Loss

Interesting story with the Flair stuff. Watts felt like Rude and Chono killed the NWA title by having a horrible match at Halloween Havoc. He wanted to rebuild it as something they could draw with, so he and Jim Ross started pulling great matches from the archives that just happened to be Flair vs Steamboat. Anyway, showing those matches popped a huge rating on TBS, which led to Watts signing Flair ... and leaving WCW right as Flair was coming in.

They definitely needed to push the idea more than Hogan had something to prove. He didn't, and he was entitled to his spot. But that doesn't mean he should have been presented as entitled to his spot, if that makes sense.

Zeb and Heyman randomly running into each other and arguing should happen as long as they are both in the company.

Their combined age would be 106.

Doesn't Wade already do this? Couldn't people just refer to those?

Who is in the match?

But when Austin had beaten Rock, that was before Austin had major neck surgery and before Rock had really hit his prime. By the time they had their match at Mania 17, Rock was now at his zenith while Austin was older and unsure if he'd break down. The problem was that they should have said that explicitly and repeatedly. Austin's comeback was going swimmingly. It's not like he had any reason to worry that he couldn't pull it off.

It's just so funny because it's not like Austin hadn't beaten Rock before on his own terms and needed to make that jump. It's not like he was on a losing streak. I guess we were supposed to think losing to HHH made him that desperate, but it made no sense.

Someone made the point here about bodybuilding culture not really being relevant since the 1980s, and I thought that was a great point. The thing is, people in the wrestling bubble never got the memo, so that's still their perception of what a top star looks like. I think the key is variety more than any one type.

Perhaps if everyone in wrestling looked ordinary I would be inclined to agree with you. But I think looking different is more important than looking big in getting over. There aren't a lot of top guys in WWE who look like Bryan, so I think when you have one guy who has that look, he stands out uniquely because of it. If the main event scene was filled with Daniel Bryans, it would stink and wouldn't work at all. And I do agree with the idea that a guy who is smaller has to be exceptionally good to hang at that level. Where we differ is that Bryan and Rey have proven that they can hang at that level. Rey's days on top are over, but he was successful, even while being booked as a chump. I wouldn't even say he and Bryan got over in spite of their size. They got over because of their size. They're different. They aren't the norm. That's what got them over. I'm not saying credibility isn't important. It is. Guys who have it in physical appearance have natural advantages in getting over. Guys who don't have size going for them have to have it in other ways. I can see having trouble with Rey because most of his offense was based on flash and resourcefulness more than being tough. I don't agree with that take, but I can see it. But Bryan is more of an asskicker and has a KO finish which has beaten everyone. He has also been presented as an underdog in the way he's been booked, but he doesn't work his matches as an underdog. He usually dominates his matches and takes more offense than most babyfaces in the company. I think that's part of what has helped him get over. In five years, if everyone at the top is Daniel Bryan's size, a huge guy will come along and get over for being different. I think it's more important to be unique than it is to be a certain size.

Nothing publicly. It's been in the WON for a few years that he gets angry at the idea Foley "made" him and resents when that gets played up.

I don't know the answer to either question. Both are good questions.

Perhaps he should go on steroids and become bad in the ring. Would that make you appreciate him more? Would that get him more over? I hate this strawman argument that people think workrate makes a star. No one in the history of this board has ever made that argument. No one thinks that. Saying that people think that is dishonest. For the record, these are the things people can say in message board posts that annoy me or anger me and you've managed to hit most of them: - People who say that those who discuss wrestling on the Internet are a monolith - People who say that those who discuss wrestling on the Internet only care about "workrate" - People who have this absurd notion not that it takes more than just being mechanically good, which is indisputably true, but rather that being good in the ring is a negative, not a positive - People who only care about size of wrestlers and believe bigger is always better - People who are informed regarding the ugly side of basing an entire business on unnatural size who don't care enough to see wrestling differently

This is something else. Speculation has started that she and her husband faked a marital affair in order to land a reality show. Fascinating article linked below. http://jezebel.com/did-tori-spelling-fake-a-cheating-scandal-to-land-a-new-1566619409/all

Interesting note from the WON: While Daniel Bryan is now the number two merchandise seller in WWE, Cena still sells FIVE TIMES as much merchandise as Bryan. Something has to give with those numbers before a Cena heel turn is a plausible idea. Also, it's taken this long for Rey's numbers to finally start falling.

I honestly think even though the match is tired he would be better off beating Orton on PPV again than Sheamus. Sheamus as an opponent makes him seem like a glorified upper midcarder as champion. Even Cesaro does in some ways honestly. Batista, Orton and Bray Wyatt should be the opponents, but I don't know how they logically could be. It's a dilemma.

