going to NXT or TNA. What if Storm goes to NXT, does a few months, and then makes it to WWE. They don't use him right, he gets released...what does he do then? Go back to the indies as James Cox? He loses money on that deal, big time. I can't stomach TNA, but I don't want to see them go out of business because of all the guys it would put out of work who will never make it in WWE. (Except for Dixie Carter and Bob Ryder. I would enjoy seeing them out of work and embarrassed by failure.) As much as I'd love to see Storm in WWE and do well, he probably can sleep at night knowing he made the right call for his family.

I don't think he's a pedophile either, at all. I think you and I are probably in agreement about this issue. I guess what irritates me about this story is the fact that trying to be glib while under oath is incredibly arrogant and quite frankly, mind-bogglingly stupid. When you testify in any sort of court proceeding, you know (and your legal counsel should remind you) that every single thing you say (and how you say it) is going to be subject to intense scrutiny and interpretation. Daulerio was either too stupid to know how his comment was going to backfire in his face, or too arrogant to care. I do understand that it is opposing counsel's job to try and trip you up and provoke exactly such a reaction, which makes him doing it all the worse. Hogan's lawyers must have been overjoyed when he reacted like that. He had to know that he should be giving short, precise answers and keeping his opinions to a minimum. It was Daulerio's arrogance and Gawker Media's arrogance that got them in this mess, so as I said I am having a hard time feeling sorry for them, even though it looks like the judge was biased against them from the get go. Once again, if what I have read is true, Gawker was basically thumbing their nose at the judge from the moment lawyers got involved in this situation, and it came back to bite them in the ass in a huge way. It sounds like the general consensus is that Gawker will be able to get this decision reversed or reduced on appeal, but even getting to that point will cost them a small fortune. I would hope that Denton is placing the blame for most of this on Daulerio's shoulders, but I don't know if that has been covered anywhere or if anybody knows the real reaction is behind the scenes at Gawker?

Okay, you lost me right there. Are you saying Hulk Hogan or somebody representing Hulk Hogan would misrepresent the truth? I just find that hard to believe, and totally out of character for the man.

He probably should have chosen his words on the stand a lot more carefully, then. According to the AP, this guy said the only situation where a sex tape would not be newsworthy is if it included a child under the age of four...and that he doesn't think it's a bad thing to publish a sex tape without the participant's consent. If Gawker media goes down the tubes because of this lawsuit, it's because of that moron's brilliant management skills more than anything. I have a hard time mustering up any sympathy for anybody involved in either side of this situation...Hogan, Bubba, Denton, Daulerio, the whole thing was like one big sleazebag parade.

Thanks for the link. When it comes to giving interviews and doing publicity, in my opinion Dynamite is an interesting case. If you've read Pure Dynamite it seems obvious to me the book was basically written by his co-author from a series of transcribed interviews, based on the style of the writing. I would speculate Alison Coleman got him to warm up, and actually elaborate on answers when he talked about his career, and then she crafted it into a fairly readable autobiography (which ignores some of the sensitive issues like the alleged domestic abuse and his reputation as a locker room bully. These issues kind of get touched on, but clearly from his perspective, as you can imagine.) Sad to hear about the rumored stroke, but I think the Highspots documentary of a few years ago went quite a long way to de-mystify the whole "Billington is an eccentric recluse" theory. I do believe that he is more than happy to give interviews - especially when he gets paid for them - but the fact of the matter is that he is a rather introverted person and isn't much of a talker. He never was a talker, he has always said he preferred to let his work speak for itself. When it comes to getting details out of a guy like him, any half decent journalist will tell you that there is an art to putting somebody at ease when you interview them, meet with them a few times, develop some kind of professional relationship, establish a rapport so the subject (rightly or wrongly) doesn't think you're going to do a total hatchet job on them. To me the perfect example of this was when Mick Wall wrote the ultimate behind-the-scenes book about Led Zeppelin by doing just that with Jimmy Page. ("When Giants Walked The Earth.") He ended up getting more details about the inner workings of Zeppelin than I think any reporter ever has out of Jimmy Page. (And once the book came out, Page stopped talking to him and denied a bunch of the stories, but such is the nature of celebrity interviews, I guess.) Unfortunately, it seems like 99% of the guys who do wrestling shoot interviews walk in, plunk down a couple of grand on the table, and then ask questions from their print-out sheet. "What are your memories of the Royal Rumble? Do you have any funny Iron Sheik stories?" You get the odd Jim Cornette, Vince Russo, or Kevin Nash who are love with the sound of their own voices and will talk anyhow, or you get The Honkytonk Man and his ilk who want to use the interview as a forum to bash people with whom they have an axe to grind - but if these wrestling interviewers knew how to interview, we'd probably have a lot more good interviews with people like Tom Billington who are hard to get answers out of. I found it humorous when Highspots marketed the documentary as being something they decided to do after they filmed a shoot interview with him and found SO much material that they HAD to make a full on documentary. It was the story they HAD to tell. It's pretty damn obvious watching that movie that he was uncomfortable giving the interview so he ended up giving one or two word answers to practically every question. On top of that, he was speaking so quietly and the sound was so bad, they had to subtitle him (so you could SEE him say "yes" and "no.") They did luck out getting some half decent interview subjects for the documentary, most notably Bret Hart and Billington's daughter who talked about their estrangement. But to me, it's clear they made the documentary because if they hadn't, the "shoot" would have been about 45 minutes of Tom Billington mumbling one or two word responses to lame questions. The Dynamite Kid is an interesting character. You can't deny he had a huge influence on a bunch of wrestlers that came after him, yet by many accounts he was a pretty horrible person to be around in the locker room (and at home if you believe reports.) He gets the old "great worker/bad person" label a fair bit when people ask about him. It's always interesting to hear his version of events, if you can actually get it.

