Loss

It's all very ironic. For years, the pro wrestling lifestyle has led to a multitude of deaths that are pretty much attributed to the demands and stress of the wrestling business and life on the road. These deaths are totally different. While I do think you can say the demands and stress of wrestling are complicit in what happened here, it's really an indirect effect, and there are plenty of other factors. Yet it's this particular case, the one that wasn't a classic drug overdose or enlarged heart, that is likely to cause the most long-term damage to wrestling. I've read many things from many fans upset about WWE being treated unfairly in this case, and there is some truth to that. But honestly, how many times have they been lucky to avoid a much-deserved media frenzy in the past? I love wrestling and hardly want it to die or anything, but it's far more important that the cause of so many wrestlers dying young is pinpointed and that steps are taken to avoid it continuing to happen than it is that the business continues to survive and prosper. It's important to look at the big picture. Yes, these murders are most likely not because of roid rage. But this is the breaking point, and this wrestling death was under such horrid circumstances and claimed the life of a small child. It would have been a national news story even if no celebrities were involved. This was the final straw for the mainstream media ignoring wrestling, so when they talk about steroids, look at it as the media discussing the larger problems in wrestling, instead of just the media trying to make sense of this one individual case. Wrestling has managed to avoid being accountable for decades and that avoidance appears to be ending, at least for now. And those who say they will choose to remember Benoit for what he did up until the last two days of his life make me ill. What he did in those last two days had more impact and was far more significant than anything he could have possibly accomplished in the lifetime preceding it.

I found some cached stuff on Google, so there may be hope for retrieving some of it.

Yes. Everyone who PM'd me, look for an e-mail tomorrow or Wednesday.

I'd like to try to save what we can manage to save of the good Smarkschoice threads. I haven't checked any of these yet to see if any of them work, but maybe we can salvage some of the stuff here: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.sm...hoice.com/forum Mainly the GWE countdown thread (whatever can be salvaged of it), KCook's lucha talk and a few other match reviews. Copy/paste whatever you find that is worth keeping into this thread, and maybe we can at least access that.

Also, an e-mail should be going out in the next day or two with information on the next disc.

It also led to more pin attempts and a faster pace than you'd get from most house show matches. The wrestlers wanted to get a televised win where everyone could see it and knew time was limited, so they took more chances. It was also a really good explanation for why a match that went 6-8 minutes on TV would take 20-25 minutes on a house show.

Just to update on this, what I'm going to do this month is send out a new 4-hour DVD, but for those who missed the first month and are interested, I will include that DVD as well. I will continue doing that as needed as long as this project continues, as discussion of the matches obviously doesn't have to end when the month is over. However, I know some people who received discs who have not said anything about any of the footage they've received. I encourage those people to start talking about the first disc, or I will probably not include them in the second one. There are still some matches that have only gotten one reply from the first month, and I sent out 19 discs.

I don't think the current problem with wrestling is as much the erosion of kayfabe, as much as it is that there's so much emphasis on having good matches that no one even cares to learn how to do an effective interview. There's a mindset in both WWE and in the indies that interviews are intended to be entertaining/nostalgic/funny, and the idea of using one to hype a show seems to be forgotten. I'd love to see a return to the kayfabe days, but I acknowledge that there's no going back. However, what annoys me more than anything is when I'm watching a wrestling show that attempts to be overly clever and cutesy.

