Loss

I didnt think we should host this but I thought the Military Industrial Suplex folder was a good idea. My judgment is pretty terrible.

Is the wrestler good or bad? That requires some degree of knowledge beyond just watching, I suppose, depending on your outlook. Is the match good or bad? You can answer that question by just watching.

This sounds like Great Match Theory. 😀

In this case, I wonder why they dont just make every single match exactly what it should be, whether thats to be great or to accomplish a more specific goal. Why is there sometimes failure?

You don't think there's a huge difference of talent between a guy who's able to execute a script and a guy who's able to put his own match together or even call it in the ring ? There is but since we arent privy to the details of how matches are put together most of the time, I can only call what I see.

I don't. Wrestling is about execution.

I'm a WCW guy by way of Jim Crockett Promotions. Became a hardcore fan in JCPs dying days.

He won't be everything he can be for sure, but I just can't envision a scenario at this point where he's a lesser star than the top of the middle guys like Kevin Owens, The Miz, New Day, etc. I think it's nearly impossible for him to be viewed below them, even if he's booked at that level.

The two things that they don't seem to understand, admittedly: - He got over in spite of how he was booked, not because of it - He's not the "ultimate underdog" -- it's just not his character

I should clarify -- they should be booking Bryan as a real headliner who only loses on rare occasions when it makes sense. I don't think they're booking him to his full potential. But he's never going to be Heath Slater. I don't know if those saying WWE isn't doing much with him are arguing that or not.

As amusing as it may be for people to offer authoritative comments on matches they haven't seen, let the record reflect that Okada/Tanahashi did not contain a single big move 2.9 kick out. As for Bryan, Dave on Twitter said that his Google profile has declined significantly since Wrestlemania, so WWE's master plan to keep him strong clearly isn't working. Since post-comeback HBK was brought up, the contrast between the two is instructive. Shawn was never the top guy, but he was heavily protected both in who he worked with and in wins and losses. It was over a year into his comeback before he had a PPV match that wasn't for the world championship or against a former world champion. And he almost never lost clean, let alone on TV. When he did job, he usually got his win back shortly afterward. It was the peak season for wrestling and he had just returned to great fanfare after a three-year absence. It makes sense that there would be some decline. I'm not defending WWE's use of him, more pointing out that he's always going to be at a high level, whether he's booked there or not. Even the opening match he's in will be a big match on the show because he's in it.

I'll also add that Cena loses constantly now and means far less than he should. I think they see him the same way and to an extent he is bulletproof, but he should still mean more now when he shows up. Rock might be the only guy that can lose infinitely without losing any aura.

When WWE sees wrestlers as bulletproof, they start treating them that way. It's why Jericho lost all the time. Hell, it's why Flair was booked the way he was for so long too. And it's true that they will always be stars, but that booking will always keep them away from the tippety top, or in Flair's case, it eventually catches up. He went from being the biggest drawing NWA champ ever to the lowest drawing one in less than half a decade with that mindset.

I think Luger held that opinion briefly. It might have been something he said in passing more than a hard stance, because by March of 1990 when they were going to make him champ by beating Flair in a house show and Flair felt it would be best to wait for Sting, it caused some resentment on his side.

I think Flair referenced that story in a promo during his 2005 program with HHH too.

Yeah, not steamed, but why doesn't he just raise his standards and give less matches *****? He's the one who always argues that these norms shift.

Manami Toyota had two matches rated ***** in the WON on the same day. Edit: Both matches also involved Kyoko Inoue, Akira Hokuto, and Toshiyo Yamada, so I'm not sure why Toyota is the only one that gets cited in that case. Unless when he says that, he's referring to something different than the 12/10/93 back-to-back tags.

What do you make of Nia Jax? (Who is stunningly beautiful in her best modeling photos, by the way ...)

I'll add that in the same issue, just before saying this, he had a news item about trying to draw a house in Toronto on the idea that it's Daniel Bryan's return after three years. I didn't realize they did that with their guys in the middle.

Oh jeez, Daniel Bryan is not just another guy. They do need to come up with a real path for him and good opponents, yes, but fans will never let him become just another guy.

For Luger being champion? They had ruined Sting the previous year and needed to build up someone else. The Bash in '91 was set up as his big coronation before Flair quit for the WWF. Flair was willing to put over Luger if he got a new contract first. Herd wanted to cut his salary and Flair wanted an extension at the same rate. So then, they came back with the idea to drop it to Barry Windham, more because they knew Flair would have a tough time saying no for any reason with such a close friend. Flair agreed to that, but he had the falling out with WCW before the match happened. Windham was a pawn who would have only had the belt for a couple of weeks, but was manipulated into thinking Flair cost him his big break by refusing to do business. The funny thing about it is that Herd came back offering Flair a raise and a long contract to return, but Flair had already started talking to Vince and was sick of Herd. The final offer at that point was for more than Flair even asked for to begin with in an attempt to get him back. Watts signed Flair back after replays of old Steamboat matches did big ratings on TBS and when Vince made clear that he was no longer going to be a top guy. But Watts was gone a few days before Flair returned on camera because WCW.