Loss
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Everything posted by Loss
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Go to the 'Options' button at the top of the thread on the right-hand side and change the view. That should fix it.
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I think this was worth me starting the topic.
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I've made a few changes to the board, as it feels like it needs a little freshening up: #1 - I've merged some of the folders that don't get as much activity into the main Pro Wrestling folder, which is no longer called Big Egg Universe by the way. #2 - I'm going to start heavily moderating "Comments that don't warrant a thread". If you have something to say, I kindly request that you just start a thread. I don't want to say don't use that thread at all, but think about something before you post it. If it's a topic that warrants a long discussion, just start a thread. We don't have so much traffic that posts are going to get lost. I do this too, so I'm not in any way criticizing anyone. I also want to open this topic for discussion. There is a perception, right or wrong, that PWO is overly negative and focuses too much on the ugly side of wrestling. We post too much about Benoit, we're too critical of Dave and Bryan, we don't seem like fans, etc. Personally, I think this is bullshit. Yes, this board has tons of Meltzer criticism, but this board also has tons of Meltzer praise. I would say there is probably more praise about Meltzer on this board than just about any wrestling board out there. Who else is recapping issues of the Observer from 20+ years ago? That suggests a certain respect for him. In truth, the Observer just happens to be discussed here quite a bit, maybe overly so. Dave is a great journalist at his best, and most people here have defended him when warranted. But at the same time, because he can be so good, he does get criticized when he falls short. Anyway, the perceived negativity is one reason I've gotten rid of some of the subfolders. I think the over-compartmentalizing has made people think that this board is all about complaining about Observer columnists and the F4W board, so the insane amount of match reviews, merchandise discussions, old newsletter recaps, etc. don't get seen because they are farther down the page. So now it's all in one place. I know this is a place full of people that love pro wrestling. I also think this board, like many, is full of people who had some conflicts about their fandom when Chris Benoit killed his family. We're hardly unique in that regard. So in short, I don't want this to necessarily be a big STATE OF THE BOARD discussion, but I do want to welcome anyone who has anything positive or negative about the content on this board to feel free to discuss it here.
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I have always wondered this. Going by peoples public ballots it is an apples and oranges debate between Cena (appearing on TV 54 weeks and 14 PPVs approx. per year) vs Brock (appearing on 2-3 PPVs per year). I understand the debate. It's not a new argument, as people used to also compare people like Takada and Hogan and make this point. But this is really more a philosophical point about the best way to make a draw. The person who objectively generated the most dollars for his promotion is the best box office draw. It's not a matter of opinion. Every other category is, of course.
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I have always wondered this.
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Not a good match obviously, but there are little details that Jake does really well. This was a slaughter to get Austin over strong and it worked. Austin does the promo after the match that made him a star, saying the Austin 3:16 line for the first time, although I also got a kick out of him telling Jake to go try to buy a cheap bottle of Thunderbird and reclaim the courage he had in his prime. Austin was obviously on the rise at this point.
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Kind of an off promo for Pillman from what he had been doing throughout the year, as he seemed unsure what to say, but Jim Ross just stood there holding the mic as if Pillman should keep talking. The Jeffrey Dahmer line is a good one, but that's about it.
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We see the last few minutes, with Goldust trying mouth to mouth on Ahmed after a sleeper: Owen: "He should pin him first, and ... uh ... then blow mouth to mouth into him." Ahmed wins the IC title and seemed to be someone who might get over big at the time.
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Wow, did they push Mankind as a scary guy. Good Lord. We get the last few minutes of this match with Mankind getting a clean pin over Undertaker in their first meeting. I really love the post-match piano music he was using at this point, by the way.