Doing the ones I can ... AAA: Eddy Guerrero & Art Barr vs El Hijo del Santo & Octagon (11/05/93) AJW: Chigusa Nagayo vs Devil Masami (08/22/85) All Japan: Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (12/06/96) ARSION: Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda vs AKINO & Ayako Hamada (12/11/99) AWA: Rick Martel & Tito Santana vs Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell (07/18/82) BattlARTS: Yuki Ishikawa vs Daisuke Ikeda (05/27/98) BJPW: Abdullah Kobayashi vs Takashi Sasaki (03/31/06) Central States (Kansas City): Ric Flair vs Harley Race (03/24/84) CMLL/EMLL: MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana (09/23/83) ECW: Yoshihiro Taijiri vs Psicosis (08/20/00) Florida: Ric Flair vs Barry Windham (02/14/86) Georgia: Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (06/02/84) Hamada's UWF: El Hijo del Santo, Super Astro & Kendo vs Fuerza Guerrera, Pierroth Jr & Jerry Estrada (06/04/90) IWA Mid South: Samoa Joe vs Necro Butcher (06/11/05) IWE: Carlos Plata & El Doberman vs Mighty Inoue & Mach Hayato (11/01/80) IWRG: El Texano, Negro Navarro & El Signo v Super Astro, Ultraman & Solar (02/10/05) JWA: Antonio Inoki vs Jack Brisco (08/05/71) Maeda's UWF 1.0 (1984-1985): Super Tiger vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara (06/24/85) Maeda's UWF 2.0 (1988-1990): Akira Maeda vs Nobuhiko Takada (01/16/89) Memphis/USWA: Jerry Lawler vs Harley Race (12/10/77) Michinoku Pro: Taka Michinoku, Shoichi Funaki, Dick Togo, Mens Teoh & Shiru v Gran Hamada, Super Delphin, Tiger Mask IV, Gran Naniwa & Masato Yakushiji (10/10/96) Mid Atlantic: Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood vs Sgt Slaughter & Don Kernodle (03/12/83) Mid South: Dick Murdoch vs Butch Reed (09/22/85) New Japan: Nobuhiko Takada vs Hiroshi Hase (03/12/88) NWA (JCP 1985-1988): Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (07/05/86) NOAH: Kenta Kobashi vs Minoru Suzuki (01/08/05) OMEGA: Surge vs Willow the Whisp (07/31/98) Portland: Dynamite Kid, Rip Oliver & The Assassin v Buddy Rose, Curt Hennig & Billy Jack Haynes (05/26/83) RINGS: Volk Han vs Yoshihisa Yammamoto (08/13/97) ROH: Samoa Joe, BJ Whitmer & Adam Pearce v Necro Butcher, Chris Hero & Super Dragon (04/22/06) SMW: Rock & Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies (04/01/94) WCW (1989-2001): Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Larry Zbyszko & Sid Vicious v Sting, Brian Pillman, Rick & Scott Steiner (02/24/91) World Class: Michael Hayes, Buddy Roberts & Terry Gordy v Iceman Parsons, Kevin & David Von Erich (05/20/83) WWA Los Angeles: El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas (07/18/87) WWWF (Pre-1981): Bob Backlund vs Ken Patera (05/19/80) WWF (1981-2002): Sgt Slaughter vs Iron Sheik (06/16/84) WWE (2002-present): Eddy Guerrero vs Rey Misterio Jr (06/21/05)

Kind of a pseudo-ripoff as a concept, but still thought it would be fun. I listed as many promotions as I could possibly think of, but feel free to add your own. 3PW AAA AJW All Japan APW ARSION AULL AWA BattlARTS BJPW Central States (Kansas City) Chikara CMLL/EMLL Continental/Alabama CZW DDT Dragon Gate ECW ECWA Florida FMW FULL GAEA Georgia Global HWA Hamada's UWF IWA Japan IWA Mid South IWA Puerto Rico IWE IWRG JAPW Jd' JWA JWP K-1 Kaientai Dojo Kingdom LLPW Maeda's UWF 1.0 (1984-1985) Maeda's UWF 2.0 (1988-1990) Memphis/USWA Michinoku Pro Mid Atlantic Mid South Monterrey NEO New Japan NWA (JCP 1985-1988) NOAH OMEGA Onita Pro Osaka Pro OVW Oz Academy Pancrase Portland Promo Azteca PWFG ReMix RINGS ROH Shooto SMW St. Louis SWS TNA Toryumon/Toryumon X/T2P U-STYLE UWA UWFI WAR WCW (1989-2001) W*ING World Class WWA Los Angeles WWC (Puerto Rico) WWWF (Pre-1981) WWF (1981-2002) WWE (2002-present) Zero One

Bette Midler got her start singing in bathhouses. If that's where Dusty met her, I am incredibly disturbed.

