Loss

I'm hoping someone can answer this for me. Am I crazy, or have I read somewhere that there were plans to put the IWGP title on Liger in 2000? Was he briefly pushed as a heavyweight? Did something happen to kill that? I'd love to hear this story if anyone has more info.

I'm not sure what else there is to say about these matches, except for that I understand why it stood out as a feud considering what else was going on in wrestling at the time, and I may have already said that even.

Not a match I expected to like as much as I did, as pre-WWF Jericho usually doesn't look so good. But this match was really strong. They were making a conscious effort to be different, doing lots of matwork and offense you don't see every day. Sometimes, it looked great, sometimes it didn't, but A for effort. These two worked well enough together that this might have been a great feud had they had a series.

Another one. Hogan seems to have loosened up just a tad on the wrestling promo voice, which is too bad, but these guys are still obviously having fun.

Clips of Doug Gilbert punching Tommy Rich in the face after a match where he has to take 10 lashes from Tony Falk. Jeff Jarrett and Brian Christopher end up involved on opposing sides, and when all is said and done, Gilbert takes a piledriver through a table from Rich.

Really awesome. Jamie Dundee brings out everything he had in house that Wolfie D owns and says he's going to burn it. For some reason, amongst the stuff is stolen hubcaps. Lance Russell: "He oughta get you for stealing his property." Russell makes him go outside if he's going to be starting a fire, and Wolfie runs out and attacks him in the parking lot. They brawl around for a minute before Bill helps his son, and soon father and son are beating up Wolfie in the parking lot until THE ROCK and Bart Sawyer make the save. Just awesome in every way.

Nice little match between two guys whose styles complement each other well.

This made me laugh.

I have tried really hard to table my purist snob instincts when watching this stuff, but Sabu matches not against Scorpio have really been a chore for me. This match is not terrible, it deserved a spot on the yearbook, they both work hard, yadda yadda yadda ... but I just don't like it. I'd much rather see Sabu be reckless and just do spots than try to mat wrestle, which he does here. He doesn't do it well enough to make it worth watching. Even with the sloppiness, I can understand his appeal because he's such a daredevil, but this is really just not my thing. Indy-tastic in a year without a lot of indy-tastic stuff.

You know, I'm really looking forward to re-watching this based on your comments, as when I watched it when we were preparing the yearbooks, I loved it, and thought it felt like a slightly overlooked, low-end U.S. MOTYC. The booking is really good, but more than that, I like the underlying NWO vs NWA premise here. There are moments like Flair's offensive flurry against Hogan, Hall and Nash, Luger and Arn ganging up on Hogan, etc., that are tremendous. If anything hurts this match, it's that Flair, Luger and Arn totally carry it, Flair and Luger especially. Flair does all of the Ric Flair tricks while in babyface mode, which works great in front of a North Carolina crowd. Luger's selling is pretty awesome throughout this, and his instincts are good, as far as knowing when to let the heels take over and when to come back. Luger worked really hard in the ring in '96. Matches where the heels are being led usually aren't quite as good. But Hogan outworks Hall and Nash because he at least doesn't lean on the angle for all of his heat, while Hall and Nash just kinda show up. I know this seems like a strange complaint in retrospect, considering how hard the NWO was pushed, but when I've rewatched old NWO stuff recently, it feels like Nash isn't able to convey being a threat in his matches the same way he is on promos and in post-match beatdowns. You see this huge guy with hair flying around every time he throws a punch looking menacing, and you think he could at least translate that presence to his matches, even if he's not that mobile. But it's just not there. Nash's charisma seems to vanish bell-to-bell in WCW, I guess because how do you present sarcasm as an in-ring quality for a top-level heel at that size? Right when he left the WWF, Diesel seemed like a killer if you look at the Michaels and Taker matches, but he lost that from his in-ring when he moved to WCW. Hall was always overrated. Unless he was working his friends, there's not really anything that stands out. That said, he was the best go-the-distance choice here because it wasn't going to be Nash, and Hogan was the big star and didn't need to be the first entrant. Anyway, I'll step out until I get to this match on my set, then I'll comment again.

My understanding is that Gene and Vince always had a bit of a love-hate relationship, with Gene getting in shouting matches with Vince and quitting every so often, only to finally come back.

