Al

I don't know how far you've gotten, but one big one I missed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4OiBbEditM Muhammad Ali meets Gorilla Monsoon

Rob Van Dam last year was the best way to do it. A guy using the stipulation to get a shot at his maximum advantage. I do think they should retire the concept after this year, partly because ladder matches in general are overexposed at this point.

Like Vince is worse than having Justin Credible as your champion.

Considering ECW used Stan Hansen, Abdullah the Butcher, The Sheik, Kevin Sullivan, Terry Funk, Eddie Gilbert, the Headhunters, etc. in 1993-94, I think Bruiser Brody definately would've at least done spot shows there.

Whether you liked it or not, it was nice to see WWE break from routine and do something different. Builds for main event feuds these days have become too formulaic, IMO.

I'd love to see a wrestling newsletter or some type thing focus on the history of wrestling. That's always the most interesting thing Meltzer does and there is precious little out there.

I've been ignoring this thread so far because I've just come to accept that jdw's hatred of Brody is a bizarre point of pride for him and I already know there's no way he'll listen to anything positive I have to say about the man, his matches, his career, or his legacy. So, why waste my time? This, though... you just don't have your facts straight here, Al. If you were getting your "knowledge" from PWI, you would certainly have been aware that Brody was a star. Before the PWI 500 was an annual huge issue, they used to run a more reasonable top 50. Brody got the number one spot in either '84 or '85. In 1988, he was given the Stan Weston award, which is PWI's highest honour. They ranked him #14 overall in their list of the top singles wrestlers of the PWI years, and his tag team with Stan Hansen was ranked as the #7 team of the PWI years. The editors of PWI flat out love Bruiser Brody. If you're going to hate, fine, go ahead and hate. If you're going to use "I've read a lot of PWI" as the basis for claiming to know a lot about wrestling... well, good luck with that. If you're going to use "I've read a lot of PWI" as a basis for claiming Brody wasn't a star... well, you've just proven yourself an idiot or a liar... possibly both. You were going find until that last line. A personal attack is really unnecessary and uncalled for. The Stanley Weston award is commonly given posthumously, so there's no surprise Brody won that. The PWI 500 of the "PWI years" was assisted by Dave Meltzer, so Brody's placement there is no surprise. Beyond that, I have no personal agenda regarding Bruiser Brody. He died two years before I became a fan. All I'm saying is that outside of the "smart" fans, no one seemed to talk up Bruiser Brody to a huge degree. His premature death was a tragedy, but so were the Von Erichs, Gino Hernandez, etc. I suspect Brody's abilities as an in-ring worker are understated in this thread. However, I don't think he was a huge star in the U.S., or at least would not have been in the '90s.

I can't comment about Brody's abilities as a worker. I can tell you that until I found the internet, I was still a bit knowledgeable as a mark thanks to the PWI mags. I had no idea Brody was any kind of star.

I thought it was just basically Vince Sr. didn't like his act and never booked him. Brody had a run against Bruno Sammartino in 1976/77.

Adrian Adonis, Dick Murdoch & Lou Albano vs. The Samoans & Sgt. Slaughter September 22, 1984 The crowd perks up the moment Howard Finkel mentions "six man tag." Adrian Adonis comes out first and when Fink says "from New York" the crowd immediately starts booing in anticipation. Lou Albano looks like an utter slob. He's a cretin, annoying and a complete pain in the ass. It makes him easy to hate, a good trait for a heel manager. The pattern for this match is simple. Lou Albano will only come in to deliver a cheap shot. Adonis and Murdoch do the work and since both are good workers, the match delivers. Early in the match Murdoch attempts to elbow the Samoan Sika. When that doesn't work, he calls in Adonis for a double elbowsmash, and that doesn't work. When Murdoch runs out and tags Lou, Lou claims a bad back. Two things drive this match. One, the match works around the strengths of the participants. Murdoch/Adonis carry the load, the Samoans aren't asked to work beyond their limitations and Albano is there merely to stooge. (This is Adonis pre-weight gain, by the way.) Second, the crowd is AMPED. The story for the match is that as the match wears on, Adonis and Murdoch become exhausted carrying the load for their team. The match pace almost never wears up. One of the Samoans pins Murdoch, Adonis runs into get the save but is cut off by Slaughter, and Murdoch kicks out anyway. Albano finally comes in and gets caught in the cobra clutch. Adonis saves him. Albano runs over to tag out, but Murdoch and Adonis are both slumped in the corner. Albano runs for the locker room, Slaughter slams Murdoch off the top rope and the Samoans cut off Adonis with a double headbutt. Just a great brawl with non-stop action and a hot crowd throughout. ***1/2