I have seen hours and hours of his matches, and I came into this thread to share memories and condolences. It annoys me to see the thread instead cluttered up with unnecessary stupidity. I don't like to derail this thread, but since you admittedly know NOTHING about Hayabusa, why not limit your response to either a simple "RIP" or "I haven't seen much if any of his work, so I am not qualified to offer an opinion" or even better...SAY NOTHING. I own the (sigh) RF Video 4 Volume Best of Compilation, (which if you put aside the source is actually an excellent chronicle of his career.) I also own a ton of FMW on top of that. I have seen most of the highspots his career which was tragically cut short. He may not have been everybody's cup of tea but the talent was undeniably there. In a sport where so many blend in to the crowd, he managed to be somewhat unique and stood out in the freak show that was FMW. His career ending too soon was tragic, his passing is even more so obviously. RIP.

Good point...Pain and Passion is excellent too.

Click the link in my signature. They don't get much more "under the radar" than Drawing Heat, in both the book itself, and it's main subject, The Canadian Wildman. Drawing Heat was the first book I'd ever heard that candidly discussed the behind the scenes goings on in Pro Wrestling, and it really is a tragic story. The Wildman was never a household name (although he became infamous for all the wrong reasons when the bear killed his girlfriend) but he really was an underground legend in eastern Canada, as his shows were ECW about 10 years before there was an ECW. This book has info on plenty of other famous names too, especially The Original Sheik. It isn't mentioned in the book, but The Wildman actually helped train Sabu and gave him his start as "Terry S.R." and of course Adrian Adonis was on a Wildman tour when he was killed in the same accident which killed The Wildman. It is extremely well written too, as the author is a Professor at the University of Western Ontario so I'd say it is one of the better written books on wrestling I've read from a technical standpoint, if nothing else. It can be almost philosophical and poetic in parts, written from the standpoint of a non-fan wanting to understand the world of Pro Wrestling, and the journey that takes him on. Seriously...read this book.

As much as I can't stand Kevin Nash, he was actually quite funny in Adam Sandler's version of The Longest Yard. He stole every scene he was in...not that that was all that hard, but still. I remember being surprised at how natural he was as a comedic actor, which in retrospect I suppose I shouldn't have been.

I read somewhere that Rick Rude did not like Bobby Heenan and was pissed off that the WWF gave him a manager at all, especially Heenan. Which is odd to me, because having a manager preening all over him and telling him how great he was, was a big part of Rude's gimmick to me. He was fine to talk for himself, but having a sycophantic manager telling Rude (and everybody else) how great he was - that made the act. I think Rude's act wouldn't have been half as good without a manager. Although I think he is jerk of the highest magnitude, Superstar Billy Graham talked in his book about how at first he chaffed at having The Grand Wizard as a manager, until he learned that it wasn't about his promo skills, it was all about getting outside interference and a lightning rod for the fans to hate as well, for kissing his butt all the time. I really miss the Heel Manager/Heel Stable aspect of old school wrestling.

