anarchistxx

Daresay he's reappeared under another name. He could be here on this very board. People that obsessive about a hobby don't just ditch it straight away because of a social embarrassment, especially considering just posting on a hardcore wrestling fan board and going to indie shows is a massive social embarrassment in itself.

You might remember him as Smoove Luv B on Smarkschoice.

Nobody, but if, as you say, he is a top ten candidate for the year, he will have to stand up to comparison with the other people on that list. Unless we suggest that Punk has had an abnormally great year and is a far and away better candidate than anyone else in the top ten. Or if we suggest that it has been an awful year for wrestling.

Granted, I've been out the loop but the idea of Jerry Lawler being wrestler of the year in 2011 is absolutely laughable. When will the masturbating over this guy stop? I saw a couple of the WWE matches mentioned and they were pretty average. There were some great punches though. Can anyone seriously make the case that Lawler had a better year in ring than CM Punk? I guess it goes with the current smark trend of loving older, veteran guys, that has seen much adoration for Black Terry and Sting/Hogan at Bound For Glory and someone like Bully Ray who's been universally dismissed as a worker for years.

I'm not really an expert on any of the more obscure stuff, but as for the Vader matches, you want; WCW Championship Sting v Vader (WCW Great American Bash 12/07/1992) Vader v Sting (WCW Starrcade 12/28/1992) Sting v Vader (WCW Superbrawl 1993) Sting v Vader (WCW Slamboree 1994) All awesome matches, and surprisingly different as well, they certainly didn't just go out and have a replica match four times. Highlight of the careers of both I'd say.

Isn't (or wasn't?) the consensus that; - Styles was an athletic but uninteresting worker, capable of a very good match with a talented opponent yet too characterless to be considered a really top wrestler? His status was more interesting in and around 2003/2004, where in many quarters he was still an Indy superworker, yet his TNA work was alienating him to ROH fans who were getting behind their own emerging stars and a lot of smarks were turning on his output as soulless and lacking in 'telling a story' (which was the big craze back then, along with limb part selling). - Daniels is another indie superworker who was being praised in the tail end days of WCW and also in many parts when he was having 60 minute draws with Styles on indie shows. Some people still liked him by the mid-decade, but the tide was turning. I think he's a horrible worker, no character, no edge to anything he does, makes every match look like a dull exhibition, can't talk, can't sell a feud on the mic or in the ring, looks shit. Amazing this dude was ever considered a top worker, but that's just the taste of the time. - Homicide has never really been talked about as a top worker, more as a very good brawler, especially in his series with Corino and to a lesser extent with the ROH/CZW stuff. I remember his team with Hernandez getting praised as well. I liked him more as a member of the Rottweilers, one of my favourite groups in recent memory. I stopped watching ROH around the time of his face push towards the world title before he left for TNA, that role really didn't fit him at all IMO. Anyway, I think the general reaction to Cide is that he's solid if unspectacular, one of those who'll never appear on any 'worst of' lists but probably not that often on 'best of' lists either. Of the three, only Styles has the body of work to be considered for top ten of the decade, and even then it's entirely subjective on whether you like his style much, as he really doesn't change at all as a worker throughout the decade or indeed match to match. You pretty much know what you're getting with an AJ Styles match. Homicide may be a cult, sleeper candidate, but I'd be more inclined to nominate someone like Low Ki, who had interesting matches throughout the decade and managed to maintain this huge aura despite never being a particularly good speaker.

I didn't think those Benoit/Finlay matches were particularly good at all. They were decent exhibitions, but there was no tension, adrenaline, excitement. It was just a decent stiff workrate match with nothing behind it. OK if you like that sort of thing, but calling them 'great' is a real stretch, to me a truly 'great' match has a certain edge or intangible factor that gets you involved and tense. The only interesting thing about that match was that it was Benoit against Finlay. The live crowd was bored shitless as I remember, and that surely has to count for something. This is an almost perfect tag team match if you ask me. They all bring the hate, there's a great angle going in and a reason for the grudge that goes beyond Ki just being an angry cunt. The heat segment on Lethal is fantastic, brilliant FIP work and then Joe with the hot tag is electric, the crowd are loving it which isn't something you can always say about the ROH audience. The near fall period is gripping and once again they're bringing the real hatred, and the subsequent brawl is out of this world good, coming across as chaotic and violent without having to use crazy stunts. No 'this is awesome' or 'this is wrestling' chants, just people captivated by a wonderfully worked match. Pretty underrated.

