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Loss

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Everything posted by Loss

  1. When I saw the title and the folder, I immediately wondered why WWE was releasing something about the short-lived Lex Luger/Davey Boy Smith tag team.
  2. Talk about it when you get it here.
  3. Talk about it when you get it here.
  4. Talk about it when you get it here.
  5. Talk about it when you get it here.
  6. Talk about it when you get it here.
  7. Talk about it when you get it here.
  8. Talk about it when you get it here.
  9. Talk about it when you get it here.
  10. The DVD is made! The matchlist is as follows: Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko vs. Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes (SuperBrawl 2/29/92) Rick Rude Music Video “Addicted To Love” (WCCW 1986) Espectrito vs. Mascarita Sagrada (AAA 3/12/94) Ric Flair goes crazy! (NWA 2/20/88) Ric Flair vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (AJ 6/8/83) MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (Hair vs. Hair) (EMLL 9/23/83) Eddy Guerrero & Art Barr vs. El Hijo del Santo & Octagon (AAA 11/5/93) Antonio Inoki vs. Jack Brisco (JWA 8/5/71) Hiroshi Hase vs. Nobuhiko Takada (NJPW 3/11/88) PM Goodhelmet for details on obtaining the disc.
  11. There is definitely a Flair formula, and to me, it's what makes him great. Your opponent gets the best of you early on (pretty much everyone), most of the time with a side headlock (Taylor, Reed, Sting, Steamboat). A change in momentum causes his opponent to miss a move or make a key mistake (Koloff, Sting, Luger, Steamboat), often times affecting the leg or knee, which creates an opening for Flair to begin working on the guy's leg to set up the figure four. While in the figure four, he will typically hold the ropes when the referee isn't looking and get a few nearfalls off of it until the babyface finds the resolve to turn the move over, which the announcer will inevitably point out is the only known counter (Windham, Steamboat, Sting, Luger). In the middle of their comeback, the babyface will catch a thumb to the eye from Flair. Flair will then climb to the top rope, only to get slammed to the mat (Nikita, Luger, Sting, Kerry). At some point, some chops may be thrown in. His opponents will either shrug them off (Road Warriors, Sting, Luger, Nikita), chop back (Steamboat, Garvin), or sell them and punch him in retaliation (pretty much everyone else). The next few minutes will see the babyface hit a series of offensive moves and get a *really* close nearfall, which will totally reel in the crowd. There may be a 10-count of babyface punches while standing on the middle rope in the corner (Sting, Luger, Kerry), after which Flair will walk to the center of the ring in a daze and fall on his face. Within a few minutes of this happening, Flair will find a way to win the match either with his feet on the ropes (Luger), his opponent's feet on the ropes (Kerry), or a handful of tights. The match will then be over. There are slight variations on that, but that's basically the Flair formula. It's great! I understand pointing out that Flair is formulaic and repetitive, because he is. What I don't understand is the presumption that (a) that's a bad thing ( that's somehow different from almost every other great heel who has had a similar role © the matches are *SO* clung to that formula that if you've seen one Flair match, you've seen them all I think a common problem with Flair matches is that they judge him based on those same few matches over and over. You know the ones, Harley Race at Starrcade '83, the Dusty Rhodes feud, and the Steamboat series. WWE is completely unaware he had any other matches or opponents at any point in the 80s. It's no wonder people are sick of them. They will occasionally throw us a bone and provide a rare match (Barry Windham on Worldwide) or a match that has never before been released (Ricky Morton) and sadly, no one talks about it. All anyone wants to talk about is fucking Wrestle War '89 and Clash VI. Enough. Please. I'm a huge Flair fan, and I'm sick of those matches. Move on. But let's talk about each of those points: (a) That's a bad thing Why? Why is it bad to have signature spots or have similar archs in the way two matches are laid out? Flair wrestled a ridiculous schedule in the 80s, and to expect him to sit down and watch a bunch of Terry Gordy matches while he's in Puerto Rico because he's wrestling him the next night in Dallas at the Sportatorium is patently insane. Seriously, look at this schedule, and tell me when Flair is supposed to study a bunch of tapes of his opponents: http://www.wrestling-titles.com/nwa/world/...atches1985.html Specifically focus on April and May. Also, keep in mind that schedule is probably missing some dates, and also doesn't account for flying to all the TV studios