The Thread Killer

WTAF is wrong with these people? It’s 20 minutes in, and nothing of significance has happened yet. Seth Rollins makes his entrance, then they go to commercial. Then they show a recap of Backlash. Then they do a backstage interview with Damien Priest, while Rollins is still standing in the ring with his thumb up his butt. Who the hell is laying this show out? Say what you want about AEW, but at least it’s not boring like this. They start with a match right off the bat most times.

You are not wrong there. I used to post at the Sherdog forums and the musclebros are out in full force in places like that. It’s plenty scary.

Not to mention saying “I still got it” implies that you actually had it in the first place.

Quite honestly, who the fuck cares? He’s under contract to AEW, not to mention that he’d never go back to work there in a million years. Plus I really don’t think Tony Khan gives a shit if a guy who isn’t even active on his roster right now goes to visit his friends when they’re in his hometown. TK doesn’t strike me as being that insecure or paranoid. (Unlike Vince, if positions were reversed.) Hell, at this point Punk probably has more friends in the WWE locker room than he does in AEW.

I used to really like that song. They’ve kind of ruined it for me.

Exactly. I am super pumped about this. Judging by the fan reaction to the tweet announcing these tapings, I am not alone either. The general feeling seems to be the last few weeks of ROH on Honor Club have been okay…but the first month was better.

ROH is heading back to Universal Studios to tape another month of TV. That will be SO much better if Tony Khan does it the way he did the first set of ROH on Honor Club tapings. This forces him to plan ahead and book everything out in advance, the show will look much more aesthetically unique, ROH exclusive and not just like AEW Dark, and when it comes to talent hopefully he will do what he did last time. Namely, bring in a bunch of talent for both nights of tapings, a healthy mix of ROH Legacy talent, young, less experienced AEW talent and new names or guys from NJPW Strong. These last few weeks that he has been taping ROH before Dynamite felt like he is just randomly grabbing guys who happened to be standing around backstage.

Here is the lineup for ROH on Honor Club tonight. It’s a fair bit better than the last few weeks, but that’s really not saying much. ROH World Television Championship: Samoa Joe (c) vs. Colt Cabana I am sure this will be a competitive match but it really shouldn’t be. Cabana is pretty much useless as far as I’m concerned. Proving Ground Match: Athena vs. Heather Reckless Weekly ROH TV wouldn’t be ROH TV without Athena beating the crap out of some poor girl I’ve never heard of. I can’t see this being any different. I am totally digging Athena’s new gimmick and her reign of terror so far, but the problem is that they have nobody to put in front of her as a credible challenger. If you think the AEW Women’s Division is shite, ROH is even worse. Where the hell is Serena Deeb? El Hijo Del Vikingo vs. Gringo Loco I don’t know who Gringo Loco is, but based on his name it’s probably going to be a whole bunch of flippy goodness for those who enjoy that kind of thing. Lance Archer vs. JAH-C This is going to be legalized murder. It’s going to be a total squash. Brian Cage vs. Joey Jett See above. For reasons known only to him, Tony Khan seems determined to make Brian Cage a thing, by just pushing him relentlessly. See Garcia, Daniel and Yuta, Wheeler for examples. Konosuke Takeshita vs. Lee Moriarty Now this is more like it. These are the kind of matches I want to see in the new ROH. I know Takeshita is going to win, and so he should…but it should be a great match and give both guys a chance to shine. Dark Order (John Silver & Alex Reynolds) vs. Lee Johnson & Cole Karter I would be a bit more interested in this match if it was Uno & Grayson not Silver and Reynolds (but not much.) I like Johnson and Karter both. This is another example of the kind of matches ROH should be featuring in my opinion. I assume something will be happening around this match to advance the developing Dark Order/Righteous angle. Penta El Zero Miedo vs. Nick Comoroto Comoroto is another AEW guy who has shown a lot of potential but has become lost in the Dark/Elevation vortex. Penta will win, but I am curious how Comoroto will acquit himself. I am further curious if something will transpire around this match to give us a clue to who the next challengers might be for the ROH Tag Titles, since Penta and Fenix just won them recently. Iron Savages vs. Ren Jones & Logan Lynch For those not in the know, Iron Savages are perennial Dark/Elevation regulars “Bear Country” repackaged. I assume the opponents are enhancement talent. I am reserving judgment on this until I see it. Willow Nightingale vs. Robyn Renegade Speaking of talent Tony Khan seems determined to ram down everybody’s throat and make happen no matter what…here’s Willow Nightingale. I freely admit, I can’t stand her gimmick, she has the proverbial “change the channel” heat with me. Her music hits, and she comes bouncing out to the ring, grinning like a simpleton and waving to the fans while goofy music plays and cartoonish graphics are plastered on the tron. She’s like a cross between Bayley’s original gimmick and fucking Eugene. But she’s on ROH TV, every week…no matter what. Bleh. Hard pass. The Kingdom vs. Action Andretti & Darius Martin So I guess this is the match where we find out if the Kingdom/Top Flight feud is really going to continue with Andretti just sliding into Dante’s spot…or if this will wrap it up. I am somewhat curious to see how Martin & Andretti do. You’d think The Kingdom win here and maybe move into a rivalry with The Lucha Bros for the titles, but who knows.

