anarchistxx

I liked Van Dam's offence. It was athletic, looked cool, always got a pop. Moreover it was his own, which is more than you can say for most signature spots. - Rolling thunder - Spinning leg drop - Spinning leg drop from apron to barricade - Split legged moonsault - Flip to the outside - Van Daminator - Van Terminator - Standing moonsault All of those moves went over great, often looked spectacular, and a lot of it almost unique to himself. Sure, he used to blow off selling and get caught up in his routine, but that criticism applies to 75% of wrestlers. Some of it was contrived, but again, internet darlings like Mysterio and Flair also do their fair share of contrived shit. And that's just his regular stuff, besides all the cool things he used to do in ECW. Not to mention all the cool kicks he pulls out. His punches weren't the best but his kicks were among the best in the industry, especially clear today when you see so many workers doing that horrible spot kicking the guy on his knees. Punk and Mysterio especially have terrible looking kicks.

I think that's the most tragic part of Owen's young death: he only saw it as a job, for him it wasn't a matter of life and death at all.

I remember watching RVD wrestle Jeff Hardy at Invasion 2001 and thinking he was going to be a megastar. He had an aura about him, a complete connection with the crowd, not to mention some incredible offense, a superstar air of arrogance and a willingness to take major bumps. He was ridiculously over for a few months, and probably the only guy who came out of that entire storyline looking good. It seemed a lock that they would hotshot the title belt on him at any point. It was all downhill from there, unfortunately, and for the last ten years he has been coasting on the reputation he earned during his ECW run. I don't think I could name a memorable RVD match, promo or angle since 2001, and even though I haven't seen a ridiculous amount in that period it says a lot for where he has been as a worker. The Cena match was special because of the context and location, but objectively it isn't anything better than alright. So is this a guy who was lazy and unmotivated, and wasted his talent? Or was he hamstrung by ten years of terrible booking that held him back from being the star he could have been? I actually think it was more of the latter. I know is ECW work isn't fashionable in the slightest anymore but I love it - hot angles, fun matches, crazy spots, and he was indisputably the star of the company during this time. Nearly all my favourite parts of the promotion involve him, from the Bam Bam match, the incredible Lawler segment, matches with Sabu, tags with the Eliminators, the long TV title reign that everyone dug at the time. Even his promos were pretty good back then, they felt natural. Not seen nearly as much as Dylan but what I have seen has been awesome. His WWF work in 2001 is very solid, very entertaining, and a prime example of crowd reaction enhancing something - a lot of it felt special because Van Dam felt special. The Austin/Angle/RVD triangle was very fun, and I still maintain that RVD/Hardy is one of the most underrated matches I have seen, pretty much the perfect example of that style and the perfect introduction of RVD to the promotion, feeding off the molten crowd. I have a good idea of how this thread if going to go but I wanted to go to bat for Van Dam anyway - if he had won the World Title in 2001 he could have been a major star imo.

I always thought Sydal had the look and ability to be a big draw for WWE, right back to his ROH days. He is spectacular and smooth and crisp, sells beautifully, takes a beating, takes enough cool risks that the males love him and he also draws in the female fans for obvious reasons. At one point it seemed like he could be a successor to Rey Mysterio, not necessarily in ability but in his place on the card. Unfortunately it never seemed to work out, though with Jeff Hardy's redemption a few years ago I wouldn't totally rule out him returning to be a major player.

Fuck me, listening to Cole and Lawler's pretend laughter during the last segment of Raw is embarrassing. It's the WWE equivalent of a laugh track.

I know, but he was pretty enthusiastic and infectious. His presence amongst the site leadership probably made it more acceptable for people to openly like people working the acrobatic modern junior style. Seems that the majority switch away from that in those parts has coincided with his absence.

Ah, fair enough. Juniors are out of fashion around these parts and DVDVR anyway, as is the style they work, has been for a long time. Is the shift in trends in any [part due to the departure of Rob Naylor? He always seemed to rep the spectacular flippy floppy guys. Most people getting hype these days are veterans working classic style or guys who do the simple things really well like Mark Henry. In other corners someone like Ibushi has been getting crazy love for a few years, along with a lot of Dragon Gate workers.

The match with Van Dam in ECW was incredible, fuck knows who was responsible for that being so good. It was sort of a perfect storm type situation where the guys were somehow perfectly matched physically and stylistically, RVDs schtick worked really nice with Bigelow as a base. The crowd dives still look amazing to this day. Guess I'd need to see more of his Memphis and WCW stuff, I certainly never rated Bam Bam on his WWF work. The ECW matches I've seen have been better as a general rule, or maybe they were just worked looser.