where he probably didn't even have a match, but had to catch a redeye to do a two minute promo to hype a show taking place in two weeks. Yes, every NWA champ is bound to this schedule, so I think if someone is going to somehow state that this is bad thing, the onus is on that person to look at another NWA champ with a similar schedule, take a week or two week block of time where they were wrestling in a different place pretty much every night, and point out how different (and good) all of those matches are. Flair's point of view, for the record, was always that because he saw Ray Stevens once live and was disappointed that he worked a "different" type of match and he didn't get to see any of the signature spots, he vowed he would always do the Flair show so fans weren't disappointed that they didn't get to see him do his trademark spots, some of which happened to be bumps. ( That's somehow different from almost every other great heel who had a similar role We've discussed this. Every wrestler in the history of wrestling is repetitive. That doesn't mean there can't be variety, which leads to: ©the matches are *SO* clung to that formula that if you've seen one Flair match, you've seen them all Sometimes the opening matwork was a side headlock, in the cases described above, and sometimes it would be a hammerlock or an armbar. Sometimes Flair would mix in some arm work (Wahoo, Luger at Wrestle War '90). Sometimes, he would throw in the "Let's both tumble over the top rope" spot, and sometimes he wouldn't. Sometimes he would be carefree and animated at the beginning of a match (Luger at Starrcade '88 and Clash XII) and sometimes he would be more serious (Funk at Bash '89). If you look at the Garvin matches, you'll find that there are definitely differences between a Flair/Garvin match and a Flair/Sting match. They're barely alike at all. If you watch the Flair/Jake match from the Mid South set, you'll see a match pretty unlike any other Flair match you're likely to ever watch. You might also watch Flair get suplexed to eternity by Scott McGhee in Florida and have trouble finding a similar match. It's worth taking the context of these matches into consideration as well. The goal was often the big picture, and Flair's job was typically to make the babyface look like he's good enough to be the world champion. Because Flair was so good at this is the reason he's talked about as the best wrestler ever -- you're not likely to find too many wrestlers in history who are on his level at getting over the big picture. You will find better mat workers, better fliers, wrestlers with more offense, wrestlers whose matches are generally much more internally logical, wrestlers who are maybe better and less annoying sellers, but who else is able to pull what they have together so well, in a way where they were able to produce consistently, in long matches against a wide variety of opponents? If you're going to argue that as he entered the 90s, he failed to make changes in his style that might have kept him fresh, I'm inclined to agree with that. When I make the case for Flair, I make the case for the 80s Ric Flair, and I think when people make an argument against Flair by focusing on his 90s or 00s stuff, they're either missing the point and need to watch more Flair, which is probably the majority, or they're purposely using bad examples to make their point, which is probably a minority. I think one of the problems, however, with overly focusing on how dated Flair's stuff was by the 90s, is that he was still better than the majority of those around him, and there was really no one pushing him to improve at that point. I remember very well the first time I saw Flair and thought he looked old, and it was when he was trying to keep up with Steve Austin and Brian Pillman at the June '93 Clash. Going back to the 80s, I also agree that how Flair was booked made him stale by the time the decade was winding down. He needed fresh opponents in the worst way, and you do see new life breathed into him in 1989. It was the first time in ages (maybe it never even happened at all in the Crockett years) where the promotion not only decided they were going to treat Flair as their centerpiece, but also that they were going to seek out new opponents to come in and face him. They did that with Steamboat, then they did it with Terry Funk, and it revitalized him. Perhaps had he been booked to have new rivalries consistently during the Crockett era, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
  12. The content has been selected, and the disc is currently being made, and details should be available within the next few days.
  13. You once said there is almost no storytelling in wrestling because a story involves change, so most of wrestling isn't storytelling, it's just keeping a narrative. At least that's what I think you said. Do you still agree with that?