Saw some news about this story finally reported today.

Nice, I might check that out. Was he any good?

I am probably the oldest active poster here at PWO, so it stands to reason that at 86 years old, my Dad is older than most of yours and saw stuff from an earlier era. My Dad claims he was at the infamous match where Killer Kowalski ripped off Yukon Eric’s ear. The date and location jibes with where he was at in life at that time, so I believe him. I am pretty sure he saw Whipper Billy Watson defend the NWA World Title at Maple Leaf Gardens too, but it might have been the NWA British Empire Championship that Watson used to defend in Toronto in later years, I’m not sure. My Dad also used to talk about some big wrestler named “Sky High Lee” who I have personally never heard of. My Dad was never a die hard fan, and by the time the 80’s boom hit, he had long since stopped watching and he HATED Vince McMahon and the WWF in that era. I only have two distinct memories from when I was a teenager with my Dad watching wrestling. He thought it was really funny that George Steele (who my Dad loved) was a comedy character because he said years before Steele had been presented as a real killer. I also remember him seeing me watching The Hart Foundation on TV, and he watched over my shoulder for a few minutes. He told me that Bret Hart was like what a “real Pro Wrestler should be…not all this cartoon crap.” At the time, I thought my Dad was nuts because The Hart Foundation had pretty much just formed, and to me at that time Bret was just a boring guy with no personality. The Anvil and Jimmy Hart were the exciting part of that team! Years later, when Bret became the champ, and a household name (especially here in Canada) my Dad saw him one night getting interviewed and looked at me and said: “See? Told you so.”

Tonight on Dy-no-mite… * AEW TNT Championship: Powerhouse Hobbs (c) vs. Wardlow * Jay White vs. Komander * The Acclaimed & Daddy Ass vs. Daddy Magic, Cool Hand Ang & Jake Hager * Britt Baker & Jamie Hayter vs. Toni Storm & Ruby Soho * FTR to speak * We’ll hear from the Elite * Adam Cole and Chris Jericho have a confrontation Some potentially interesting matches in here. Also, looking forward to seeing what’s next for FTR. I have avoided the spoilers for ROH on Honor Club this week, but on paper, the card actually looks a little bit better than recent weeks. Although, I could live a long, happy life and never see Colt Cabana wrestle again…and he is in the Main Event this week fighting Joe for the TV Title. Ugh.

Dax Harwood and Matt Koon claim AEW and Tony Khan did not ask them to end it, but Dax says the podcast was not accomplishing what he had hoped it would. He said the podcast was bringing heat on himself and especially Cash Wheeler, and he didn’t want to do that. He read a text message from Cash supporting him. He also pretty much admitted it was getting him heat with a lot of the AEW locker room. He mentioned how his publicly admitting that he was friends with CM Punk caused a lot more drama than he had anticipated. Harwood has been very open about his own mental health issues, and he basically said that the podcast wasn’t doing much for his mental health either, due to the level of hate it was causing to be aimed at him. So…looks like that’s that, I guess. Probably the smart decision.

They announced this podcast is done, as of today. They claim AEW and Tony Khan did not ask them to end it, but Dax says the podcast was not accomplishing what he had hoped it would. He said the podcast was bringing heat on himself and especially Cash Wheeler, and he didn’t want to do that. He read a text message from Cash supporting him. Harwood has been very open about his own mental health issues, and he basically said that the podcast wasn’t doing much for his mental health either, due to the level of hate it was causing to be aimed at him. So…looks like that’s that, I guess. Probably the smart decision.

That has been especially noticeable to me because here in Canada we can’t even watch Rampage on TV (and I assume we won’t be able to get the new show either.) Somebody will disappear from Dynamite and start wrestling on Rampage, or an angle/feud will start or continue there, and I will have no clue what the hell is going on.

