The Thread Killer

Are you serious? I swear to Jeebus, if she is dumb enough to do that, she deserves to lose her entire family fortune. How anybody could be stupid enough to even think about that, or say it...never mind actually considering doing it? Mind boggling.

Wasn't one of the reasons that Swagger got de-pushed is because he got busted for a DWI? I'm not disagreeing with you though - WWE booking baffles me, it makes no sense whatsoever when it comes to building and maintaining new stars.

So who is in charge of creative as of the re-launch? John Gaburick?

I'm all for it. I know J.R. hate is fashionable around these parts (what with him being a vile human being who uses cringe inducing hate speech and everything) but I like him, and he's one of the reasons I am ordering the show. I was just keeping my fingers crossed for him to get a color guy who will know the NJPW product and actually add some color, and I think Striker is that guy. He's a fan, and I am confident that what he doesn't know, he'll research before the show. I am really looking forward to this.

So El Patron is coming into ROH for two shows - he'll be facing Christopher Daniels and ACH. I have no opinion on this, since the last time I saw Dos Caras Jr. do anything inside a ring, it was when he was legally murdered by Cro-Cop at PRIDE Bushido in 2003. The only memory I have of that event and his participation was that he was wearing a jockstrap over his face, and he got KTFO about 45 seconds into the first round - proving that just because you can do something it doesn't mean you should. (Hmmm. Perhaps CM Punk should pay attention to that.) Regardless, I'm led to believe he had some success in WWE, so maybe this is a good signing for ROH. If they don't screw it up. Which they probably will.

