Cross Face Chicken Wing

I just finished the All Japan 80s set so I'm diving back into the complete NWA 1989 season. Just watched Flair/Steamboat from Chi-Town Rumble and I forgot how goddam amazing that match is.

My friends and I didn't watch wrestling as smart fans when I was in high school. That's probably why we enjoyed the traditional Flair spots so much and wanted to see them. A "Flair formula" or analyzing wrestling in a "smart" way was the furthest thing from our minds. If Flair watched wrestling from a smart fan's perspective when he was a "kid," he likely wouldn't repeat his traditional spots like he does. You're absolutely correct in saying Ric did all of his traditional stuff because it made the faces look good and popped the crowd. Ric knows this because, well, almost every time he did these spots the faces looked good and the crowd popped. But in my opinion, to say that Ric's experience as a kid -- whether he was eight or 18, smart or dumb, understood the business or didn't understand the business -- didn't shape his reasoning for always doing these spots, even just a little bit, is wrong. So why didn't Ric just say in the interview that he does these spots because it pops the crowd? Probably because he was hung over. Or he just forgot. Or because there is a small kernal of truth to "kid" Ric Flair being disappointed in missing a traditional Stevens spot, so that's the part of his brain that kicked in when answering the question. We're picking nits on this issue, but I don't think Flair is completely full of shit when he cites being disappointed as a kid as his reason for doing all of his usual spots.

Did Flair ever say he was a little kid when (insert name of wrestler) let him down by not doing a signature move(s)? Now that I am an old fart at the age of 30, I refer to high schoolers and college undergrads as kids. I'm guessing when Flair refers to himself as a kid, he probably means between the age of 16-22. Either way, when I was a "kid" in high school and college, my buddies and I would be upset when Flair didn't do the flop, get tossed off the top rope or drill someone in the nuts. Whenever my wife gets sucked into a wrestling match that I'm watching, it's usually a match involving Flair and she always asks if he did the flop or somersaulted over the turnbuckle yet.

Nice. I don't remember Patera's name being on the marquee at all, but I could just be forgetting. Every show I went to started with some sort of angle involving Patera forcing Al-Kaissie and Irwin to wrestle someone in the main event.....I think once it was Lenny Lane and the other times I can't remember. You don't have any footage from Pierz, MN by chance? (A bustling metropolis of about 300 people in central Minnesota)

Another excellent show. It brought back memories of when Ken Patera called me when I was a junior in high school. Patera ran some shows in small town Minnesota in the late 90s using the AWA moniker. High school athletic clubs and other organizations would book Patera and the "AWA" as fundraisers. I tried getting my high school to bring them in, but it never happened. Patera was real gruff on the phone, but in a nice way (if that makes any sense). I went to three of Patera's "AWA" shows. A couple were in a small town gym not far from my hometown and another was in a bar with a ceiling so low that the workers couldn't use the top rope or safely execute a back body drop. The talent included Wild Bill Irwin, Lenny Lane, Horace the Psychopath and, of course, Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissie.

I don't like modern wrestling so I don't watch it. I remember not liking the WWF when it would get silly in the 80s and 90s, but I'd still watch it. I remember not liking WCW when Russo came aboard and it went off the deep end, but I watched until it folded. Now when I go back and watch the gimmicky stuff from the WWF and some horrible Russo-era WCW, it's kinda fun. I wonder if I watched the current product despite hating it if I'd go back 10 years later and get a kick out of it?

I also got bogged down around '87 in the All Japan set, so I started rotating between Buddy Rose, '89 NWA and the Memphis set. The switch kicked me in the ass, so now I'm motivated again to finish the All Japan set. The AWA set will be another kick in the ass, since that's the promotion that got me into wrestling.

I have nothing to contribute to this thread besides letting both of you know that these podcasts are excellent. Please keep them coming:)

All of the above. If I had to pick one topic I enjoyed the most, it would be behind the scenes information from the 80s and early 90s. If I had to pick one thing I enjoyed the least, it would be match reviews that include play by play of the match. I don't want to read play by play of a wrestling match. Just tell me what worked, what didn't, and what you thought about the match.

