Loss

I think the advance ticket sales and the house is more intriguing than the number of PPV buys for this one. ECW has never been put in a position where they've been expected to fill an arena this size on their own, regardless of which version of the group you're talking about.

And I'm pretty sure a lot of that was Jericho working his own angle because he had his guard rightfully up by that point when he was around Trips. But yeah, they did occasionally write things to play up that even as heels who had to team sometimes because they didn't have a choice, they would never be friends. And I don't even expect major continuity. But doesn't Edge and Orton defending the tag titles against the Hardy Boyz on RAW with Lita leaving just scream angle?

WWE December PPVs usually don't do well at all anyway. This is the weakest quarter of the year for wrestling and pretty much always has been historically (not counting big holiday shows on Thanksgiving and Christmas in the territory days).

Tully Blanchard - I go back and forth over whether I like him or Arn Anderson more. Arn was probably the more intense wrestler of the two while Tully had the edge at portraying his character in the ring. Tully was also more effective as a singles wrestler and I can't really recall anything I disliked at all that he did in his peak years. Incredibly easy-to-hate heel. I'd like to see more Southwest footage of him, as I'm curious when he started to peak. The Steamboat match at Starrcade '84 and the Garvin match from Worldwide that's recently gotten discussion are both great matches, as are the more obvious big show choices like Starrcade '85 against Magnum TA. What Randy Orton should be and never will be. Akira Taue - A little physically awkward, but someone who could be pretty great at times and had an impressive peak. It's mostly 1995-1997 or so that gets talked about in his favor, and perhaps that's rightfully so, but I have really enjoyed a lot of his matches wading through 1991 All Japan, especially the Kawada match in January. Aja Kong - Just a really great heavyweight wrestler. The Dynamite Kansai match where she dropped the belt I thought was outstanding, and there's still so much of her stuff I want to see. I do see the Dump comparisons, but I think it's unfair to call her a Dump clone, as Dump was nowhere near as complete a wrestler and wasn't quite the freak of nature Kong was either. Supposedly had a really good match against Meiko Satomura this year, but I haven't seen it. Negro Casas - I delved into lucha pretty full force earlier this year and Casas instantly became one of my favorite wrestlers ever. I already thought highly of him from the LA match he had with Santo in '87, but he was consistent and could do anything. Really awesome watching him as this proto-Takada in Hamada's UWF and then watching him switch roles and become a cowardly heel in EMLL, and later a veteran technico. Santo is the most famous rivalry, but I think the El Dandy match from '92 has really crazy matwork and awesome build as well, and should be seen by all, and hopefully will with Goodhelmet's upcoming El Dandy set. Negro Casas can do just about anything -- brawl, wrestle on the mat, fly, be an asskicker or be a complete and total coward. A top 10 of all time wrestler. Dynamite Kid - Another all time great. I soured on him for a while because I was sick of those Tiger Mask matches and I don't really care all that much for the Bulldogs in the WWF, but there's so much more to his resume than that. I watched some Portland stuff of his that's mostly tags and six-mans, but he's in a strong role and looks great and is great at feeding comebacks to the babyfaces. There have been plenty of athletic wrestlers, but I was impressed that he slowed down and worked more with the guys across the ring from him instead of going full speed in an attempt to upstage them. I've also seen some great matches from Europe against Marc Rocco and Marty Jones. HHH - Lots has been said. Lots more will probably be said. I don't really have much to add at this stage, but I added him because I'm curious what others will say. Takeshi Morishima - Still haven't seen him, but that Misawa match from March is getting a lot of discussion, and tags like "best heavyweight in the world" and "the next Terry Gordy" are getting thrown around, so I need to at least watch that one match. Just haven't done it yet. Finlay - His comeback has been great. He honestly annoyed me in WCW, and shamefully I considered him in the same category with slugs like Van Hammer where I couldn't understand why he was employed because he was so NOT over and he kept beating Chris Benoit. I liked him fine early on in the Regal feud, but after that, lost interest quickly. WWE has done a far better job of featuring his strengths and getting him over. I'd probably like his WCW stuff far more now. New Japan matches are usually pretty good as well. Mistico - Good highspot guy who can have strong matches with the right people, but kind of a second-rate Rey Misterio Jr without being as complete a wrestler. Edge - I think he's improved as much as he's going to, and I think he's probably peaking right now. It's a shame he's in a company where it's not really going to matter much, even if he is kept near the top of the card. Always thought he was decent, but a decade of someone being on the verge of breaking out and never breaking out is far too long.

