Loss

A precursor to the Mr. McMahon stuff. Vince does an amazing heel promo. He hypes the cage match against Bret Hart at Mid South Coliseum, which oddly enough took place the night before Summerslam.

Vince McMahon and Pat Patterson are at ringside. Lawler is chasing Paul Neighbors when Vince trips him! Lawler goes to confront him and Patterson gets in his face. This ends with Pat holding Lawler while Vince slugs him! This is all during a match against referee Paul Neighbors, where he gives him five piledrivers to win a stretcher match. Still wild seeing Vince in this setting.

Chaotic main event on a great show. Jake Roberts and DDP doubleteaming Espectrito is amusing. So is Jake throwing a drink in Antonio Pena's face. Beyond that, I don't really get Konnan and this is overbooked like crazy.

Having trouble watching this disc due to some problems with my laptop I think, but I remember this being awesome. Will come back later.

This is the best of the Rey/Psicosis trios matches of '93 for me. The edition of Misterioso and Volador specifically adds a lot to the match, because both guys have so many terrific spots and they gel well with everyone else. Psicosis and Estrada are a riot playing off of each other, and this match is ripe with heel miscommunication. Excellent match that deserves a full walk-through at some point.

So because the Steiners were more pushed and shot on their opponents, they are better? Because the Steiners wrestled on a bigger stage, they were better? Because other people like the Hase/Sasaki match (which I also like just fine, but we criticize people like Dave for defending matches by saying other people liked it), they are better? Not seeing it. Also: Am I to read this that because the Steiners would win a wrestling match, they are a better team?

Yes! Have you seen the tag title change against the Steiners from late '89? Garvin wears his "I'm jobbing" face to the ring, goes through the motions and doesn't really feel like selling for the Steiners. Rick stiffs him a few times and Hayes totally carries the match. I don't normally notice things like that, but it's really hard to not notice in that match.

I cannot name a single great match from the Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs or Demolition.

I think in any case, the baseline for "who's better?" arguments should be a comparison of the best efforts, not a comparison of the worst efforts. I don't know anything about PG-13 post-90s so I'll defer to Jingus on that, but it's no more relevant to me than Jumbo's post-hepatitis matches or Flair in the 00s matches are in a GOAT argument.

He seems to have gotten some of the love back over time, but the first guy I thought of was post-1986 Yoshiaki Yatsu.

Quality contribution here At work here so I can't get into it further but I'll leave a post later breaking down my opinions of them and the teams they are being compared to. One team being forgotten is Los Gringos, interested to hear others' take on them before I post later. Yes, it will be interesting, since the "body of work" argument is being used against PG-13, and I'm guessing most of the people in this thread have never seen a Los Gringos Locos match except When Worlds Collide.

Yeah, I have definitely realized watching Tough Enough how awesome Steve Austin is on camera. Not that it really needed to be reinforced, but Rock is the guy people usually talk about more with the superstar presence and charisma.

Loss, in every case looking for singles matches. I named one for everyone except Darsow and Masked Superstar.

To put the 2/17 match in perspective, when I ranked everything for '96, it fell in the top 100. That may not seem like huge praise, but consider that I had it above matches that people generally like (and that I like), matches like Liger/Togo at the Skydiving J and Austin/Mero at King of the Ring. In '96, I'd also easily call Wolfie D the best babyface in wrestling. The whole story of PG-13 as babyfaces forced to split, then feuding, then re-uniting as heels takes place over the course of the entire year and is one for the ages.

Couple of PG-13 matches from the '96 yearbook that I'd highly recommend. They are babyfaces in both of these matches. From USWA TV 01/20/96: PG-13 vs Tracy Smothers & Jesse James Armstrong Unless something else on this set tops it, this is the best thing Road Dogg has ever been part of in his life! Tremendous old school tag match that goes to a time-limit draw. It's built around destroying Jamie Dundee's knee, with Smothers and Armstrong doing all sorts of nasty things and working really stiff. The post-match brawl has almost every heel in the promotion ganging up on PG-13 and Smothers gets in some brutal flagpole shots on Dundee's knee. Very good match, great segment. From USWA TV 02/17/96: PG-13 vs Tracy Smothers & Jesse James Armstrong So this is Brandon Baxter? He wears a tuxedo without a shirt and has hair like a member of the one-hit wonder group of the early 90s Nelson. Awesome! Outstanding match! It's like they were playing on every cliched Southern tag finish you can think of and then not ending the match that way. There were at least five times I was sure this was the finish, and the match kept going. Going through them all would give away too much of the element of surprise in watching this for yourself, but this was great! Jesse James Armstrong is the lesser guy of everyone involved in this match, but who knew ROAD DOGG had the ability to stick to a role and be a perfectly acceptable heel in a series of really strong Southern tags. Speaking of Road Dogg, after the match, Brandon Baxter tears into him for losing the match, saying he doesn't associate with losers, and Smothers ends up attacking him from behind and getting a check from Baxter for his deed. I love Memphis. In spite of the world changing around them, they stay consistent and are still very Memphis in everything they do. I'd be tempted to call it staying true to their principles if it wasn't a territory run by such slimeballs.