I was watching the VMAs on Sunday (don't judge me) and came to the conclusion that pop music has now morphed into the WWF. Almost every performer and presenter that showed his or her face at the VMAs had some sort of gimmick. Most wore crazy outfits, cut over the top interviews, and acted like a baffoon. Almost every performance was light on actual musical talent, but high on dancing, flying around and other activities that required a physical skill. And did anyone else see how Lady Gaga refused to leave the stage while Brittney Spears accepted her lifetime achievement award? If that's not the perfect setup to a wrestling angle, I don't know what is. I lost interest in the current version of the WWF (WWE) a while ago, but have started paying attention again thanks to the CM Punk angle. The Punk angle represents almost everything I enjoyed about wrestling: Larger than life, but somewhat believeable characters, promos and interactions with a certain level of tension and spontanaity in the air, and solid work in the ring. The Punk angle doesn't require overproduction and outrageousness to get over. It gets over because the people involved are talented and allowed to shine. Adelle was the CM Punk of the VMAs on Sunday. She didn't wear a silly outfit, have 100 dancers flopping around while she performed, or say anything after her performance that made her sound like a 10 year old. She went out there with a microphone and some dude playing the piano and just killed. Most people that sat through that entire debacle of a show agree that Adelle was by far the best performance of the evening. I know that part of being a pop star and a pro wrestler is to stand out, to one-up your competition and make sure people remember YOU when the night is done. But if everyone is trying to one-up each other with gimmicks and stupidity, why not try to steal the show with talent? Lady Gaga can sing. So can Neo and some of these other artists I can't remember at the moment. I wonder if they focused more on featuring their musical talents instead of their flair for the dramatic if a few more poeple would start buying albums again. That strategy seemed to work for CM Punk and the WWE. Since pop music is apparently trying to replicate the WWE, maybe it would work for the music industry too.

Eh. Obviously, my question wasn't, "WHAT was the article ABOUT?" My question was, "What was the point of the article?" As in, "What am I supposed to learn from this?" Which was, "Ric Flair is a scummy, irresponsible, cheating, money-stealing low life." Thing is, I already knew that. Just sounds like someone found some new information and decided to compile it a little bit more, which is why I am questioning it. What is the point of making an already horrible person look even worse when the facts he added only added up to something Ric had done before and was pretty much common knowledge to people that 1. know him and 2. know about him. I mean, I knew as far back as 2003 (1 year after I got online) that it would be behoove of me to avoid financial interactions with Ric Flair. Is it to protect the general public who don't know who Ric Flair is? I kinda doubt it. You might have already known about all of this stuff, but few others do. If Flair was just another washed out 80s wrestler, nobody would care and nobody would bother writing a story like this one. But Flair's a local celeb in the Carolinas and other places. Like Slickster highlighted, he's involved in local politics, promotions, and other activities. He should be held accountable the same way prominent businessmen or community leaders are held accountable if they fuck people over. And even if it was "common knowledge" that Flair was a scumbag, does that mean we should just look the other way? I compare this story to the Miami football program expose from a few weeks ago. Yeah, most people that follow college football had a pretty good idea that Miami was shady, but that doesn't mean we should look the other way and never acknowledge or confront the issue.

Flair still spends thousands of dollars per month on lavish housing, dining, and toys while owing money to several individuals and the government. The guy's a genius! I think I'd call Flair a lying, cheating, lowlife scumbag before I'd call him stupid.

Flair's a big time celeb in the Carolinas, not just some wrestler. As far as I know, no comprehensive review of his misdeeds has been done by a mainstream -publication. There have been short blurbs in the local papers whenever he has a run-in w/ the police, but that's about it.

I plan to later tonight. I can't go through the entire piece again right now, but I'm guessing it must've been in one of the divorce papers. I am interested with the source of that. Almost all of the rest of the items look like they're from court papers. There's some ugly stuff that's come out in them, no doubt some of it he-said-she-said... though not to the degree that Flair Defenders make out. But the alcoholic cardiomyopathy... where is that from? I don't think Ric would ever use it in one of his own filings, or cop to it in a depo unless really pushed with clear evidence. I would guess that it might be in the last divorce and that she dropped it into the record. His twitter is: @TobaccoRdBlues Can someone on twitter ask him the source of that specific item? John

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/689179...stler-real-life Most of the people on this board are probably familiar with everything discussed in this story, but it's still very depressing to read all of this when it's clumped together.

I enjoyed the contract signing last night but the Punk/Cena/HHH segments are way.....too.....long.