WWE is smart if they go on demand with 24/7, it seems to be the future of broadcasting. Even the BBC is making their stuff available on demand before it even airs in a traditional timeslot. In a few years I doubt if many channels will even be broadcasting programming at specific times, other than those such as sport channels that rely on live events. A good proportion of television will be on demand only.

KENTA? Marafuji? Nakajima? Ibishi? All got significant hype as juniors. Unless you were referring to NJPW only.

I'm drifting in and out of Raw, but I'm sure The Rock has been 'up next' for about an hour now. Totally missed Dutch Mantel, I was washing the dishes at the time. Caught the stretch of Bryan/Jericho which was indeed very good. The Shield have a cool look, they would do to differentiate the three of them though, especially for the longer term. Amborse needs to amp up the crazy stuff, Rollins needs to be cooler and more laid back, Reigns needs to shout more. Hope they keep them together for a while, stables break up far too quickly nowadays. Even if they are doing separate things on the card they should be positioned as allies. Means more when they break up then.

That isn't what we're discussing here, though, it it? We're discussing Colt as a worker. You seem to be letting your distaste for his personality and attitude take over, most of your posts have been about what he is like outside of the ring. I don't care whether it will win him points with Vince - I simply think that wrestling would be more entertaining as a whole if there was more of a hierachy, if more people came in with the intention of creating fun, over characters who fitted nicely in the mid-card. Sure as hell more entertaining than a ton of Dolph Ziggler/Jack Swagger clones. He's alright at what he does but I find a lot of it pretty embarrassing. Just too unsubtle and over the top and so obvious in the 'humour'. Maybe, I've not watched him in a while. Cabana in 2004/2005 is way, way better than Santino in 2013 for my money.

Speaking of Boss Man angles that came in for abuse, I loved the whole Big Show charade in late 99. You're a nasty bastard, Paul Wight. The towing away of the coffin with Big Show clinging on to it was one of the more hilarious things the WWF ever did. More people should work heel like Traylor did in that angle, it was proper despicable lowlife heel shit, no trying to be cool or subdued victim promos, just vile actions and over the top promos. Promo sums the feud up nicely -

I'm not a massive fan if Colt or anything, but a lot of what is being said here seems a bit off. Santino is a fucking horrible worker, for a start, the worst type of 'comedy' where everything is obvious and oversold and pretty embarrassing if a non-wrestling-fan walked into the room. He has a terrible look, too. Judging it on ring work Colt is a million times better than him - can anyone name a memorable Santino match? Colt had a lot of good matches on the indies in different styles. I think the problem with Cabana is that his comedy stuff gets old real quick - he is like a relic of the touring days where you could work the same match on house shows in different cities and territories. Or a stand up comedian who does the same act every night across the country. Once everything is televised and on DVD you have to start getting a bit more creative. He certainly peaked from 2003 to 2006 when he was working with all his buddies and ROH was a genuinely hot promotion. In recent years he has seemed very jaded and washed up. The last time I remember having a lot of fun watching him was as Matt Classic in Wrestling Society X, that gimmick and promotion had legs I thought if it was done a bit better. This point riles me up a little. More people should aspire to be comedic mid-carders, to be strong, unique, over characters who didn't necessarily need a world title run. For a start it lessens this bullshit booking now, where someone comes in, gets a mega-push, either gets hot-shotted a world title or is jobbing out within a few months becaise their character has nowhere to go. You look at the WWF roster in 2000 when the product was good and the ratings were huge. Scotty '2' Hotty, Grandmaster Sexay, Crash Holly, Kaientai, Dudley Boyz, Val Venis, even guys like Edge & Christian - all were fun, entertaining midcarders who were way down from the main event scene. There was a hierachy, and it made the top guys look better. These days it seems like everyone is either on the upper level or a total jobber, there is no in-between. There is no stricture or pacing to the shows. They have World Title matches opening shows, for fucks sake. If anything what they need most is guys like Colt, fun acts to put on early on the card and get the crowd going. The style Colt works he is never going to be the main guy of a company - why shouldn't he be reconciled with that and aim for something achievable? The good thing about Colt is that he can work a character that isn't exclusively comedy, so you get the entertaining stuff but he's also capable of segueing into more serious matches and a workrate style. I think he offers a lot to a company like WWE, but the ship has long sailed for him. He needed to strike when he was still relatively hot.