It's an interesting question, given the demise of WCW and how useless TNA was ring wise. Then you have Ring of Honor working a style completely different to WWE, so you have to take into account people's preferences for that. ROH in ring from 2003-2006 was a fantastic run, though I've not gone back to see if any of it held up. Since 2007 I've really only seen the really pimped stuff, but the people that spring to mind are: 1. Samoa Joe - I saw a bit TNA the other week and his fall off has been dramatic. That makes people forget that as his peak, he might have been the best monster out there, that eighteen month title reign was superb, you had this dude destroying people yet there was still always a chance he might lose. A lot of credit goes to the booking here, which was excellent for the period. Punk v Joe II was absolutely incredible for many at the time, and in ring there is just tons of stuff to recommend him, v Jay Briscoe in the cage, 2003? v Danielson (MXR, 04) v Punk, last two matches was their series are all top class v Necro Butcher, insane match, holds up, one of those legitimate "WTF this is fucking awesome" matches w/Lethal v Homicide/Low Ki (2005/2006?), one of the best US tags of all time as I recall Then there's the TNA stuff with Sabin, Styles and others, and more divisive stuff like the Kobashi matches, the Ki match from 02, Morishima stuff 2. Bryan Danielson - Pretty much a lock in pick for most people's top ten I would have thought, astonishingly consistent worker, his heel run with the belt 06-07 really added to it, there was some funny stuff in there with all the 30+ minute matches. Too many matches to talk about really, I tend to think Joe's best matches are better whereas Dragon has a greater body of work 3. Rey Mysterio - I don't Rey as much as some, but for someone who's been active the whole decade and been always at a top level, you can't really ignore him. I tend to disagree with the current tide of opinion and think 2002 was his best year of the decade, when he was fresh and athletic and trim, he looks physically in the best shape of his life and all the matches are crisp. The Smackdown 6 stuff is all pretty good, the Summerslam match with Angle and the match with Benoit especially stand out. Other than that, it's hard for me to pick individual matches as I can't remember much, but the key is I can't remember any bad matches either. 4. Chris Benoit - Had a fabulous run the first few years of the decade. The feud with Rock was fun, the feud with Jericho produced some amazing matches, some great tags like the 2/00 Raw 10 man and the Power Trip v him and Jericho. Smackdown 6 stuff holds up as alluded to, the 2003 feud with Lesnar and Cena was fun, the title win was not a great match but a great moment and him dropping the belt to Orton is highly underrated. Plus he had a load of good TV stuff. 5. Chris Jericho - Great promo guy, great character guy, and there's also some great matches in there as well. Has longevity, which really helps him, I haven;t seen the series with Michaels but I gather it's pretty good so he's still got it today by most accounts. Did well to change his character from the catchphrase Attitude-era face to the reasoned heel, and was pretty influential in that regard if you watch Punk's recent promos. Other guys who are in the top ten mix are, - Eddie Guerrero - Had a two or three great years, but only lasted half the decade and was missing in action for 2001 as well, so you've only got four years to pick from - CM Punk - Consistent, good interview, only maybe one world class match but a load of very good stuff to go with it - Kurt Angle - Hated by the DVDVR/PWO crowd...yet still consistently over (if at the expense of overkilling moves for the cheap pop), at the top for a long time and was a consistently solid, if repetitive worker with the odd really excellent match (v Rock at No Way Out, v Rey, v Benoit) - Low-Ki - A guy who had something special about him and a real charisma...probably never developed into a truly world class worker like a lot of people thought he would at the turn of the decade - John Cena - Solid worker, I'm not seeing the great matches but someone who's higher on him than me may disagree with that - Steve Austin - 2001 was the best year of anyone in the decade, but he has nothing else really, so can't be top ten contention for me - Undertaker - Consistently delivered in big matches - Necro Butcher - repetetive, garbage wrestling, I fucking love it, he's got some highly entertaining stuff - AJ Styles - Not a fan myself, but he's been on top having 'workrate' matches for years so someone must love him Personally, I prefer watching more 'fun' guys like Jack Evans and emo-period Jimmy Jacobs to a lot of these guys. I also think 2001 RVD was a great run from the decade. However the guys listed above are the only real legitimate candidates to me, unless I've missed anything out.