double double post post

Maybe I'm getting too picky in my old age, maybe I remember when ROH used to be a lot better when it was now, maybe I was just in a bad mood, I don't know. But I thought that show was really bad. TTK Bitches and Moans about ROH Final Battle 2014 In the opener, Hanson defeated Jimmy Jacobs, Mark Briscoe, and Caprice Coleman Jimmy Jacobs looked really unmotivated in this match, like he didn't even want to be there. I found Caprice Coleman to be really bland and uninspiring as well. Briscoe worked hard, but he always does. Hanson has some okay looking offense but his selling is...yeesh. I was hoping for an exciting, hot opener and got a whole bunch of meh. In my opinion, it killed the crowd. Roderick Strong defeated Adam Page This was okay. Because I don't get ROH TV here in Toronto, I was glad they showed a video package to explain the back-story, because at the last PPV, Strong was still part of The Decade and I had no idea who Page was. Page is fairly good, and Strong was solid. It was a fair match. And WTF was up with that whole deal after the match with Corino and Whitmer? Whitmer rips Corino's headset off and starts to talk, Corino goes apeshit and charges at him, and security breaks it up while the cameras cut to the crowd. That was either a really weird shoot or a pointless work, since Corino is retired. And he showed more fire and personality than anybody else on the show up to that point, just because somebody ripped his headset off. Michael Elgin defeated Tommaso Ciampa I thought the premise behind this match was weird. Ciampa doesn't like Elgin because Elgin is getting a reputation as the loose cannon of ROH, and that is supposed to be Ciampa's deal? Plus, Ciampa is supposedly a face now, but he is on his last warning for attacking officials. The first problem with this match (and this show) was the commentary. It was bad. Really, really bad. Dreadful. I hadn't heard Kevin Kelly in the booth since 97 and he sure hasn't gotten any better. Nigel McGuiness used to be a fairly good promo, I thought but in the authority role as the color guy he was terrible, high pitched, hysterical and annoying. Kelly is just terrible at calling a match and then he picks a hype point and beats it into the ground - in this case it was the idea that Ciampa might be suspended or fired if he touched an official. Which of course he accidentally did, causing a hysterical McGuiness to rip his headset off and flee into the crowd. The last ROH show I saw, it seemed like Ciampa was getting a push - but I guess that is over. I'll be the first one to admit that I went into this match expecting to hate it because I have no use for Michael Elgin. He always struck me as a wannabe Rhino with a mullet. Well, at least the mullet is gone now. My issue with Elgin is the same issue I had with another fellow Torontonian, Edge. That issue is that he is totally unconvincing and comes across as comical and forced when he is going for "intense." His eyes bug out, he makes strange faces, talks in an odd voice...these things are all intended to demonstrate to us how intense and scary he is, when instead they give the impression that he is trying out for the second grade play, or is perhaps experiencing trouble having regular bowel movements. My attitude is that if it's clear you can't act - don't try. Silence and a deadly stare go a lot farther than bugged out eyes and grunting. Anyhow, supposedly Elgin is doing a watered down Brian Pillman act in ROH, so he fought Ciampa. These guys just couldn't get on the same page and get any sort of momentum going, the match seemed poorly laid out and awkward, and ended in a bad ref bump. Which led to a semi-hysterical Kevin Kelly spending the rest of the night behind the mic wringing his hands and speculating about the fate of poor Thomaso Ciampa. Ugh. The Young Bucks and ACH defeated The Addiction and Cedric Alexander Well, this match woke the crowd up, I'll give it that. I'm not a big fan of The Young Bucks - they strike me as wannabe Hardys, but this match had plenty of action and even though it was sort of spotfu, it didn't offend my old school sensibilities too badly. My one question...The Addiction are great and everything, but wouldn't Christopher Daniels be better used back in his Fallen Angel gimmick higher up the card in a singles match? Lord knows the man has an ROH track record of proven success, and this roster is SCARY thin on talent. Moose defeated RD Evans I defy anybody to watch this abortion and tell me with a straight face that it wasn't booked in the pits of hell by Lucifer himself. RD Evans tried three times to jump onto the top rope and springboard off. He finally gave up and stopped trying when you could literally hear the entire crowd laughing at him because he kept falling. And Moose's idea of selling is to half stumble a step backward and comically wave his arms in circles. I thought his offence was okay but his selling was terrible. No. Just...no. sek is correct in saying that this was "angle advancement" in having Moose, Hathaway and Veda Scott all break away from Evans, but the execution was just so BAD. The booking was terrible...the turn could be seen a million miles away by everybody except two people, RD Evans and Kevin Kelly. And what possible payoff can there ever be? RD Evans looks like the "before" picture in the old Charles Atlas comic book ads, he showed tonight that he can't perform in the spotlight (if at all) and if he is carryable, it sure as shit isn't going to be Moose who does it. My beef is this - I have seen countless matches that were scores better than this at Indy shows in front of a handful of people. I have seen very few matches worse than this, from a technical standpoint. This was a fairly prominently placed match on a Live PPV - only the second ever - for a company that is supposedly the #3 wrestling organization in North America. You have to believe that somebody ordered this show in order to see what ROH was all about and decide if they were worth following. If that was me, and I saw this? I'd not only never order an ROH show again, I'd consider never watching wrestling again. As a paying customer I deserved better than this dreck, and if ROH seriously thinks they can usurp TNA as the #2 promotion, they're going to have to try a HELL of a lot harder than this. And I guess that was my issue. With matches like this, it seems like they weren't even trying. Jay Lethal defeated Matt Sydal Lethal is having a fun little run with the ROH TV title. I didn't mind his rivalry with ACH but obviously I was expecting a ton more from this. They showed a video package leading into this, which explained that Sydal had been offered a spot in "The House of Truth" but turned it down, hence this match. I never saw one Evan Bourne match in WWE, but I remember Sydal in ROH from years past. I have always found Lethal to be a solid, dependable if unremarkable performer inside the ring, so I figured - established high flyer vs. solid heel, should be good, right? Not so much. Much like the Ciampa/Elgin match, these guys just didn't seem to click. The pieces were there, but the chemistry was off and the whole thing came across as stilted and unsatisfying. There wasn't anything technically horrible about this match, but it was entirely forgettable when I thought it had the potential to be more. reDRagon defeated Time Splitters The crowd perked up for this one too. Definitely the match of the night. A bit less old school southern tag style and bit more spotastic than my tastes, but I am big fan of both teams and they worked hard and did a good job. I can't complain about the match itself. Here's where I can (and will) complain... Kevin Kelly casually mentions that this is the rubber match between these two teams, they hold one win a piece against each other. But for whatever reason, there are no video packages documenting this, no pre-match packages of any kind to hype it at all. These guys are 1-1 against each other, the titles are on the line, and it's almost an afterthought. Jay Briscoe defeated Adam Cole Speaking of video packages? So I'm led to believe that this match is a "Fight Without Honor" with no rules, due to Adam Cole attacking Jay Briscoe's dad. I'm told this, it is the motivation behind the Main Event of the PPV, but they didn't actually, you know, bother to actually SHOW US THE ATTACK or anything. It's not like it's the story behind the Main Event that sets up the story! Why would the people who don't get the TV show need to see the motivating factor behind the match that is Main Eventing the show they're being asked to buy? That's just a waste of time! I talked about the match earlier, so I won't belabor the point. I was surprised to see Briscoe go over, since I was under the impression that he was just a stop-gap solution as champion after that whole mess with Elgin's passport. I assumed Cole is their new #1 guy, but hey - a surprise result is always welcome. Once again, I'm so old school they tore the school down - so I wouldn't Main Event a PPV with a garbage match, I'd rather see a solid wrestling match. But it was for the World Championship, and it was blowing off an angle, so there you go. Final Thoughts... I need to see the shoot interview Cornette gave when he left ROH. I don't really like Cornette, he strikes me as an out of touch, stuck in the past, raving nutbar. But after seeing this show, I am starting to wonder if some of his complaints about ROH are valid. Because really? This show just wasn't good in my opinion. ROH used to be a great company and put out a great product. In fact, I found it hard to keep up with how much good stuff they were putting out. Somewhere over the past couple of years, something got lost. Their talent is really weak. I only see 4-5 Main Event potential guys on this roster. And the booking is just flat, uninspired, unimaginative shit. They have good TV coverage and live PPV, and they are literally wasting it. Keep in mind, maybe it's me. I’ve been a wrestling fan for 30 years. I’ve said in the past, maybe I’m outgrowing this stuff, finally. After attending Global Wars in May and finding myself surrounded by truly unpleasant people, I swore off ever attending live wrestling again. After this show, it is highly unlikely I’ll ever pay for a ROH show again. Maybe my standards are too high, I’m not sure. But I am pissed that I paid good money and got this in return. I know damn well I could have waited a few hours and gotten the show for free, but I have always financially supported ROH because they have put out a good product which to me, was a viable alternative to the WWE. Anybody can have one bad show, but this show was crappy on so many levels, I don’t know what to think.