Funny stuff from Maxim: The Ultimate Warrior Age: 48 Odds that he'll die before 2008: 20 to 1 Why he should be dead: For the better part of the late '90s, we actually thought the Warrior (his legal name since 1993) was dead. His disappearance from the ring sparked countless rumors of his demise, but the man once known as Jim "Justice" Hellwig is still alive and delivering rant-filled speeches to directionless college kids all over the country. The clip proves his brain is mostly dead, so his (probably) steroid-riddled body can't be far behind. How he'll die: Years spent screaming at the top of his lungs and tying off his joints to make his veins pop result in an explosive brain aneurysm during one of The Warrior's tirades. The Iron Sheik Age: 67 Odds that he'll die before 2008: 5 to 1 Why he should be dead: As Howard Stern fans already know, the Sheik has a bit of a drinking problem, along with a volatile temper that makes Ron Artest look like John Stockton…in short shorts. Plus, we're pretty sure there's nothing but tumors underneath that mustache. How he'll die: We're guessing bear attack. It's a long shot, but given the unlikely circumstances that have taken the lives of other professional wrestlers, it's not entirely unreasonable. Ric Flair Age: 58 Odds that he'll die before 2008: 8 to 1 Why he should be dead: We were shocked to find out that Nature Boy was born in 1949 rather than the late 1800s. It's obvious that he still has all the style and charisma that made him a legend, but he's also spent more time in the sun than the pyramids. Skin isn't supposed to be bright orange, unless it's on top of a delicious bowl of macaroni and cheese. How he'll die: Flair will tragically choke to death in a feather boa accident. During the autopsy, doctors will find that his skin was replaced with that of a beanbag around 1989. Dusty Rhodes Age: 61 Odds that he'll die before 2008: 10 to 1 Why he should be dead: Even when Dusty was in his prime, his man boobs suggested that the American Dream spent as much time with Bit-O-Honeys as he did with barbells. Now that he has no reason to exercise, he has a regular seat in every rib joint south of Delaware. How he'll die: Can you overdose on barbecue sauce? If anyone can find out, it'll be Dusty.

In the case of ROH, I think they purposely darken the arenas and have that dingy sort of look because they are proud of that "underground feel" ... I'm pretty sure this was a Vegas show in front of 5,000 people, which is an early 90s WCW-level number, which would explain the WCW-style production values.

This is good stuff, thanks for posting. It was a different fanbase, yes. Most fans at MSG probably discovered Benoit in WWE, or maybe WCW, but likely WWE. Again, agreed. I was more referring to the type of fan that would prefer Benoit to Hogan types, where that type of fan found Benoit. Benoit got a louder ovation than Austin, Rock or Foley on that show -- all bigger and more traditional WWE stars that were stronger in that market, had stronger Wrestlemania history and were bigger stars in general. So I think there was a different type of fan there than normally attends MSG shows that night. I remember one of my college friends always thinking Benoit was so bland in WCW and never understanding why I liked him. When he saw him beat up Scotty 2 Hotty after Scotty tried using The Worm on him, he became a Benoit fan, because he felt Benoit finally countered the move and was the first WWF guy to do a logical counter to a dumb move that made sense to a person watching from home. From then on, he was a Benoit fan. He was familiar with wrestling in Japan, but preferred guys like Choshu and the AJ 4. tOA wasn't too high on the match at the time, if I recall. I do remember a thread criticizing Scott Keith's writing the day after Mania and that when he called the match ***** and said "best 3-way ever", he didn't really offer much else to back up his claim. I believe it was a jdw/Tim Cooke/Chris Coey thread arguing with Dave O'Neill, but I may be wrong. I wasn't aware Kunze was even still writing about wrestling in 2004, but if he was, I'm interested in checking out his archives. The tape trading community now is also not really the same form as the community was in the 80s and 90s. Now you have collectors and completists, where then, it was more about just catching recent wrestling that didn't air in their market so they were up to date on what was in the WON. The modern trader doesn't really talk much about the wrestling they collect as a rule, where the trader of the past was all about putting his opinions out there. From what I've been able to gather, those types loved Benoit. I agree that those types are probably not the same ones that were in MSG that night. It was a modern mutation of that type and traditional WWE fans, yet they still chose to cheer Benoit over bigger stars that were on the show. I agree with this. After toxicology reports are in, if things appear to be dying down by that time, that will probably be when I do a final re-write and address this. I agree that it should be included. These are the types of fans that got Benoit and Jericho over in the company. Eddy and Rey eventually had more crossover appeal with the Hispanic audience and got over on a wider scale, but they're also the types of fans that started cheering for them initially. These are also the same types of fans that liked Michaels and 2000 HHH. I realize that HHH, Michaels and Jericho are different types of wrestlers than Benoit, Eddy and Rey, but I think most WWE fans would group most of those guys in the same category. The Benoit tribute wasn’t in keeping with company policy. It was very different. They canceled a live show, and aired old footage. Company policy is "the show must go on". The reason they broke from that is because a week earlier they had used a wrestler memorial format for dark humor as part of an angle. They essentially killed the gimmick and like any gimmick you can’t do it two weeks in a row. As Cook wrote at time “This show exhibited some real quick thinking in working up a new gimmick to portray solemn emotions. “ Cook and I and a bunch of folks have written before about the crassness of the tribute shows. The burying of guys show must go on stuff, and how fake it all is. In the June 25th Observer Meltzer does a nice job of pointing out the flaws in the Vince is killed angle. That while in terms of management it’s clear that those tributes weren’t real, that the emotions of some of the wrestlers and audience were real. And treating those real emotions as a joke is a way of going “Ha Ha we tricked you”. Benoit was a guy who according to Meltzer had a difficult time “coming to grips with justifying working in the WWE during the exploitation of the death of Guerrero”. An emotionally guarded person who took deaths very hard and let his guard down for the Eddie tribute ( ). The Vince goes boom tributes were a real outward manifestation to everyone who watched and participated that this was “all for nothing”. I purposely avoided talk of the tribute show and the Vince angle when writing this for two reasons: (1) It seemed much smaller than the whole of this story, and at the time, I even thought it was insignificant (2) When I wrote this, most of the discussion was centered around speculation of what WWE knew and their motives, but no actual facts We now know that at least some people in WWE knew before the show went on the air about what had likely happened. That coupled with rolling out a brand new format because they made a mockery of the previous one is important to this story and should probably be added to Understanding Pro Wrestling and Wrestling Fans. I want to make sure I understand this correctly. Where would your modern WWE main event, in terms of style, fall on the card of a 1985 show promoted by Crockett or Watts?