It's pretty ridiculous (though not at all surprising) that they've taken a super hot program that could have carried them right through to Wrestlemania and pretty much hot shotted it in that you can't see the conclusion coming any later than Survivor Series. They are blowing the marquee match with just a couple of weeks notice on a completely minor PPV, and you have to assume the logical end to all this is HHH going over Punk at Hell in the Cell, given that it's his 'signature match' and all. Really, they should have taken Punk off TV longer, but even then the program wasn't a disaster through Summerslam whereas ever since it has lost steam considerably. They could have done the Nash feud even with some sort of non-match at the next event (or morphed it into a handicap/tag match where Punk is searching for a partner all night, even bringing Cabana back for a one shot though that's more than a little fanciful), and then done some kind of multi-man match at Survivor Series, a final Punk/Cena at the final event of the year, a Rumble storyline that writes itself then a feud finally with Triple-H leading to the big match at Wrestlemania to co-headline with Rock/Cena, Undertaker v ? and the World Title match/matches, depending on whether they plan to merge them. Stacked card with a long build. It's even more bizarre in an era where they don't mind having Christian and Randy Orton having a feud lasting six months, yet once they stumble onto something that is over, entertaining and fresh, it's veering quickly ahead to the end in just a couple of months.

I think the lack of comments last night can be equated to the angle taking a more linear turn - argument over who's the top challenger, no. 1 contender match, screw-job distraction finish that keeps both faces strong and beatdown by the heel champion to give some meat to the title feud. Nothing new to see there, and less of the insider stuff from Punk and less of the general air of surprise and energy that has characterised the angle so far. That's not to say it was bad, as it achieved what it was supposed to, and the initial promo was certainly fun. Looks like they're either going triple threat for the next event or Punk v Nash. Even with the state of Nash these days, I hope it's the latter, three way title matches are formulaic and almost always unsatisfactory. At least there's a perverse fascination with seeing a CM Punk v Kevin Nash match, especially if you've followed Punk since the indies where such a thing would have seemed even more surreal and ludicrous.

I think that's kind of the cool thing about this feud, in that a lot of the guys have undefined roles. Cena is the only true face (and he's getting mixed reactions as always), whereas Punk and HHH are getting decent reactions without necessarily being positioned as traditional face characters, and guys like Nash, Jonny Ace and Vince at the start are all kind of in the middle. It makes things a bit more unpredictable and actually makes the crowds hotter, contrary to that tired view that you shouldn't confuse the audience as to who they are meant to cheer for. That's why it's disappointing if it breaks down into the worn linear angles of Punk v The Establishment and Cena v Disposable Heel.

They should save Punk/Trips until Wrestlemania IMO, give both a match that feels both important and fresh.

Still, they're more entertaining than a post waxing lyrical about Lawler's punches.

^^^ You're disproving your own point. Most of the opinions you accuse him as having there ('Memphis sucks', 'fighting spirit', 'stampede the best' etc) are fairly contrarian nowadays, especially in the circles he posts. It's good to hear a dissenting voice, even if it may be wrong, when everyone else is waxing lyrical about Lawler and dark bloody Memphis brawls and how fighting spirit sucks and is OTT. It's not 2001 anymore - his opinions perhaps reflected the original 'paint by numbers smart mark' but they in no way represented the consensus of internet fans today. Many of his posts were slightly bizarre and questionable but at least he had opinions different than what the majority were stating. He certainly didn't deserve the treatment he received.

I think there's still a ton of mileage left in Punk/Cena. WWE seems to make it a habit these days of stretching their main event feuds out for months (Orton/Christian), yet now when they have a super hot main event feud which is delivering in the ring and on the mic and in every possible way, they cut off the legs so we can get a Rebel v Authority Figure feud and a Cena v One Dimensional Stooging Heel. Two feuds which have ben seen dozens and dozens of times over the last ten years. I feel like last night they went from something original (which potentially could have encompassed other workers than Cena/Punk without losing the central thread of intrigue) to two really straightforward, dull angles. It didn't help that Raw itself was absolutely horrible, but to me they've made a huge misstep here, and I'm an optimist whose been happy with every turn in the angle except Summerslam and Punk coming back too early.

Intriguing so far tonight, the Punk/Nash promo was gold, Nash looked legitimately pissed. The logical conclusion of the 'Who Text Nash' angle is that Del Rio stole HHH's phone or something.

Del Rio really isn't good enough to be anywhere near this angle. He seems a glorified comedy character from what I've seen in the past few weeks, and not in a good 'stooging heel' kind of way. That aside, these Money In The Bank cash ins are getting pretty predictable, and serve to devalue a title if the champion can just be beaten that way constantly. It's a dull way to change a belt and does nothing to get the new champion over. It doesn't even give them much heat anymore, since it has been done so regularly. It's like the new WWE equivalent of the Dusty Finish. Probably best to judge after Raw tonight, but I don't really like his involvement.