I would like to address this issue because I feel it has gotten lost in the rest of the conversation. I freely admit I have a goatee. However my goatee comes with an explanation. I went clean shaven for my entire life, until I went on my honeymoon in Mexico in 1993, at which point I sustained such a terrible sunburn that I was unable to shave for two weeks (especially since the resort I was staying at had no hot water and I wasn’t going to shave my sunburned face with cold water.) Upon allowing my beard to grow in for two weeks, I was shocked to discover that my beard just does not grow in on the sides of my face, for some bizarre reason. I just naturally grew a goatee by accident. Upon growing the beard, people kept telling me that it looked good, and since I am naturally lazy, I decided to keep it because that meant I did not have to shave every morning from that point forward. Therefore, I feel I should be officially exempt from your mockery of people with goatees.

My main concern regarding Punk/Jericho is mostly centred around the quality of the actual match once they get it in the ring. The last Jericho match I remember thinking was really high quality was the PPV match with Eddie Kingston. I can deal with Jericho’s tired hipster act in a buildup, because if he tried to get shooty on Punk during a promo, Punk would eat his lunch. But Jericho is just too damn slow lately. I was especially disappointed with the match he had with Claudio at the ROH PPV a few months ago. that trilogy of matches with Danielson didn’t do a whole lot for me either, especially that one where he brought back his “Lionheart” character and spent most of the match trying to pull his pants up. He’s breaking down and Punk is breaking down and I honestly don’t know that they could pull off a decent match at this point.

SO MUCH THIS. Doing fake Pro Wrestling “work” angles on Twitter should be illegal. If you end up doing it and getting caught you should be sentenced to having to listen to every single podcast Vince Russo has ever recorded.

I would guess there are a few reasons Tony Khan didn’t fire Punk. Firstly, I think it’s a pretty safe bet that TK would have ended up having to eat a big chunk of Punk’s seven figure contract if he fired him, which probably wasn’t very palatable from a business standpoint. Second was the aforementioned injury. From a legal standpoint, it’s probably pretty hard to fire a guy who just tore a muscle working for you, just after he basically rushed back from a different injury. We all love to paint Vince McMahon as the ruthless businessman and Tony Khan as the friend to all Pro Wrestlers, and that’s probably true to a large degree…but I think a lot of times people forget that the Khan family are actually more successful in the business world than Vince ever was. Point being, you don’t get “Khan level” rich by signing guys to million dollar contracts and then firing them. I just have to believe that at some point, on some very basic level, Tony Khan would like a return on his investment. He sunk a ton of money, time and effort into signing Punk and that investment was really just starting to pay off when all this shit went down. Thirdly, I think maybe Khan didn’t just out-and-out fire Punk because he was afraid of the backlash both from his locker room and from the fans. I know a lot of hardcore fans and a lot of so-called “journalists” have painted it like pretty much 99% of the locker room does not want Punk back. None of us can know how true that really is. There have been a few notable names who have gone on record saying they like the guy. Of course FTR. But also Wardlow, Hobbs, Starks and even Danhausen. And trust me, speaking up in the AEW locker room, and saying that you actually like Punk is probably a good way to commit career suicide there. I bet there are more people that like him, that haven’t said anything out of self preservation. I bet Tony Khan was worried about pissing off a chunk of his talent if he just fired the guy, instead of fining or suspending him. As I mentioned earlier, there is a very loud contingent of AEW/Elite fans who appear to despise Punk and FTR, and they are VERY vocal about that. And I really don’t know what kind of response Punk would get if he came back. But I consider the fact that FTR get a shit-ton of hate online, but from where I sit they seem to be one of the most popular acts in the company. They may have cooled off a little bit now, but not that long ago they were white hot and were getting some of the most vocal reactions from the fans that I have heard in a long time. I don’t know if anybody remembers that segment a couple of months ago where The Young Bucks were cutting a promo, and the fans started chanting FTR, even though the segment and promo had nothing to do with them? I doubt Tony missed that. The final and most important point is that I think at his root Tony Khan is a wrestling fan first and foremost. I am betting he probably wanted to try and work this thing out, and not fire Punk because he thinks keeping him around could result in some excellent angles and matches, and in the end that’s probably what he wants most. But there sure do seem to be a whole hell of a lot of forces conspiring to try and stop that from happening. On all sides.