Wasn't there some backstage story with Bruiser Brody and WWE?

I ordered it. First live PPV event I ordered since Rumble '99 actually. Having digital cable after years without a cable box is the main reason for the PPV hiatus.

Mine would be WWE heavy, so I am running with it and doing an all-Wrestlemania theme. Opener: Tom Zenk/Rick Martel vs. Don Muraco/Bob Orton Good, well-paced opener to get the crowd going. Curt Hennig vs. Owen Hart (Blue Blazer) Another quick, five minute match between two good workers. The Undertaker vs. Jake Roberts You need to get the Undertaker in here somewhere and this is a match that had a semi-important story behind it and features the heel getting his comeuppance. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart (Submission Match) The first "epic" match of the night. Roddy Piper vs. Adrian Adonis Following the longer match, a shorter match to pop the crowd. Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels (Ladder Match/IC Title) Wrestlemania has featured five different ladder matches. Only this one featured any real memorable storyline behind it. Whether or not it holds up or deserves five stars is immaterial. It is an exciting match. Mickie James vs. Trish Stratus (Womens Title) Following the longer, intense ladder match you have a shorter match and probably the best women's match to occur at Wrestlemania. Cactus Jack/Terry Funk vs. The New Age Outlaws (Dumpster Match/Tag Titles) This match appeals to the hardcore element, while not so violent to turn off the crowd. The Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage (Retirement Match) The post-match angle is probably the most emotional angle WWE ever ran. Gimmick Battle Royal A short three-minute match to provide one last break before the main event. A little comedy and harmless fun. Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant (Wrestlemania III) Ultimately the idea is to draw, and whether it was 78,000 or 93,000 it was a HUGE crowd. Also, the crowd will have sat through three twenty minute matches at this point, and this one allows the fans a shorter match. All together I have two hours of bell-to-bell action. Three four star matches, and most of WWE's most popular stars. If the exclusion of the Rock is troubling, a solution might be to run Rock/Hogan and add Andre/Studd from Wrestlemania I. Some matches are not classics by any means, but I think if you ran nothing but ***** star matches for three hours you would exhaust your crowd (and also lose money from the live crowd via concessions).

At what point did Kevin Dunn not know who Lance Russell was?

In fairness, Mascaras had a significant title program versus Superstar Billy Graham in 1977.