  14. This company never ceases to amaze. From the latest Powerslam magazine: "Dunn's philsophical overlap with Vince extends beyond wrestling. Like the WWE Chairman, Dunn is an ultra-conservative Republican who supported George W. Bush. In 2004, Dunn earned Vince's compliments when he proudly flouted company policy to wear a giant 'Bush/Cheney 2004' badge to work on the day after the election. In 2008, creative team sources allege that Dunn, ironically, had anyone who wore clothing or merchandise related to the Democratic President-elect formally reprimanded by the company. Meanwhile, sources backstage report overhearing McMahon and Dunn discussing how Obama's policies will so badly damage America's ecomony that periodic cuts in WWE personnel will be required in order for the company to continue to pay their multi-million-dollar executive salaries and stock dividends."
  15. Loss

    Buddy Rose

    I feel like we should have a Buddy Rose thread in light of him passing away. I haven't seen nearly as much of him as I would like, although I have tons of stuff, and in the future, will use this thread to drop comments on his matches. But I'm sure others may have things to say now.
  16. Forgetting any behind-the-scenes stuff, Hogan really came across horribly at the end of Wrestlemania IX, with the whole Bret to Yokozuna to Hogan title transition. He seemed like an opportunist feigning interest in Bret's well-being. I'm honestly surprised that Vince (and Hogan, for that matter) didn't think about the position that put Hogan in. I think in their mind, Bret saying "Go for it" was key, and I agree that it would have come across even worse without that. But suddenly, Hogan forgot all about Bret's well-being after winning the title, and it looked like that was all he had in mind all along.
  17. Hogan was not really a virtuous babyface. He was putting the moves on Elizabeth the whole time he was teaming with Savage, to a point where Savage snapping on him was understandable. He was a poor sport about being eliminated fairly at the 1992 Royal Rumble. He acted like a coward toward Andre the Giant at the first Survivor Series. He beat up Sensational Sherri fairly regularly in 1989. He treated Paul Orndorff like dirt when they were friends and wouldn't even return his phone calls.
  18. Goldberg wrestled twice in the same night. He had to beat Scott Hall earlier in the evening in order to get to Hogan at the end of the show. That's the Nitro where Goldberg won the title.
  19. ok...my turn... To be the man, you have to beat the...heroin charge? I was looking at Velvet Underground lyrics hoping for a somewhat obvious Flair joke, but I got nothing.
  20. Is it just me, or is someone using the phrase "on my TV" when talking about wrestling pretty annoying? Yes, because it's only on your TV.
  21. Roller Games! I had no idea anyone else on the planet remembered this! My only exposure to roller derby. Loved it.
  22. I have no problem with mega over finishers, and in Cena's case, he at least also has the STF. It's just hard to buy nearfalls in HHH or HBK matches if they're doing anything other than teasing a pedigree or superkick. I think the inherent problem with heel GMs and owners is that it creates the image that the company in charge of producing the wrestling you're watching hates you and is constantly out to screw over your favorites. Yes, there probably is some truth in that, but why promote it? It's also a very stale concept. And in using Vicki Guerrero as a GM ... I have no problem with her as a character, and she's improved a lot and is a heat magnet. But what qualifies her to be GM? Does she have some kind of track record, or knowledge, or something that granted her that position? And GMs who constantly get outsmarted because they sign things without reading the fine print and don't pay attention to the show they're in charge of is second only to wrestlers shown arriving in a limo halfway through a show as the most annoying thing ever.
  23. In terms of finishers, I like wrestlers who have multiple moves that can finish a match. Not a big fan of wrestlers who only have one believable finish, like the Sweet Chin Music or the Pedigree. I think finishers always having to end matches in WWE is a marketing need. WWE used to sell "Master of the Crossface" shirts for Benoit, which are a tough sell if he's not ending matches with it decisively. But one thing I do miss that doesn't exist as much in modern wrestling is flash pins: reverse rollups, inside cradles, etc.
  24. I think part of the reason for that goes back to jdw's original point: that the WWF has never been particularly good at booking heels. It's a babyface promotion, through and through.
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