The main event was basically a garbage match. Now I don't mind a good senseless brawl, but I don't think it should have been in the Main Event of their second ever Live PPV. Lower on the card, maybe. Secondly, it was basically a New Jack style match, staples, thumb tacks, etc. Not horrible for what it was, but I expected better. The tag title match was fair to good in parts, but it was a spotfest with no psychology to speak of. And all four guys in the ring at the same time for the second half of the match - to hell with the standard tag team format, face or even heel in peril, tagging in and out, etc. Just a whole lot of kicking out of finishing moves and highspots.

I made the mistake of ordering Final Battle 2013 on PPV last night. That show was terrible - practically unwatchable. During the Moose vs. RD Evans match, I found myself waxing nostalgic about the greatness of the Heroes of Wrestling PPV back in 1999.

Okay, THAT was damn funny.

Back when I used to write for 411, I was some pissed off at the lead up to the Booker T/Triple H match at Wrestlemania. http://411mania.com/wrestling/the-skeptic-tank-03-16-03-by-any-other-name/ Holy crap, that was 11 years ago. Anyhow, I have never paid for any WWE programming of any kind since then.

Have you read "Wrestling at the Chase?" It's actually quite interesting - which in itself as a feat, since I find Larry Matysik's writing style to be maddening. The way Muchnick is painted in that book, he was pretty fair with the wrestlers regarding pay and what was there was there when it came to his word. Kind of reminds me of how people speak of Baba - but no Motoko for Sam. Flipping through the book again, I actually get the impression that Vince took Muchnick's retirement in January 1982 as a kind of greenlight to start his expansion. I wonder if Muchnick had stayed around - do you think things would have ended up any different for the NWA?