Dylan in the Comments thread: I haven't seen it all in years. Bear in mind that a compilation of everything he ever did could probably take up 5,000 hours, so it isn't a stretch to say you could get twenty hours of good stuff from that, especially if you like WWE style matches/angles around the turn of the last century. Match wise, you could go: vs Rock (Summerslam 98) vs Cactus Jack (Rumble, No Way Out) vs Benoit (Raw, No Mercy) vs Benoit/HBJK (Wrestlemania 20) vs Austin (No Way Out 01) vs Taka Michinoku vs HBK (Raw) vs Jericho (Fully Loaded) vs Rock (Iron Man Match) w/Austin vs Benoit/Jericho Many WWE nuts reckon these matches are all time classics, not that I'd agree personally. I'm sure there are a few TV gems over the years as well, I seem to remember a few fun Evolution tags among other things. He must have had a decent match or two with Flair, maybe with Orton or Cena or Jeff Hardy although I've not seen anything really from 2005-2011 except for his Wrestlemania matches. The Cena match at Wrestlemania 2006 had a fantastic crowd and atmosphere which makes it at least of interest, even for those who detested the way the match was worked. Did the DX comeback result in anything decent? Add in a few promos and angles and you could easily get twenty hours of stuff that was decent enough, Trips has worked with a lot of talented people over the years, enough to drag something enjoyable out of his fairly serviceable talents.

I agree with this. By that point people will be cherry picking the matches and angles to watch: they won't have any experience of tuning in to his boring twenty minute promos every week, or a lot of the dud matches he had. Overexposure is a major explanation for the hate he gets - he has literally been on television every week for nearly twenty years and has barely changed his act in that time. I feel like he hasn't pushed himself at all. I know we're down on moves these days, but his repertoire really consists of three or four spots he goes through every match, and he doesn't have any believable finish except for the pedigree which makes it all a bit mundane. You could definitely put together a ten disc comp of his good matches and angles which would convince someone who hadn't seen him before that HHH was a good worker though, and nearly all fans except for the uber-smarks on boards like this consider him a great.

Can't believe the hate the finish/restart is getting. It was not only fine but it also made sense. I thought it came across pretty well, even if the final pin seemed a bit rushed and fell flat. JDW explained it all perfectly. For all the godawful finishes in the history of US I can't believe someone would single this out as especially bad. The crowd ate it up. The Rock looked like a badass, desperate for a restart, fighting through the pain to finally get his hands on the belt. Vince looked like a man coming through on his promise to deliver justice. The Shield looked strong putting down the star attraction for five minutes. The slimy heel Punk gets his comeuppance for months of clinging onto his belt through cheating and lying. Jesus, there were far worse things on that very PPV than the finish. Justice was served, the uber face fought the odds and foiled the cheating of the dastardly heels for a happy ending. That's just wrestling for the past fifty years, no?

Main event was pretty good, similar to the rest of the PPV in that it was good but nothing to get excited about. At least the title change felt special, which is rare these days. Proper big match feel as well. Presumably Punk gets his rematch at Elimination Chamber. On the whole a 6/10 type PPV, worth a watch but I'm still glad I didn't pay for it. Nothing made me desperate to tune into Raw tomorrow night. It was kind of embarrassing that Punk's picture perfect flying elbow gets a two count, and then thirty seconds later Rock puts him down with a weak standing elbow that is a standard low level bit of offence in most matches. No point complaining about stuff like that, though, you know what you're getting. You either watch it and accept it or you don't.

Eighteen members viewing this topic, thirty nine overall. When did this board blow up so much? That promo by The Rock was excellent, a real case of getting the crowd completely on board.

Overall the Rumble was a bit drab, despite the surprises. The Bryan/Kane and Kofi spots were fantastic though. Didn't seem as special not going last.

Mysterio looks horrible. Is he just rusty or is he usually this bad nowadays?

Goldust/Dusty v Rhodes/Sandow would be a fun little match.

I don't recall it either. 'You still got it' chant, he was only gone for three or four months. Loved the "I never lost it baby" reply though.

That picked the show up just a bit. Ziggler/Jericho at Wrestlemania?

Royal Rumble match already? The pacing on this show is all wrong. If they had cut all the dreary padding they could have got Miz/Cesaro on the card and had the world title match third. The whole WWE charitable moral saviour stuff is laughable. "Be yourself, embrace the fact you are different'. From the company where almost everyone has the same clean cut, chiselled, bland look and half the 80s and 90s wrestlers died young under pressure to get the steroid look to fit in.