This angle did it for me. I had been a WWF/WWE fan since the early 80's, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was a long time coming, and there were plenty of things that led up to that point, but prior to that I had always maintained an interest in the WWE product, watched Raw and Smackdown, and pretty much all the PPV's. I can honestly say that since the Triple H/Booker T angle, WWE hasn't gotten nickel one from me that I can recall, and if they ever have, it has never been anywhere NEAR the money I used to spend on them. I paid for every PPV, tons of home video releases, live event tickets and merchandise for years and years, and all of that stopped with this angle. I'm not one of those thin skinned easily offended types, nor am I a knee jerk liberal who takes offense or sees a double meaning in every nickname or catch phrase. It wasn't JUST the blatant racism that offended me about this angle, although that was a large part of it. It was the fact that the WWE later actually tried to claim this story was good storytelling, and stating in an article on their website written by some jackass named Brian Solomon (which later vanished) that it was good vs. evil during which good would triumph. Anybody who knows how the eventual Triple H/Booker T match went, knows how "good" won out in this story. Then they tried to claim the story wasn't actually about race for a while, that was classic. The whole ordeal was just so wrong headed (as opposed to nappy headed, as Triple H called Booker T) that I just gave up. I encourage anybody who forgot or didn't see that angle to click the link I provided. I know it's from Wrestlecrap, but they actually did a good job of documenting how bad that angle was - with sound bytes to prove the case, no less.

I've never understood the Japanese attitude towards cancer, but the fear of discrimination aspect really makes sense. That is rampant in North America as well, believe me. People are quick to applaud you for "beating cancer" and equally as quick to reject you if they think it might come back and cost their company medical plan or affect their rates. I agree with Zenjo. Too much. This disease has gutted my life, killing my mother, (and her mother and both sisters) and my poor dad is fighting it as we speak, while I have had my own fight with it. It really is a nightmare. Akira Hokuto has my fondest wishes. It sounds like she is fighting this bravely and that kind of courage is important when dealing with this awful disease. I really do wish the best for her, I hope that surgery was an unqualified success.

From everything I have read/seen, it appears Snuka is absolutely guilty and deserves to go to jail. If I was the family, I would be just as outraged and consider legal action against those who sat around with their collective thumbs up their butts for years and years, while Snuka was allowed to roam free, while the exact same evidence they are planning on trying to use to convict him was pretty much just sitting there. That is one of the real crimes here, the years Snuka got to live that his victim did not, when it could have been dealt with. I do agree with the sentiment that going after him now seems strange and almost pointless. There won't be much justice served here, even if he is convicted. He's in his twilight years but on top of that between his cancer and dementia, it's not like there is much the penal systen can do to him now, that life isn't already doing. They might be able to stop him from spending the last years of his life surrounded by his family - to a degree - but if his dementia advances he may not even be aware of that. Plus the system would have to take his illnesses into account. If convicted he might not even end up seeing the inside of a jail cell, house arrest or a hospital ward might be more likely. I also can't see my way clear to get too angry at his grandkids and family for the fundraising. Like a lot of people, I grew up worshiping my grandparents (my grandmother is still kicking at 100!) and if somebody accused them of something I would probably not want to believe it and leap to their defense, regardless of the evidence stacked against them. If my grandfather said something, to me it was the truth when I was a kid - so I can't come down too hard on grandkids for believing in their grandparents. No moral outrage, just sad. The whole situation is so sad. Justice easily could have been served decades ago if not for apathy. Doing something about this now just underscores that fact to me, and almost makes it worse for the victim's family.

I suppose I can understand people liking the music...to a degree. But all the other crap that came with it...the cocaine, the outfits, the hair, the preening and posing, the whole attitude...bleh. Anything that was even partially responsible for me having to wear bell bottom pants cannot be forgiven. Like I said, I was there, I lived it, and Disco Sucked. As an aside, I always thought Disco Inferno could have been a bigger act had he ended up in the WWF rather than WCW. I always though McMahon could have turned his look and gimmick into at least an I/C level star.

That's one of the things I have always liked about The Rock.

I find The Addiction's ring gear confusing. Daniels wears a Nazi general's uniform, which I'm not entirely comfortable with. Kazarian dresses like a biker with a bandana and denim jacket, and they are accompanied by Sabin who always looks like he just got out of bed after sleeping in his clothes. And their tights don't match. Tag Teams should have matching tights. Back in my day, teams wore matching tights, some of them with black and yellow stripes, with matching masks. Many had their names clearly marked on their gear, making it easy to identify who they were, and what team they were affiliated with. It was much less confusing.