I find it hard to believe that Will mentions all these precious friendships and memories he has from PWO and fails to mention the greatest gift of all he ever received, a personally autographed picture of Ricky Morton. Everything after that is just gravy.

OT and not trying to be nit picky, but McMahon didn't put Sam Muchnick out of business. He probably would have, but Muchnick quit after his wife passed away and he found it hard to motivate himself to go to work. He was also reportedly sick of being President of the NWA and having to referee squabbles between promoters. He was also unhappy with how the NWA Championship was being booked as he apparently saw it as devaluing the title. It's also very possible that Muchnick saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to go to war with McMahon, but technically, he got out before McMahon could push him out. And I personally think McMahon would have had a hard time getting Muchnick out, because the man was no dummy and he seemed to inspire a lot of loyalty from those who worked for him.

I don't know if he is or not. I do know that the four names he centered out for giving him a hard time in developmental were Snow, Malenko, Nova and Williams. And if I remember the interview correctly, he told Heyman that somebody who worked for WWE used the aforementioned slur. They may have been, and maybe they still are but in the interview clip I saw, Cabana did not seem like a big Nova fan. Remember, Nova got fired for screwing something up royally in developmental. Perhaps this was it. I don't know. You might have seen the same interview I saw, sek. I remember him saying that Williams made him read it, and then quizzed them on it! Anyhow... I have met the following wrestlers: Jake Roberts Johnny Valentine The Iron Sheik The blond Nasty Boy (I could never remember which one was Knobbs and which one was Saggs) Greg Valentine Jim Duggan Kerry Von Erich The Ultimate Warrior Ricky Steamboat Ted Dibiase with Virgil Bret Hart The Undertaker This was in my capacity as a Social Worker, WWF used to run shows every December 26 at Maple Leaf Gardens and Jack Tunney (in his role as Toronto promoter NOT "WWF President") used to give us a great deal on tickets and let the kids backstage to meet the wrestlers. This was the big Christmas treat for the kids, we'd go downtown to eat, go to the show and the kids would get to meet the wrestlers. We would also go to the odd house show at MLG and get backstage if we could. Jack Tunney was a nice man for that, he didn't have to do it, and wanted to extra thanks or credit. For the most part, the wrestlers stayed in character, but... Even though he was supposed to be all dark and mysterious, Jake Roberts was CRAZY nice to those kids. Johnny V ignored the kids totally and spent all his time hitting on my female coworkers who were thoroughly repulsed by him. The Iron Sheik was in and out, nice enough but CLEARLY high as a kite. This caused no end of hilarity for the kids, since they were all well able to spot the signs of somebody fucked up on drugs, from dealing with dear old Mom and Dad. The blond Nasty Boy spent all his time trying to get him out of the room as quick as possible. Greg Valentine was nice but the poor guy was incredibly tired, he told us he literally couldn't remember what city he was in. He had to fly somewhere else for another show the same day. Jim Duggan was just as nice as Jake Roberts, he actually talked to the kids at length, like asked them questions about themselves. Kerry Von Erich and The Ultimate Warrior just waved and said hello, but they were nice enough I suppose. Ted Dibiase and Virgil stayed in character, but Ted cut a promo for the kids and did his famous laugh and they LOVED it. I had to hear that laugh imitated for weeks after. Ricky Steamboat was super nice too. He was one of the only ones who was nice to the kids but also thanked the workers who brought them, which was really cool. The Undertaker stayed in character, but did something so incredibly nice for one of my kids, I'll never forget it as long as I live. It is a bit of a story, so I'll have to type it later. Bret was VERY nice to the kids and pretty damn rude to us. I also met Sabu once. He was rude, profane and gave me an autograph. It was funny. I met Balls Mahoney and Axl Rotten after an ECW show in Buffalo. They were cool, thanked me for supporting ECW, especially when they found out I had driven down from Toronto for the show. Oh, you know who was crazy nice? Carey Silken. Both ROH shows I went to, he worked the door, shaking fans hands on the way out and thanking them for supporting the product.