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Thanks John, that explanation makes sense. Great post. It must have flown under my radar. I know SC did a new Joshi poll, but I remember Toyota finishing pretty highly. For a while, I thought I was being a little unfair toward her just because the shrieking during her matches drove me insane. I think I also went through phases where I decided the problem was that I just preferred the 80s AJW style to the 90s style. Toyota has been part of some outstanding matches. I love her singles matches against Hokuto in '90 and '93, along with the Big Egg Universe match against Kong. And the Dream Rush tag is in my opinion the best match of all time. But in spite of that, I wouldn't consider myself a Toyota fan at all. I tend to like matches where she's involved, even when she brings certain strengths, despite her, not because of her. What I would hope doesn't happen is that because of all the Toyota hype, someone decides to start just by watching her matches, then writes off the entire style based on her and decides all Joshi must be like that. Because it's definitely not. And I really have a much easier time getting into JWP during this time frame. I don't know if the Joshi decline and her ascension to the top happening at the same time are just coincidence or if they're related. I tend to think it's more coincidence than anything, but it's worth pointing out. -
Tremendous match. It had been a while since I saw this so I wasn't sure how it would look now. I love Austin during this time period because he's doing all this really basic 70s style matwork that no one was doing, which seemed fresh because it had been dormant so long. I really love his wrestling style because he focuses on just doing really basic, no frills wrestling really well. Mero is tremendous here too, pulling out some nice highspots. They give this match plenty of time to develop and it gets really heated toward the end. This should be talked about more.
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Well-booked feud for the ECW audience but not my thing. That said, they do a good job of putting over the brutality of the match with the post-match stretcher job.
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The pop Gordy gets for his surprise appearance is pretty awesome. This match is smoke and mirrors, as is typical for a Raven match, but not in the same way as a usual Raven match. It's really well laid out and all the interference spots are done very well. Gordy wasn't the same by this point, but you wouldn't know it from seeing this match, as he gets to stay on offense and throw bombs. We get some Tyler Fullington/Peaches stuff after the match, with Beulah trying to call out Peaches.
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I could have done without the Douglas stuff, but otherwise, this is a really good match with a well-played power/speed dynamic. There are some spots that look indy-tacular, specifically with stuff like Pit Bull #2 moving back the guardrail when standing outside the ring to telegraph Jericho's dive, and a few other spots that are too contrived. But this is still a solid effort and has some real bright spots. Both guys look like future stars here, which is halfway correct I suppose.
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This is funny! Lawler tells Cyberpunk Fire he's so stupid that he once sold his car for gas money. Lawler is furious and says Dundee happens to have many friends that are willing to avenge him and brings out ... American Eagle! Bill Dundee is now under a mask! Randy Hales come out and says he's sick of this and says if they'll both unmask, they can have a match at Mid South Coliseum with no ref, so they do and end up brawling all over the studio and have to be pulled apart. Fun chaos!
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Toyota had a ridiculous blown spot in the really short first fall, attempting a springboard dive from the top rope to the floor and completely losing her balance and landing on her back on the apron. The crowd laughs and the others seem unsure what to do for a second. Shimoda is fine for most of this, but at times she wrestles too fast to really connect with anything she tries to hit. I am really interested in having a conversation about why it is Toyota is so loved by Joshi fans. Off the top of my head, these are all people I'd rather watch: * Aja Kong * Akira Hokuto * Bull Nakano * Chigusa Nagayo * Devil Masami * Dump Matsumoto * Dynamite Kansai * Itsuki Yamazaki * Jaguar Yokota * Kyoko Inoue * Leilani Kai * Lioness Asuka * Mariko Yoshida * Mayumi Ozaki * Megumi Kudo * Meiko Satomura * Noriyo Tateno * Reiko Amano * Sakie Hasegawa * Takako Inoue Toyota's career output is probably much higher than many of the names I listed, but as an individual performer, I'd rather watch anyone else listed here because they are much easier to tolerate even if they don't peak as high. I understand with what Dave Meltzer likes why he likes her, as she's a pretty extreme version of his tastes, but I'm surprised more people haven't torn into Toyota. I know she's gotten some criticism, but not as much as you'd think. Maybe it's because Joshi fans are a subculture of a subculture of a subculture, so there just aren't very many people who care. In fairness, this match is a bit easier to take in than most of the other Toyota matches, simply because the Inoues control most of it and the pacing makes more sense. Later in the match, Toyota tries the spot a second time and slips again. She tries it a third time and finally barely hits it. All the while, Shimoda looks like a fool trying to hold the other two there to catch her.