It's been touched on at times, but Sting was not a hand-picked star after he ended up with Crockett post-Watts buyout. He caught fire, and the Clash showing against Flair made him a star, but Luger was the guy they were grooming at that point to carry the company.

Ole Anderson has had many, many good matches. Tag matches against the Rock & Rolls at Starrcade and during the Bash tour, clipped footage of Andersons vs Flair/Valentine, the Magnum match from TBS, the elimination match from World Pro Weekly and tons more. Can't name any specific matches but Bill Eadie as Masked Superstar was pretty respected and probably has some good stuff. Barry Darsow was in some good matches, particularly an outstanding tag against the Rock & Rolls, who won the tag titles either in their NWA debut or one of their first matches. Virgil is said to have had a Terry Funk match on an indy that's even better than the DiBiase match. Test was pretty decent in 2001-2002. Had plenty of good TV matches and I really, really like Survivor Series against Edge.

He has already ranked a few teams over PG-13. New rule: If you name a team, you have to name at least five matches of theirs you like. ETA: I mean that facetiously. But naming at least one would be nice. It's become a list of random teams for the sake of it, with no explanation from the people advocating for them of why they like them so much.

They aren't really all gaga though. The Whipwreck/Spike tag that aired clipped on ECW TV is a good example of this. The headscissors into the turnbuckle pad is an AWESOME spot that I wish someone would steal. There was tons of good action in that match, and that's just what we saw of it. Not putting you in this category, but I always find it interesting when people complain about stalling and gaga in places like Memphis, yet enjoy the Michinoku Pro schtick that originated from the same place. In fact, if you look at early MPro, they are doing a lot of Memphis comedy spots in the process of developing the style, like the back-turned arm wringer that is guaranteed to end in accidentally giving your own partner an arm wringer.

It's great that everyone is listing tag teams, but it really doesn't make for a useful discussion unless there is a mention of why next to each team.

Responding to this from the other thread. They worked the USWA and SMW. Not sure how you can criticize someone for not giving the impression of a major league tag team when they don't work major leagues. I guess they had a cup of coffee in WCW and the WWF, but I'm sure no one is really factoring that into this discussion. As heels, the whole point of PG-13 was that they were undersized and scrawny. Big mouthed guys who thought they were much bigger than they were. As babyfaces, they were underdogs because of their size. They got over as babyfaces in the same way small guys have always gotten over as babyfaces. I never had a problem buying PG-13 being able to kick someone's ass, primarily because they seemed like the type of guys that would do just about anything to win. (This is another discussion, but I've always seen wrestling as more about outskilling someone than kicking their ass.) They were resourceful.

I'm glad to see PG-13 being discussed, hyperbole or not (and I don't think it is). I'll skim some things I've posted in the yearbook folder that I think add to their case when I get a chance. As far as the quality of their signature spots, there aren't too many U.S. teams I'd rank higher. Sadly, one problem they face is that despite being a 90s team, there isn't a ton of footage. Lots of clipped matches where you get an idea of how great they were, and a few complete ones that back up that case well. How did teams like Misawa/Kobashi even enter the discussion? Wasn't the whole point U.S. teams?

Perhaps not, but I always felt it wouldn't be terribly out of character for Vince to respect someone who managed to get his daughter in the sack without his knowledge.

So ... the Kharma defenders on Twitter seem to be getting under Jim Ross's skin. He claims it was "fictional" that he told her she was too fat to be in WWE during Tough Enough tryouts. Anyone know more about this?

Can I just say how much I hated them winning matches by Debra flirting with the babyfaces? Occasionally would have been fine, but every single match every single week had either the same finish, or a close variation of it.