I know that Cabana is not a big Al Snow fan, based on how Snow reportedly treated him in OVW - Snow allegedly told Cabana that he couldn't get over as a comedy wrestler (which coming from Snow is just plain weird) and also allegedly said and did a lot of other unpleasant things to Cabana. Cabana also told Paul Heyman that somebody in WWE developmental called him "Kike Cabana" which caused Heyman to go on a rant about anti-Semitism in wrestling in general. The rumor I heard was that it was Dean Malenko or Nova that actually uttered the slur - but maybe Snow gets the heat for it, I dunno. Overall, to hear Cabana tell it, Snow, Malenko, Nova and Steve Williams all went out of their way to make Cabana's time in developmental shitty. From what I understand, it was a case of "I don't care if you were over in the indies, yer in the big leagues now, boy" by a bitter bunch of guys who never made it all that big with WWE themselves. (Coincidentally, Nova invented hazing rookies.) As far as I know, none of this can be proven. Also, in my own humble opinion Colt Cabana does kinda suck and comes off bitter about not making it big when his buddies did... But either way that is no excuse for anti-Semitism obviously. On the flip side, one of my best friends has had the occassion to interact with Al Snow on several occassions and says he's really nice and very funny. So who knows?

I was there. It was...not so good. The booking was odd (not one, but two triple threat tag matches? Plus the Fatal 4 Way for the TV title didn't get anywhere near enough time) and Adam Cole is just awful. Seriously bad. I was getting nostalgic for Xavier. Worst of all were the terribly obnoxious ROH fans. The ones behind me and next to me were so annoying, I may never go to a live wrestling show again. There is nothing worse than a fan who thinks he is clever and witty, but really isn't. Even if the show had been good...which it wasn't...the fans would have ruined it for me. Being surrounded by those people has made me seriously question if I have outgrown being a wrestling fan after 31 years. ROH has really gone down since the last time I saw them live, at Northern Navigation in 2008.They won't be getting my business again any time soon.

I give you Goldberg & Mutoh vs. Kronik. So bad for so many reasons. It was the Main Event, it was just horrible. It was the match that didn't end, it just went on and on my friend. Some people starting watching it not knowing what it was, then they wanted to gouge their eyes out just because, it was the match that didn't end, it just went on and on my friend... A little bit of me died when I saw it, never to return.

I disagree. Two of the top contenders (Machida and Rua) were offered that fight, and turned it down. If there was a ranked contender who wanted the fight, and Sonnen got it over them, that would be one thing. (Like when Hendricks clearly deserved the shot at GSP but GSP wanted and got Diaz instead.) Dana White made it clear that Sonnen was the only one ready and willing to take that fight at that time. Everybody else had unreasonable demands which would have resulted in the fight being delayed by as many as 6-9 months.

THANK YOU! I was complaining about just those issues to somebody else a while back. To me, Edge's pathetic hammy facial expressions and terrible promos made me taking him seriously impossible, but I had never heard anybody else say the same thing. I was starting to think it was just me. I know I should have cheered for the hometown boy who made it big, but I could never see the big deal with Edge. I liked his stuff with Foley, but that was more down to Foley than Edge. Other than that? Pffft.

Damn you. I was not expecting to read that, and just did a massive Diet Coke spit-take across my living room.

I'm sorry but I seriously question the intelligence of somebody who thinks that fight was fixed. You can question why the hell Silva was so stupid, but it's practically impossible to make a legitimate argument about that fight being fixed. Only people who have very little exposure to seeing real, legit fights would think it was fixed, IMO.

Mike Sharpe has been one of the worst wrestlers when viewing the 80s. Just unbearable. Okay, listen...that is Canada's Greatest Athlete you're talking about. Show some respect. The man had a serious forearm injury, you can't expect all his matches to have been 5 star classics.

I have to disagree there. He came across as pretty natural and relaxed on the mic, in my opinion.