I don't watch the current product but this Punk/Vince dustup has drawn me back in. Last night's contract negotiation segment was pure gold until Cena interjected. Instead of letting Cena go off on a long promo like he did, they should've had him run-in, cut something short and sweet about Punk being a whiny baby, tell Vince that the WWE is better w/out Punk, tear up the contract himself, and promise he'll win on Sunday so WWE can be rid of Punk once and for all and not have to worry about him carrying out the title. Maybe they're too worried about portraying Cena as the heel in this whole deal, but I think if Cena acted more like a tough guy instead of bad stand-up comedian, the fans would react accordingly. Right now Cena almost seems like a fifth wheel.

My mom finally said enough was enough and cleaned out the closet that was storing all of my wrestling VHS dubs. It's been 11 years since I moved out of my parent's house, and last night my mom and dad dropped off two large plastic bins, a large box and two smaller boxes filled with all of my old wrestling VHS dubs. I hate clutter and storing random shit in my house, so I will likely be throwing most of these tapes in the garbage. Even though I now have everything on DVD in much higher quality, it's still going to be weird throwing all of those tapes away. Tape trading provided many great memories growing up: The first time I watched the "Best of Starrcade" VHS and becoming hooked on 80s era Crockett, watching Super J-cup '94 and becoming a workrate snob, waiting for random ECW epidsodes to arrive, and arguing with my parents about buying more tapes, shipping costs and getting a second VCR. How many of you have departed with your VHS collections? Was it difficult?

My parents would sporadically buy me PWI or something similar right around the time when I started to think that girls were hot instead of full of cooties. I remember many of these magazines advertising nude womens wrestling videos in the back, complete with descriptions and pictures (albeit with a black bar across the naughty parts). These mags really heped me grow into the male chauvinist pig that I am today.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/667145...itol-punishment I've always enjoyed The Masked Man's "Dead Wrestler of the Week" columns for Deadspin. Looks like he's also contributing to Bill Simmons' new Grantland site.

AWA - Grew up watching the AWA in the late 80s so it always has a place in my heart. Most of my memories come from when it was basically already dead, so I'm looking forward to the AWA 80s set so I can view the entire promotion as a whole and compare it to my nostalgic memoris. Georgia - From what little I've seen, I have enjoyed. Memphis - Fun, but not something I could watch without taking extended breaks between viewings. World Class - Never cared for the Von Erichs until I watched the DVDVR set and was blown away with Kerry. The whole territory was fun, but it doesn't come near Crockett or Mid South IMO. Florida - Haven't seen much. Mid-South - Logical, fun, intense, nostalgic, entertaining, impressive.....I could go on and on because I loved the mid-south. WWF - Like the AWA, I grew up with the WWF and will anlways enjoy it. NWA (Crockett) - My personal favorite. It had something for just about every type of wrestling fan. AJPW - I'm four discs into this set and the reamining discs are anything like the first four, AJPW might end up being my No. 1. NJPW - Only familiar with the juniors in the mid 90s. Portland - Just digging into Will's Buddy Rose comp. The announcer cracks me up. St. Louis - Haven't seen much. Joshi - Haven't seen anything. Lucha - Not a big fan. My top 5: 1. Crockett 2. Mid South 3. World Class 4. Texas 5. WWF, AWA, AJPW, Memphis Yes, there are eight territories in my top 5:) I expect AJPW to move up as I watch more.

Few problems with this scenario. Firstly, I guess Rock isn't going to be around much over the next nine months and doesn't want to wrestle until next year's Mania. Secondly, I can't see them turning Cena because he's such a merchandise draw for them and there's no-one ready to replace him in that role. I mean out of touch Vince was so desperate for the fans not to boo Cena at Mania that's why he brought in a gospel choir to sing Cena's entrance music on the show. Given that they want to recreate The Rock vs. Hogan vibe, they should have turned Rock cool heel. The hardcore audience would still cheer Rock, perhaps even more so, while keeping Cena a babyface to his loyal kid fanbase. Like I said, I don't watch any more so I am probably way off, but what little I've watched of the Rock's return seems like a wasted opportunity. That's fine if he's not going to be around much until next year's WM. Have him appear at Raw ocassionally and help Cena out at Summer Slam and Royal Rumble. You could still build to a Hogan/Rock vibe with that scenerio. It makes a lot more sense that having the two insult each other for six weeks, Rock cost Cena the title, then magically find mutual respect for each other one night later.

I don't watch any more, but building up Rock/Cena for a year sounds like pure silliness. Wouldn't it have made more sense to bring in Rock, team him up with Cena for a couple of PPVs, then book the breakup and WM match? It just seems like there's money to be made by having them team as faces for a while before turning Cena. It also allows for Vince to be more flexible instead of locking himself into a WM main event a year in advance.