Pretty sure my recommendation will do far more harm than good, but he was actually a really nice dude. I seem to recall talking to him a fair bit when we co-moderated some sub-forum on Smarkschoice in 2005 or so. I think he's been the victim of some serious cyber bullying though, and while many of his statements have been outlandish he doesn't really deserve the focused, incessant derision that often came from many people at once, some who seemed to make it a duty to try and provoke/insult/belittle him. His treatment in some ways represents the very worst of the internet. He was, at least, an intriguing guy who had something different to say, which improves considerably on the vast number of clones/sheep who defer to the views popular of the time and have nothing to say of any interest or insight.

Without wanting to wish death on anyone, I think the product would be improved. People would have to pull out all the stops to prove that the company is still alive, and some fresh ideas would come into play. Plus, the public sympathy with the WWE about what happened would be great publicity, and the viewing figures would likely increase.

Well, things differ from region to region. This is a statement that is an absolute cliche of racists, I know, but I actually have quite a lot of asian friends, and some black friends, and I don't think they'd be particularly offended if I used the word 'coloured'. It is contextual anyway, as said. I don't think the majority of people in England are overly prejudiced; obviously there's the BNP and UKIP minority, and a load of people from impoverished backgrounds or council estates who regard The Sun as their bible and Jeremy Kyle as the greatest TV show ever (to be fair, it's great fucking entertainment). Even here the focus of prejudice is shifting to Eastern Europeans for supposedly taking jobs and benefit claiming asylum seekers. But overall, this is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. The only trouble I can remember in my city was a minor BNP protest outside a mosque that the police moved on swiftly.

It certainly isn't an offensive term here, but there you go. I have no idea how southern whites talk, having never come into contact with any of them. I find something like the commonly used 'African American' a lot more disparaging; why not merely 'American'?

Well, I'd rather watch him wrestle than read your tedious posts and worthless threads, but that isn't saying much. Still, you get top marks for kissing DVDVR arse. A refreshing sentiment, especially since 'Jerry Von Kramer' actually has no clue about anything to do with it, since he wasn't around at the time. My view is that the subject should be dropped for good, but then it isn't me who brings it up. However, I've said to Loss before, if he doesn't want me posting on here then I'll leave, it isn't as if I'm a regular poster.

What evidence do you deduce this from, other than the four or five posts I made at the time in the heat of a political argument? I was a racist at the time; I was fifteen, the phase lasted a few months. Subsequently I apologised and assured people my views had changed, so on that front you are constructing a fabrication. Go back through the posts on here if you don't believe me. I shouldn't have to footnote every reply thereafter with assurances to the board that I have changed my opinions - for a start, no one gives a shit except for you and Bix. Nobody wants to hear about it - the whole point of this board was that it was solely about Wrestling, not about off topic, or politics, or petty internet disputes. The only people who ever bring it up are you and Bix. Care to produce these mountains of 'loony' posts? 'Everyone' isn't obsessed; you are obsessed. You still haven't answered the pivotal question; why do you care so much, when nobody else does? Pretty sure El-P was on the Smarkschoice forums at the time and he wasn't even aware of it. This was not some gargantuan event; it was an internet political argument with some unsavory views that only you bring up time and time again. It is incredible that you cared enough at the time to use every opportunity to find a fifteen year old boy and insult him (to initially even rush to the Off Topic section of Smarkschoice which you never frequented otherwise). Yet to be still feeling magnetism to the same person now, six years on, and such hatred, is baffling. Every time I have been active here in the last five years you have rushed to the threads to castigate me; it's obsession. It's a big reason certainly; you took the posts as a huge personal insult and as such have been desperate to 'get your own back' ever since. Time and again you have proved yourself as an immature, insecure man (as if those DVDVR reviews where everyone went to great lengths to prove how drunk they got weren't proof enough of their juvenile desperation to prove to people they actually got wasted from time to time and had a life), immature enough to follow a fifteen year old troll around the internet like you have a personal vendetta that you can't let go of.

Still you didn't answer any of my questions like; - Why did you spend a month following a fifteen year old boy whose opinions you loathed around the internet? - Why did you not pursue the other people who stated my opinions equally? - Why is it only you and Bix who ever bring it up? - Which black wrestlers other than Scorpio have I unfairly criticised? - Why are you so obsessed that every time I post you rush to find out what I'm saying? - What was your reaction when the other nine or ten posts I made in the last couple of days contained no negative comments towards black wrestlers? For the record, Jay Lethal was my favourite wrestler for months in 2006. Similarly, it's OK to dislike a black wrestler without being screamed at as a racist - a concept that hasn't permeated the head of Bix especially, who throws the race card around like it's a frisbee.