Out of mothballs this whole thing goes! Tully Blanchard Akira Taue Aja Kong Negro Casas Dynamite Kid HHH Takeshi Morishima Finlay Mistico Edge

I thought Flair and HHH hated each other because HHH beat him up for what seemed like hours last year on the Homecoming Raw, and they had a bloody feud that lasted several months. Are we supposed to assume that Flair has forgiven him or just forget that all that never happened? Considering the beatdown HHH gave him a year ago, what could make Edge and Orton think they're going to get under DX's skin by doing something not even quite as bad this time around? For that matter, did they ever explain why Shawn Michaels and HHH, after years and years of feuding, suddenly became friends? Of course, there's no problem with former foes becoming partners. It has happened many times to great effect in wrestling. But acknowledging that they are former foes and coming up with a reason to put them together, be it circumstance or mutual respect or whatever, should be done to explain things. Yes, you can infer that's why DX got together, but they should actually explain why they're suddenly friends again. It just got me thinking about how quickly people switch alliances in WWE and how it almost never goes explained. Edge and Orton are apparently a team that exists to combat DX. Would it kill them to mention that Edge ended Orton's long reign as IC champ a few years ago and he never won the belt again, which also in a way contributed to Orton's downward spiral? Edge and Michaels have history, Edge and Orton have history, HHH and Michaels have history, HHH and Orton have history, Edge and Flair have history, Orton and Flair have history, Michaels and Flair have history, HHH and Flair have history and Michaels and Orton have history. With some of the backstory tied into the current feud, they might be able to garner some interest in all of this. That doesn't get into the issue of no one ever getting a one up on DX, but that's a known problem, and people talk about that enough anyway. For that matter, and it's possible I've missed this, has Edge acknowledged Lita's departure at all? It's a shame her last night was last night, because the Hardyz having their big reunion and winning the tag titles from Edge and Orton with Lita in the corner of the heels would make an interesting dynamic. Lita helping the Hardyz win the belts might even make a memorable final showing for her. It's her way of saying she's sorry to Matt. Gah, I have to stop.

A combination of WWE-style booking and common sense makes the booking seem pretty understandable to me. They just put the Hardyz back together and jobbing them now would be silly, and Punk is the ECW golden child, and DX needed their win back from last month. DX were the only ones on the babyface team that could stand to do a job, and they were the team captains, so that wasn't going to happen. They took the safe route. Understandable booking, if not exactly ballsy.

I didn't realize there was more than one version of MSG. I've never really read much about this or followed the history of arenas very much, but that's really interesting. The renovation is something that I'm sure is needed in pretty much every case, but I do think that in a perfect world the old venues would be maintained as historical monuments. That said, I understand why that doesn't happen.

From the AP: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TN_...EMPLATE=DEFAULT Lots of great wrestling took place in that arena. Sad to see it go. I guess the venues in the Northeast are really the only old-time wrestling landmarks that are still going strong. The Superdome was damaged in Katrina, right? I know evacuees were going there at first, but didn't it eventually flood? And I would imagine all the TV studios where wrestling used to take place, like WMC-5 in Memphis and the Techwood Drive studio for TBS, have either been destroyed or renovated to a point where they're not really recognizable anymore. Is The Omni still in Atlanta?

The most intriguing thing on the show to me is the booking of the DX elimination match.

What the hell?

Man, I've been so unmotivated to write about wrestling for a long time now, but maybe I'll watch the right thing and it will inspire me. Any suggestions?

Flair obviously is a shell of his former self at this point, but he's still going. Most people seem to think he'll wrestle until he's either kicked out or dies, and he's not likely to ever get kicked out. On one hand, he's killed a lot of what he's accomplished in his prime by staying around way too long, but on the other hand, it's amazing that a guy who turns 58 next year is still on the road working a full time schedule.

All I can think when I see the title of this thread is "she-seems-to-have-an-invisible-touch, yeah!"

DX is definitely uncool, and the plug needs to be pulled yesterday.

I wish TNA was great, because I want someone to catch up to WWE. But it seems like a lot of people who are such overwhelming TNA supporters only are so because they are sick of WWE and will support literally anything going against it. It's usually the type of fans who desperately want there to be competition, so they pretend that TNA is better than it is.

Hogan was filming Santa With Muscles from April-July 1996.

I thought the deal with Hogan changing his mind for the day of the show was in relation to the August Clash, not the Havoc match. Is it true that there was an attempt made to sign Curt Hennig and have him interfere on Flair's behalf in the match? Was he supposed to be the masked man originally in the takeoff of the Tonya Harding angle?

Bischoff says in his book that Ric Flair held him up for a new contract right before Halloween Havoc '94 and the retirement match with Hogan, just hours before the show. Has this been confirmed elsewhere?

This thread is specifically for HTQ to go crazy. So, because this interested me in Bischoff's book, tell us about some of the more memorable controversies surrounding the lies on the WCW Hotline.

So it looks like I'm going to miss Part 1. Anyone care to share some of the highlights?

He also mentioned how Ric Flair, Jim Ross, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, Sean Waltman and even Paul Heyman have used him to get their characters over, which he takes as a compliment.

Believe it or not, and I thought this was interesting, Bischoff even addressed all the criticisms of the WCW Hotline and admitted fault for Gene Okerlund hyping Jerry Blackwell's death as a selling point, and said that Gene was motivated to make up any stories he could just to get people to call in because he received a portion of the profits. He said they made great money off of that hotline for a long time, though.

It'll probably be in line with other recent business. WWE at this point seems to be in a state where the buyrates and television ratings are not really different enough to matter, regardless of who is on top and how good or bad the storylines are. It's just the core audience buying the shows, and they seem to shrink every year post-Wrestlemania.

Thanks for the recap. So, he'd be in all 10 of the Top 10 Matches in WWF/E history? Riiiight ...