For whatever reason, there seems to be a somewhat large, very vocal group of fans (especially on Twitter) who just can’t seem to wrap their heads around the fact that there is plenty of blame to go around in this situation, and want to lay it all at Punk’s feet (with a bunch of additional blame directed at FTR, which is quite a feat considering they weren’t even in the building when the fight happened.) Let’s be real. Punk is a loudmouth, malcontent asshole for doing what he did at that press conference. If you want to make the argument that he deserved to be suspended, or maybe even fired for that, you would get no argument from me. But Kenny and The Bucks are also responsible for the fallout. Even if you want to throw out all of the “reporting” that was done about the incident afterwards as biased, consider this… Tony Khan clearly views disciplining his Locker Room the same way that Wesley Snipes views paying his taxes. But even the almighty TK thought that The Elite deserved to be suspended for three months after that fight. That should tell anybody all you need to know about there being more to this story than just Punk being an asshole. I freaking hate tribalism. I don’t understand why so called “smart fans” can’t admit when one of their favourites does something stupid. Hell, I love FTR to death, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think Dax shouldn’t cancel his podcast and shut his damn piehole.

Quite honestly…aside from the rumoured “dream” Trios match of Punk & FTR vs. The Elite…how much would The Bucks have to interact with Punk anyhow? Even if they don’t want to work with him, it honestly wouldn’t be a big loss. I know when he first came in, long before “The Incident” Punk had said he would have loved to work a Tag Match with Danielson as his partner against The Bucks, but fact is the money would be in Kenny vs. Punk. If Punk comes back and that match doesn’t happen…now that would be a shame. And I don’t even really like Kenny.

No, not Shooter. I have read that book, and I thought it was decent, but I am referring to the authorized biography on Ken Shamrock that Jonathan Snowden wrote: “Shamrock: The World’s Most Dangerous Man.” It’s a great sports biography. Snowden really did his research, the book is very in depth. It’s also surprisingly honest, and is willing to paint Shamrock in an unfavourable light at times, which is odd, considering he actually assisted with the project.

That’s right, Snowden was Evil Clown, not Killer Clown. It’s always disappointing when you see somebody online who you had previously liked or respected post something which is unnecessarily provocative or otherwise troll-like. I always liked that guy, but obviously other people had a very different experience with him. I happily concede your point, @NintendoLogic that Pancrase fights were not “worked” in the sense that those guys were not cooperating with each other, and were legitimately smacking and stretching the living hell out of each other. It’s just the outcome that was predetermined, which I imagine qualifies them as “fixed” not worked. Not unlike a couple of the early PRIDE fights, unfortunately.

Ken Shamrock finally admitted years later that at least some of the early Pancrase fights were worked. When he got asked during his RF Shoot Interview if Pancrase fights were fixed, he replied with the old “I’m not at liberty to say” which is carny for “yes.” But he finally came clean in that (outstanding) biography written by Jonathan Snowden a couple of years ago. I know that most people hate Snowden now due to his outrageous and highly combative online persona, but way back in the day at DVDVR he was actually really nice to me. (If I remember correctly his posting handle there was “Killer Clown” or something like that.) There was a thread where we were discussing early worked shoots, shoot style and MMA and he actually sent me a PM with some great match suggestions and advice regarding where to get them. Point is, like Snowden or not, his biography of Ken Shamrock is one of the most comprehensive, thoroughly researched and well written sports biographies I have ever read. And in that book, he confirms that some of the early Pancrease fights were worked. For what it’s worth, I think when they moved to having fights in the cage and using gloves and allowing strikes, they went 100% legit.

Whenever I get into a discussion with somebody about Lucha, I always end up remembering a kind of weird example from my own past as a Pro Wrestling fan. I don’t know if any of you guys have seen the early era Pancrase promotion from Japan. It was promoted as “Hybrid Wrestling” and was basically just grappling and submission holds. They didn’t even allow closed fist strikes of any kind. As soon as I saw it, I was hooked on that shit. I was a huge fan of Masakatsu Funaki, Ken (Wayne) Shamrock, Bas Fucking Rutten, and of course a very young Minoru Suzuki who was rocking a truly impressive pompadour. I could (and did) watch that shit all day. They were really going for as much realism as they could get. At the time there were even some fans who thought the matches were legit shoot fights. I distinctly remember discussing it back at DVDVR and some guy saying he thought it was boring as hell and stupid. I can actually remember the guy saying “Why would you want to watch Ken Shamrock rolling around on the ground with some Japanese guy for half an hour, grunting and sweating while he occasionally slaps the guy?” Fair point, I guess. Pancrase was kind of the polar opposite of Lucha Libre, they were trying to simulate an actual grappling match at the expense of all other possible traditional pro wrestling tropes. Some people couldn’t get into it, and even thought it was stupid, but I loved it. Conversely, Lucha Libre doesn’t really depend on any sort of reliance on a simulation of a legitimate physical fight, you just have to totally suspend disbelief and enjoy the aerobatic show. I don’t think one style is good and the other bad, and I don’t think one is right and the other wrong, I just know that I prefer my rasslin to be as realistic as possible, as absurd as that might sound when you are discussing Pro Wrestling.