Ok, whatever the last PPV is before Summerslam is when Cesaro would face him. I honestly don't know who should face him between now and then.

Just dropping this here. This is how I'd get to Summerslam if it were up to me. Where I'm puzzled is with Bryan's opponent at Payback. That's the only blank spot in this: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/26243-wwe-world-title-picture-for-the-next-few-months/

At Extreme Rules, The Shield destroys Evolution. Bryan retains against Kane. The next night, no one knows where Batista is. He took the fall and they haven't seen him since. Randy Orton isn't much help on his own. HHH is embarrassed. He's talking to Stephanie later in the show. HHH: "You know what we have to do, right?" Stephanie: "What?" HHH: "We have to go talk to HIM." Stephanie: "Who? ... OH, YOU'VE GOTTA BE KIDDING. No way! Not him!" HHH: "It's our best shot of regaining control of what's going on around here." Stephanie reluctantly agrees. *** The next week, HHH and Stephanie meet with Paul Heyman. Stephanie can barely hide her disgust. Heyman realizes he is in a good position and gloats past the point of being obnoxious. Heyman: "Wait, there's something YOU want from ME? There's something little Paul Heyman can do for the McMahons. Well Stephanie, it took you long enough." Stephanie: "You know, my father ..." HHH: "... has always admired you." Anyway, HHH says he wants Heyman to bring in Brock Lesnar to take out Daniel Bryan. Heyman laughs them off and points out that earlier this year, Brock wanted a championship match and they told him no, so it's funny that now they are offering him one. The answer is NO. Brock Lesnar will come back when he wants. *** HHH and Stephanie return the next week and ask again. They make a new offer. This plays out over another week or two while Heyman gets a laundry list of insane perks and concessions in order to bring Brock back. Finally, he agrees to do it. HHH and Stephanie are elated. Heyman's final demand, however, is to get Cesaro into a championship match with Daniel Bryan at Money In The Bank. HHH and Stephanie don't understand how Cesaro factors into this. They wanted Brock, not Cesaro. Heyman as condescendingly as possible explains to them that it makes sense not to just bring Brock Lesnar back, but to set the table for him to ensure that he comes back into a winning situation. The next week, a series of training vignettes start with Heyman and Cesaro. Cesaro is a beast in the gym doing all sorts of insane strength workouts. Heyman point blank tells Cesaro he doesn't want him to win the championship. He wants him to hurt Daniel Bryan. However, if he gets a chance to win the championship, of course he should take it. Heyman also tells him this match isn't about showing off. It's about taking out Daniel Bryan. Therefore, NO GIANT SWING. This leads to a match where Cesaro can have him in perfect position to do a giant swing many times. The crowd practically begs him to do it, but he won't. Finally, Bryan rallies a comeback and it looks like the plan is going to go awry. However, Cesaro ends up doing what he feels is right, does a giant swing and wrestles the match his way. He ends up losing a classic match but puts forth an amazing effort. Heyman is furious. From there, you can do a slow burn to a full-fledged Cesaro face turn and Cesaro vs Brock match. Brock can also return and go right into the match with Daniel Bryan at Summerslam.

Not particularly.

I'm not saying he's not in good shape. I'm just saying I think he's too old. He could probably do it physically, but I still think he's too old to be in the ring. When people talk about the interest that would be there, I just sadly don't believe them. Maybe he could do an annual Rumble spot like Kevin Nash, but I don't see it beyond that. I can be convinced but I'm skeptical that his name even means more than that of someone like Kevin Nash.

He is a relatable everyman who is humble and doesn't quit regardless of the odds against him. I agree that some adjustments are necessary as champion but I am not ready to criticize WWE for it or make doomsday predictions until they get a fair shot to show us how they plan to present him as champion. Maybe he has lost some momentum. We'll know when he is on TV every week again.

Coffey, you just described his entire character. Whether you like it or not, it works and it's over. The look is a large part of why he's over. Also, I guess a lot of people didn't see the really good promo on the pre-WM RAW post game show building up Mania. What is Batista's character? What is Randy Orton's? And if size matters to any wrestling fans in 2014, they are horrible people that are the reasons wrestlers die young, so fuck them.

I think Sting is way too old for even one match. People have wrestled at that age but usually they were elite workers when they were younger.

STING IS 55 YEARS OLD. Anyway ... Daniel Bryan isn't just a "great worker". He is a complete character. He's a good promo. He's a strong babyface. That's what got him over more than his ring work, which has always been there.