Loss

It's not something that's really surface level to appreciate about him, because there's so much other great stuff, but Hashimoto is second to none at working a crowd. His sense of timing is really good, and he really understands how to build to a moment and get a huge pop, sometimes for not even doing anything super impressive. He's smart. I'm not really a fan of Tenzan here, and this is not a great match, but Hashimoto is really great in it. It's easy to just mark for the stiff execution, but between his selling and ability to lay out a match, he's really a complete wrestler, and one of the best ever. The finish was a major upset that genuinely surprised me, and I love the announcer reaction.

This is definitely a match wrestled for the JIP nature of New Japan TV, as almost nothing of substance really happens for the first 10 minutes of the match, then they crank it up big time for the last five minutes. Even then, the heat is not good at first because they killed too much time early on doing nothing. Good toward the end, but disappointing, and a match that probably looked better when it aired on TV than it really was.

There's some interesting HHH talk that probably factors into flipping opinions. There was a popular line of thinking everyone would say in 2000, namely that no one thought HHH would be any good as champion and he surprised everyone. But I don't recall any real criticism of him from August-December 1999. In fact, I don't recall much criticism of anything WWF-related during 1999 online at all, as it seems WCW's sharp decline was what people preferred to talk about. What was the WON line on HHH early on?

Nothing new, obviously, but I don't think the fact that the company has writers that no one has ever heard of ever stops being annoying.

I've always had trouble with the HHH one too. There are plenty of things worth criticizing HHH over that are much more straightforward than this. I can think of co-workers that I don't like and that maybe I would resent if they got promoted for a job over me, but that doesn't mean I would take joy in them being dead.

Jesse didn't really jump. He was gone for over a year before showing up in WCW.

Is a tribute show really the place to attempt to put yourself over with the hardcore fans and the boys in the back? Should they have beaten Benoit and Rey? Of course not, and the criticism would have been pretty bad. Should they have stayed off the show? Of course not, because then the criticism would be that they were being disrespectful. What were they supposed to do?

Is there something inherently wrong with them doing so? Although, I have to admit that Shawn getting his win back at the RAW vs Smackdown match at Survivor Series a few weeks later was the near-height of petty for me.

Prostituting himself ? What ? The Mero household made shitload of money being on the road and working *together*, and probably having a blast doing so. I don't see how he embarrassed himself, it was just business. I hated Sable as much as the next guy, but the Marvelous Marc interactions were actually fun. He is not saying his opinion, he is saying how Austin and Foley probably saw it.

Generic BA argument: "YOU are arguing that YOU are absolutely right and that everyone else is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. YOU are presenting your OPINIONS as FACTS."

Not well. Lots of ALL CAPS responses, misrepresenting your original point (even when quoting it directly), and lots of "If you don't , then I don't know what to tell you." The best indication of what a Vince/Bryan debate would be like is probably in the F4W where he recapped Vince's appearance on Today being interviewed by Meredith Viera post-Benoit. Vince had the "Here is where you make your money" line (framing his face), saying it was an old adage in wrestling, and Bryan responded that it was so old that "I HAVE NEVER HEARD IT." I remember thinking this was a misrepresenting of Vince's point. Even if you've never heard that exact phrase, you've never heard that facial expressions in wrestling are important in getting over? Come on.

I don't understand why it matters who would win in a debate. Again, how did this come up, and what does it have to do with anything at all?

Mero, Austin and Foley all entered the company around the same time. Mero was the one pegged to be the star, which considering how far Austin's stock had fallen in the last year he was in WCW and how Foley had been off of national TV for so long, is an understandable viewpoint. Hindsight tells us way more of course. I'm not saying Mero is above criticism, or that any points made about him aren't valid. For all I know, he was an aloof asshole and people are right on the money about him. I just suspect, maybe incorrectly so, that he's not hated on the merits.

What do you mean ? Meaning Sable was a bigger star than him, and typically, midcarders who date hot females get big heat in WWE.

I don't remember people criticizing Maekawa for being dangerous. The criticism is that her stuff was meaningless. There is a difference between Flairs first chop exchange and first stiff chop exchange. Between Aja's first back fist and first big back fist. Same true for Hotta. Maekawa had about four or five really cool stiff kick spots and she'd throw them out a million times in a match. There was no difference between the first time she threw a kick combination and the last time. Part of this could be blamed on the way Nakanishi and her other AJW opponents sold and some of this was the problem of the length of the matches exposing her ( I mean HHH is also a guy with about 8 minutes of interesting time filling ideas who is exposed in matches that go over 11 minutes). That reminds me that I never saw those Maekawa/Nakanishi matches in 2001 that people loved at the time.

Marc Mero had the nerve to suggest that maybe wrestling needs to clean its act up post-Benoit. He also fucked above his push. I suspect that whatever other gripes are made, legit point or not, that's the underlying problem people have with Mero.

I'm in a hurry at the moment, but I'll definitely split this off next time I sign on. In the meantime, feel free to get in depth. I'll move everything later.

Why did this even come up? Seems like such an odd topic.

Seriously, Edge is a terrible wrestler. Usually, in cases like Michaels or Angle or whoever, you can at least see where Dave is coming from because there are things those guys do well. But Edge? Overuses a spear that doesn't even look that good, has the types of facial expressions that are so exaggerated that they are embarrassing around non-fans, not really good at selling a beatdown ... that doesn't even get into his promos. Edge is probably the very worst promo guy who is considered good. He's had a few good matches against the right people -- but even then, it's just been a few.

The first Billionaire Ted skit making fun of the limited moveset of Hogan and Savage while showing clips of three different guys all doing a powerbomb variation.

New Japan had transitioned plenty of juniors into heavyweights over the years. Is there a reason you think they never gave this a serious go with Liger? Did Liger have potential to draw on top?

I'm not sure if he falls into this category or not, but Michael Hayes was always one of the most mislabeled guys out there. He could go. I'm baffled that Watts wanted to keep him out of the ring because he thought he was no good. He wasn't Gordy or Roberts, but he was perfectly capable of having a good match. He fizzled out at a young age, but even post-peak, there are some good matches. I love the Luger match at Wrestle War '89 and the title change to the Steiners on Saturday Night later in the year, which is Hayes holding together a match pretty much on his own. Part of his appeal was that he didn't do a lot, but he got so much mileage out of everything he did do.

Jake Roberts in WCW was tremendous. Randy Savage in Memphis. Stan Hansen in All Japan. Brian Pillman in ECW.

Definite MOTYC. What makes this great and what makes it standout from other juniors matches of the year is the little stuff they do between the moves. This had the feel of two guys who had their opponents well-scouted because of the quick counters and side steps when certain moves are teased. The crowd is also super hot.