Wow. What an emotional match, and I love the finish. Hashimoto was incredible here, really getting Choshu over strong. I love the dynamic, like El-P said, of the old veteran wanting to show that he still has a little fight in him, and reaching down deep to pull it off. This isn't head and shoulders above Muto/Yamazaki and Chono/Kojima as a match, but the heat, drama and emotion takes it to another level.

Yamazaki is awesome! I love the early matwork. Yamazaki is outclassing Muto every step of the way, so Muto steps on his hand to get away. Lots of restarts and standoffs, which I usually hate, but the matwork is so strong that it really doesn't matter. The leg work and figure four set up is brief, but really nice done, and played well for drama with all the attempts to turn it over that didn't work. Yamazaki winning has to be a bit of an upset. Muto kind of no-sells the finish, which takes away from this, and this is a bit of an up-and-down match, but there are flashes of brilliance here. It doesn't get to the next level because it doesn't sustain, but I still really enjoyed this match.

Masa Chono sounds like a goat when he breathes here. It's kinda weird, and persistent. At least I think it's him. It's distracting. That's a shame, because this is a fun match. I wouldn't have minded seeing it go longer, but it was paced well and the crowd was really hot for all the offense. Wrestlers who make strange noises when they wrestle take me out of the moment, though. Never fails.

Aside from a couple of big highspots, this was really basic, snug, mat-based match, and reminded me of Mid South. FMW continues to be something that I really like on this set, and something I can see myself getting into more. I guess I'm semi-surprised that there was actual good wrestling at times alongside the brawling, or sometimes even mixed in with the brawling. I want to make a Steve Williams/Buzz Sawyer comparison, as this match reminded me of that one on the DVDVR set, but I don't remember that match standing out to most people for whatever reason, so instead I'll compare it to Murdoch/DiBiase (something I'm not a huge fan of, but a match where most people will get my point) with a few bigger highspots.

The Dustin megapush is one of the most ridiculous WON ... err, I have to use the dreaded words ... TALKING POINTS of the era. Dusty booked steadily from 1991-1993. During that time, Dustin was pushed exactly as he should have been: an upper midcarder who won more than he lost. He never had a world title match on TV, and when he wrestled a top heel like Rick Rude or Vader, he was competitive, but lost in the end. I always got the impression Pillman hated Dusty and buried Dustin to Dave, as he felt he was missing out on a big push because of Dustin.

Not to mention I have read a few things from you over the years that were complimentary toward Michaels. Granted, most of it was in regards to older stuff, but when I think of the biggest Michaels haters out there, I don't automatically put you in that category.

Well, had some of the natural rivalries for Shawn stuck around (Diesel, Razor, Bret), his whole run probably would have been different. Not to mention that Michaels/Savage probably would have worked really well. And that may have been Hogan floating rumors to drive up his bargaining power. I can't see Vince matching his 25% of PPV gates deal, much less surpassing it, giving him more of a base salary than he had in WCW, *and* adding in full creative control, which is what it would have taken for Hogan to even consider jumping. And in a bidding war, something tells me Bischoff would have paid any price necessary and promised anything he had to if it meant not doing so would leave them without Hogan. The Hogan rumors started up again in early '98 and were a lot more prevalent. Hogan jumping in '98 when the WWF landscape was wildly different than it was in '96 would have had Hogan with far less leverage, as WCW was stronger than they were two years earlier, as was the WWF. Not to mention that Austin (and to a lesser degree, Shawn) were red hot, and he wouldn't have been the guaranteed top star. He probably knew that, which is why he stayed put.

I would think a rehash. Hogan wasn't mentally ready to turn at that point, and Vince is definitely a fan of formula booking. Hogan/Warrior and Shawn/Sid, for example, had almost the exact same build-up, and there was six years between those matches. I always thought a really interesting set of questions was that if Vince managed to get Hogan and/or Savage back in 1996-1997 (and according to the rumor mill, there were attempts made): (1) Would they be brought in as heels or in their old gimmicks? (2) How do they reconcile the Billionaire Ted skits? And yeah, dark side Hogan was really the final straw for WCW fans cheering him as a babyface, especially when he criticized Sting and Savage. The Sting/Hogan match on Nitro (Can you believe they put their first-ever match on Nitro?) had Sting getting overwhelming fan support. A few weeks later, Hogan/Sting vs Flair/Arn in Charlotte had fans ripping up Hogan merchandise on camera, and Hogan getting crazy heel heat.