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Raven starts off yelling at Stevie Richards, who is wearing an airbrushed "(Heart) Flock of Seagulls" middrift. Raven asked Stevie Richards to find the sleaziest, sluttiest woman he possibly could. Stevie produced Divine Brown, the prostitute who "performed carnal knowledge" as Raven says on Hugh Grant in a car on Sunset Blvd. Raven says she wasn't sluttiest enough, and Stevie is excited to show Raven something ... Bluedust! "'Raven, Mr. Champion, welcome to my playground. Won't you slide down my pole?' -- Ron Jeremy, The Vacuum Cleaner Salesman, 1978" Raven immediately says Bluedust isn't feminine enough. Stevie, exasperated: "Told you it wouldn't work, Meanie." Funny, and more than a little disturbing, as Meanie is completely naked and covered in blue body paint. Also, Paul Varelans makes a cameo and Stevie Richards and The Blue Meanie have a water fight. Sandman drinks a beer for Dick Murdoch. Even Paul E. shows up briefly.
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Gene Okerlund announces that the main event will be Sting/Luger/Savage vs Hall/Nash/mystery partner for Bash at the Beach. He explains that in order to pick the wrestlers who would face the three outsiders, they drew three names from the top six WCW wrestlers. Funny to hear Hogan get booed very loudly. I can't overstate this enough. This really seemed like a time period when Hogan's usefulness in wrestling was done and WCW seemed fine moving on without him. Interesting what would end up happening.
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This was awesome. Not really a great match, but a fun brawl with Savage pouring food and champagne all over Flair. Before the match, Savage chases Heenan to the ring and Heenan takes a self-propelled throw over the top rope and runs for his life. That little stretch was actually pretty athletic. Mongo hits Savage with the briefcase to help Flair get the win. It was obvious they were trying to wrap up any distractions in the main event scene to put the focus on Hall and Nash. This was really the conclusion of the Flair/Savage program, despite a few other one-off matches, and Luger and Sting were now fully cooperating babyfaces. They also seemed to be getting the Horsemen strong with the possibility of doing Horsemen vs NWO stuff a few months down the line. Good time period for WCW.
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Brian Pillman does a press conference announcing his arrival to the WWF. He actually plays it calm and is nearly in tears, considering the direction his life has taken. I expect him to snap at a moment's notice, but it doesn't happen ... yet.
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These two work hard and have a good match to set up the King of the Ring semifinals, but the crowd couldn't care any less and nothing has any heat at all. Austin rocks on commentary and is one of the better wrestlers at doing that. "I'm sure Marc Mero is a credit to the human race, but personally, I can't stand him."
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Vince McMahon does a 17 second spot offering condolences to the family of Dick Murdoch while they show a couple of clips of him in the WWF. They appear to be from the match with Adonis vs The Wild Samoans from MSG. They acknowledge him as a former tag champ.
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Not really that much of a standout match, and more significant for all the title holders throwing all their belts in the ring to set up the J-Crown in August. Not at all a bad match, but historically significant more than anything.
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This is super fun. Liger is just so MEAN in this match, toying with Togo the whole time just because he can and doing a lot of showoff stuff. At one point, Togo goes to the top and Liger knocks him to the floor with an open-handed slap and then does the Superstar Graham pose in the ring while acting like he's on a rotating podium. At another point he powerbombs Togo on the floor then does a Fargo strut. I think I overrated this back on my old match list, but it's still worth seeing. It's not as much a great match as it is an awesome Liger performance that's very entertaining.
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This has lost something for me over time. Nice match, but not my favorite match on the show, even though it's usually the one that gets the most play. Notice that most of the big highspots don't connect, even if they look really nice. Both guys are better in the Michinoku Pro setting than the New Japan setting.