That actually really sucks, mainly for the archive of good posts from lots of people over there. Maybe at some point, we can do a GWE-style poll here. It's probably too soon now after the last one, but maybe at some point in the future we can do it and tie it in with the DVD club somehow.

Most of the praise for Necro is usually because of the way he can lay out a match and because of his great selling, more than it is his ability to take insane bumps, although that does help. Mick Foley is an easy comparison, but they're really two different kinds of wrestlers. At this stage of Cactus's career (1988-1989), I'm not sure he was as complete a wrestler is Necro is. I implore you to watch the Super Dragon match from PWG last year if you haven't seen it, Sek. It's a great match, and while there are a few psychotic bumps, it's the match structure and the performance aspect that really pulls it all together and takes it to the next level. For me, it's the best non-ROH indy match of 2006. There are a lot of wrestlers out there who are very similar to each other, and even among great workers, very few old-fashioned tough guys in modern wrestling. I'm not sure I'd call Necro best in the world or anything, but if I had to fight someone currently in wrestling based on the image they put forth in the ring, Necro would probably be the last guy I'd choose, just because he really seems like a lunatic.

There are also no guarantees that OG is an athlete, or a famous person at all.

There are no guarantees that OG is a wrestler.

To anyone who's interested, if you could, PM me the following: Real Name Address E-mail address I'll send you all the information. I'm hoping those who received discs who haven't commented yet will do so soon, and that those who only commented on some things will comment on the rest later. I might let the first month run a little longer and send out a supplemental batch since we have lots of new members and the Benoit story has distracted everyone. I'm still not really up to watching wrestling myself, so I understand why the discussion of the DVDs has slowed.

I really, really hope TMZ has confirmed this and isn't just running with Internet rumors based on initials.

Sadly, Dan Wahlers is a step above many television reporters as far as people who understand the situation go. I say that not having read the column he wrote.

So, is MECHA Mummy still out there doing shows also?

Kurt Angle may have given him the number. (That never gets old.)

What non-drug related reason would they have for wanting to get rid of Joey Mercury?

I know we have a lot of new members, so I wanted to bump this for anyone who's interested in participating next month.