It's really not fair to assume that everyone who posts "on this board" has the same opinion on everything. That's an issue I have with your posts sometimes. We're not of a singular mind. There are plenty of people here who get along, and some who don't. There are plenty of people here who agree more than they disagree, and vice versa. One person posting one opinion (or 2-3 agreeing with it on a board with a few dozen regulars) isn't reflective of the entire board. I personally think it's silly that Bryan is doing it, and I also think it's kind of ass backwards that he wants to moderate a forum on this topic, but not moderate a wrestling message board where Dave Meltzer posts. But that's my opinion, not "this board's" opinion. If you want to argue the merits, feel free, but there's no need to paint everyone with the same brush.

Overall list so far, including July: #1 - Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyota (FMW 05/05/96) #2 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 07/09/96) #3 - El Hijo del Santo & Atlantis & El Dandy & Lizmark vs Blue Panther & Felino & Dr Wagner Jr & Negro Casas (CMLL 03/15/96) #4 - Shinjiro Otani vs El Samurai (NJPW 01/21/96) #5 - Wild Pegasus vs Black Tiger (NJPW 06/11/96) #6 - Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue (AJPW 07/24/96) #7 - Rey Misterio Jr & Ultimo Dragon vs Heavy Metal & Psicosis (World Wrestling Peace Festival 06/01/96) #8 - Dynamite Kansai & Kanako Motoya vs Mayumi Ozaki & Reiko Amano (JWP 06/16/96) #9 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Steve Williams & Johnny Ace (AJPW 06/07/96) #10 - Mayumi Ozaki vs Takako Inoue (JWP 05/18/96) #11 - Steve Williams vs Akira Taue (AJPW 04/20/96) #12 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 05/23/96) #13 - Genichiro Tenryu vs Yoji Anjo (WAR 07/21/96) #14 - Toshiaki Kawada vs Akira Taue (AJPW 03/31/96) #15 - Nobuhiko Takada & Masahito Kakihara vs Tatsumi Fujinami & Yoshiaki Fujiwara (UWFI 06/26/96) #16 - El Hijo del Santo & El Dandy & Dos Caras vs Blue Panther & Apolo Dantes & Emilio Charles Jr (CMLL 02/16/96) #17 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs Toshiaki Kawada & Johnny Ace & Gary Albright (AJPW 04/20/96) #18 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 03/31/96) #19 - Great Sasuke & Tiger Mask IV & Shiryu vs Taka Michinoku & Super Delphin & Gran Naniwa (Michinoku Pro 03/16/96) #20 - Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 05/24/96) #21 - Dynamite Kansai & Takako Inoue vs Mayumi Ozaki & Kyoko Inoue (JWP 04/20/96) #22 - Rey Misterio Jr vs Dean Malenko (WCW Great American Bash 06/16/96) #23 - Black Tiger & El Samurai & Gran Hamada vs Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto & Dean Malenko (NJPW 02/25/96) #24 - Rey Misterio Jr vs Juventud Guerrera (AAA 07/15/96) #25 - Shane Douglas vs 2 Cold Scorpio (ECW Matter of Respect 05/11/96) #26 - Yoshihisa Yamamoto vs Buzariashville Ramazi (RINGS 05/25/96) #27 - Rey Misterio Jr vs Psicosis (WCW Bash at the Beach 07/07/96) #28 - Manami Toyota vs Sakie Hasegawa (AJW 03/20/96) #29 - Nobuhiko Takada vs Shiro Koshinaka (NJPW 03/01/96) #30 - Psicosis vs Ultraman (AAA 03/16/96) #31 - Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels (WWF Wrestlemania XII 03/31/96) #32 - Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Otani (NJPW 03/17/96) #33 - Vader, Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs Shawn Michaels, Ahmed Johnson & Sid (WWF International Incident 07/21/96) #34 - Rey Misterio Jr vs Dean Malenko (WCW Monday Nitro 07/08/96) #35 - Shinya Hashimoto & Junji Hirata vs Kazuo Yamazaki & Takashi Iizuka (NJPW 06/12/96) #36 - Taka Michinoku vs Super Delphin (NJPW Skydiving J 06/17/96) #37 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue (AJPW 05/24/96) #38 - Shinya Hashimoto & Junji Hirata vs Yoshihiro Takayama & Yoji Anjo (NJPW 02/25/96) #39 - Rey Misterio Jr vs Juventud Guerrera (AAA 03/16/96) #40 - Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart (WWF In Your House VI 02/18/96) #41 - Vader vs Antonio Inoki (NJPW 01/04/96) #42 - Jushin Liger & Black Tiger vs Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto (NJPW 02/15/96) #43 - Shawn Michaels vs Diesel (WWF Good Friends Better Enemies 04/28/96) #44 - Steven Regal vs Fit Finlay (WCW Uncensored 03/24/96) #45 - PG-13 vs Tracy Smothers & Jesse James Armstrong (USWA TV 02/17/96) #46 - Jushin Liger vs Dick Togo (NJPW Skydiving J 06/17/96) #47 - El Dandy & El Hijo del Santo & Silver King vs Negro Casas & Apolo Dantes & El Satanico (CMLL 02/10/96) #48 - Hayabusa & Masato Tanaka & Koji Nakagawa vs W*ING Kanemura & Mitsuhiro Matsunaga & Hidoh (FMW 01/10/96) #49 - Steve Austin vs Marc Mero (WWF King of the Ring 06/23/96) #50 - Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke (World Wrestling Peace Festival 06/01/96) #51 - Jerry Lawler vs Jeff Jarrett (USWA TV 04/20/96) #52 - Rey Misterio Jr vs Juventud Guerrera (ECW Big Ass Extreme Bash 03/09/96) #53 - Ric Flair vs Eddy Guerrero (WCW Monday Nitro 05/20/96) #54 - Cactus Jack vs Mikey Whipwreck (ECW Big Ass Extreme Bash 03/09/96) #55 - Sabu vs 2 Cold Scorpio (ECW 04/19/96) #56 - Shawn Michaels vs Davey Boy Smith (WWF King of the Ring 06/23/96) #57 - Manami Toyota vs Yumiko Hotta (AJW 01/22/96) #58 - Black Tiger vs Shinjiro Otani (NJPW 06/05/96) #59 - Manami Toyota vs Kyoko Inoue (AJW 03/31/96) #60 - Psicosis vs Ultraman (AAA 01/18/96) #61 - Sting, Lex Luger & Randy Savage vs Ric Flair, Chris Benoit & Steve McMichael (WCW Monday Nitro 07/29/96) #62 - 2 Cold Scorpio vs Sabu (ECW Cyberslam 02/17/96) #63 - Rey Misterio Jr & Perro Aguayo vs La Parka & Ultimo Dragon vs Cibernetico & Pierroth Jr vs Heavy Metal & Psicosis (AAA 06/02/96) #64 - Jushin Liger vs Koji Kanemoto (NJPW 01/04/96) #65 - PG-13 vs Tracy Smothers & Jesse James Armstrong (USWA TV 01/20/96) #66 - Manami Toyota & Mariko Yoshida & Kaoru Ito & Yumi Fukawa vs Takako Inoue & Kyoko Inoue & Chapparita Asari & Tomoko Watanabe (AJW 02/12/96) #67 - 1-2-3 Kid vs Hakushi (WWF Monday Night RAW 02/05/96) #68 - El Dandy & Silver King & Lizmark vs Negro Casas & El Felino & El Satanico (CMLL 06/28/96) #69 - Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (NJPW 06/11/96) #70 - Genichiro Tenryu vs Tatsumi Fujinami (NJPW Battle Formation 04/29/96) #71 - Jushin Liger & El Samurai & Gran Hamada vs Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto & Taka Michinoku (NJPW 04/05/96) #72 - Shawn Michaels vs Marty Jannetty (WWF Monday Night RAW 07/01/96) #73 - Steve Austin vs Savio Vega (WWF Beware of Dog 05/28/96) #74 - Rey Misterio Jr vs Juventud Guerrera (AAA 01/31/96) #75 - Wild Pegasus vs Shinjiro Otani (NJPW 03/20/96) #76 - Chris Jericho vs Pit Bull #2 (ECW Hardcore Heaven 06/22/96) #77 - Shinya Hashimoto vs Kazuo Yamazaki (NJPW 01/04/96) #78 - Shawn Michaels vs Davey Boy Smith (WWF Beware of Dog 05/26/96) #79 - El Dandy & Atlantis & Hector Garza vs Apolo Dantes & Dr Wagner Jr & El Felino (CMLL June 1996) #80 - Ric Flair vs The Giant (WCW Monday Nitro 03/25/96) #81 - Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Dick Murdoch (PWFG 05/23/96) #82 - Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (WCW SuperBrawl VI 02/11/96) #83 - Mitsuhiro Matsunaga & W*ING Kanemura & Hido vs Masato Tanaka & Ricky Fuji & Tetsuhiro Kuroda (FMW 02/23/96) #84 - Nobuhiko Takada vs Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW Battle Formation 04/29/96) #85 - Aja Kong vs Combat Toyota (FMW 01/10/96) #86 - Shawn Michaels vs 1-2-3 Kid (WWF Monday Night RAW 03/04/96) #87 - Steven Regal vs Fit Finlay (WCW Saturday Night 04/27/96) #88 - Atlantis & Lizmark & El Hijo del Santo vs El Felino & Bestia Salvaje & El Satanico (CMLL 40th Anniversary Show 04/19/96) #89 - Jushin Liger vs Black Tiger (NJPW 02/03/96) #90 - Shawn Michaels vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley (WWF Monday Night RAW 05/13/96) #91 - Road Warriors vs Rick & Scott Steiner (WCW Monday Nitro 03/11/96) #92 - Juventud Guerrera & Psicosis vs Volador & El Mexicano (AAA 01/12/96) #93 - Jushin Liger vs Dean Malenko (WCW Monday Nitro 05/06/96) #94 - Shawn Michaels vs Leif Cassidy (WWF Monday Night RAW 03/25/96) #95 - Dean Malenko vs Disco Inferno (WCW Bash at the Beach 07/07/96) #96 - Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (WCW Monday Nitro 02/19/96) #97 - Sting vs Scott Steiner (WCW Monday Nitro 05/27/96)