Graham's site can also be accessed via http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com. The '76 Stadium show has Sammartino/Hansen and Andre/Wepner. Andre/Wepner is no classic, but it's a famous match that inspired the Thunderlips scene in Rocky III. Sammartino/Hansen is famous for the previous match where Hansen accidently injured Sammartino's neck. Now that I think of it, Pro Wrestling Illustrated published a 40th anniversary WWE issue along with a timeline. Here's what they noted from the 70s. June 16, 1970: Manager Tony Angelo trades Ivan Koloff and the Mongols to Lou Albano for Crusher Verdu and cash (hopefully Angelo got a lot of cash). January 18, 1971: Ivan Koloff pins Bruno Sammartino for the title. February 8, 1971: Pedro Morales pins Koloff for the title. June 1971: Luke Graham and Tarzan Tyler defeat the Bruiser and the Sheik to win the vacant tag team titles. July 1, 1972: Fabulous Moolah defends womens' title against Vicki Williams at MSG, as the NYSAC lifts a ban on womens wrestling. September 30, 1972: Pedro and Bruno wrestle at Shea. December 18, 1972: Mil Mascaras makes MSG debut, first masked wrestler to compete at MSG. December 1, 1973: Stan Stasiak wins title. May 9, 1975: Bruno Sammartino battles PWF champion Giant Baba in a unification match in Tokyo. Match ends in no-contest. April 26, 1976: Match between Sammartino and Hansen is stopped due to blood. It is later revealed that Hansen broke Sammartino's neck with a lariat. (I've seen the clip, it was actually a botched bodyslam.) June 25, 1976: Shea Stadium card. April 30, 1977: Superstar Graham wins title. January 23, 1978: Tatsumi Fujinami wins WWWF Junior Heavyweight title. The title becomes a fixture in Japan and eventually joins the J-Cup. January 25, 1978: Superstar Graham battles NWA champion Harley Race at the Orange Bowl. February 20, 1978: Bob Backlund wins title. March 25, 1979: Backlund battles AWA champion Nick Bockwinkel. April 1979: WWWF becomes WWF. June 19, 1979: Pat Patterson defeats Ted DiBiase for WWF North American title. Title evolves into intercontinental title later in the year. September 1979: Patterson recognized as first IC champion. November 30, 1979: Antonio Inoki defeats Bob Backlund for WWF totle. Their matches of the year: 1970: Bruno Sammartino vs. Crusher Verdu 1971: Ivan Koloff vs. Bruno Sammartino 1972: Pedro Morales vs. Bruno Sammartino 1973: Tony Garea & Haystacks Calhoun vs. Professor Tanaka & Mr. Fuji 1974: Bruno Sammartino, Andre the Giant & Haystacks Calhoun vs. The Valients & Killer Kowalski 1975: Bruno Sammartino vs. Spiros Arion 1976: Bruno Sammartino vs. Stan Hansen 1977: Superstar Graham vs. Bruno Sammartino 1978: Bob Backlund vs. Superstar Graham 1979: Bob Backlund vs. Pat Patterson Some of those are pretty vague, Backlund/Patterson had many matches in 1979. Sammartino/Arion is worth noting, as Arion's heel turn was a big deal at the time.

I don't think most wrestling fans really give a second thought to how wrestlers are perceived as legitimate combatants. If it were really a factor, we'd see a big spike in heavyweight boxing and drop in WWE after Wrestlemania XIV. Obviously that did not happen, as WWE enjoyed their greatest business boom following that show. Wrestling has a long history of involving other athletes/celebrities on their shows. Muhammad Ali, Andy Kaufmann, "Refrigerator" Perry, Lawrence Taylor, etc. It does not hurt business because wrestling fans largely know it is staged entertainment. (The difference between "smart" and casual fans is that the casual fans is unaware of the hows and whys of working a match).

This is the one time where I really liked what Michaels did even if it wasn't professional. Tyson (and I know it's not his fault here) KOing Michaels was just embarassing and a detriment to wrestling. How so? The punch looked reasonably good, and Tyson's the kind of guy with enough credibility that he can knock someone out with one punch and it is believable. It's not like they brought in some "B" level celebrity. We're talking about the former heavyweight boxing champion.

Then you have the issue of whether "new" ECW deserves to rank as its own promotion. It's really just a "B" show.

Perhaps AWA 1990 should rank up there as well. A better question, what was the worst promotion that wasn't on its last legs?

Sgt. Slaughter vs. Iron Sheik - Boot Camp Match, MSG First, Loss's review of the match... There's not much to add here. This match rocked. Easily one of the best WWE matches I have ever seen, and I'm stunned this hasn't found it's way on some dvd release. WWE really should do a "Best of MSG" dvd of pre-1985 stuff.

I'd like access to both forums please. PM'd you. -- Loss, 01/20

It's nice to see plenty of activity so soon. I hope this site continues to pick up steam.

This is from the 1985 show from the sound of it. Yeah it's bad, but every sport has this sort of thing. The NFL had that Chicago Bears' song about the same time. And lord knows baseball's had tons of bad theme songs.

Yeah, Andrews is simply the best surgeon in the business in dealing with sports injuries. Any time any athlete needs something along the lines of Tommy John surgery or the like, they see Andrews.