Is there any plan at all to reveal the anonymous GM at any point ever?

Tony: "How many times have you seen a man run into a gorilla press slam to get out of the way of a fruit tray?" Larry on Mongo: "You shouldn't insult his face. He just has a scar. I know he has a weird face, but he loves to fight." What may get forgotten is that before the big angle, these guys were having a great match. The crowd was very into it and all six guys were working really hard. But if the match was great, this angle was a home run. I tend to think this is the best angle in WCW history. During the match, Jimmy Hart runs to ringside freaking out because "The Outsiders are in the back." The camera starts falling all over the place trying to chase him backstage and you see Arn Anderson and Marcus Bagwell laid out while Hall and Nash throw down baseball bats. Scotty Riggs comes out to check on Bagwell and Hall knocks him out. Rey tries to jump on Nash, and in a super famous spot, gets thrown like a dart into the side of the trailer. Savage starts chasing them away and jumps on top of the limousine as the NWO speeds off, which was a nice bit of attention to detail, as Savage didn't need to be part of the aftermath. Rey starts screaming that he saw four guys. Woman is screaming and crying and embracing Arn. Benoit is in tears. Emotions are high and the Horsemen and Dungeon of Doom start to get into a brawl, but get separated. The show stops dead in its tracks. Arn Anderson and Rey Misterio were both scheduled for matches later on the show that can't happen now. Bobby Heenan is hysterical and refuses to stay around, fearing for his own safety. And in the final touch, which I LOVE, Marcus Bagwell and Arn Anderson are taken away in the same ambulance. Sting and Flair, top rivals in WCW for years, find themselves in an unlikely alliance. They hop in the same ambulance to attend to their friends and that's the final scene.

"Have you seen the size of Harlem Heat lately? They're HUGE!" - Bagwell "I know, and I'm sick of it." - Riggs Gene Okerlund hides and takes notes in the locker room. Sting is at dinner and Okerlund hides under the table listening to him. Disco Inferno makes a pass at Kimberly in a hotel pool, and Okerlund is spying on them under water. Lex Luger and Jimmy Hart are excited about something, and Okerlund is hiding in their hotel room closet. I'm pretty sure a few laws were broken here.

Clips of Mark Henry dunking a basketball, breaking world records in powerlifting, appearing on Oprah and getting in a shot on Jerry Lawler. Based on Henry's athletic credentials and size, I can definitely see why they paid big money for him, even if it didn't quite work out how they'd probably hoped.