Loss

Misawa vs Taue from 9/10/95 is another pick for me. We had it out in the '95 Yearbook thread over the match, but in short, I think working over two body parts at the same time makes for a cloudy narrative.

The setup for Kevin Nash's 1190 Moonbomb?

Whether steroids are the direct cause of death or not, the bigger point is that steroid use in a competitive environment makes some who probably don't want to take steroids feel like they have to in order to stay employed, much less stay competitive. And use of illegal drugs should not be a prerequisite for holding a job. People inside the wrestling bubble see hugely muscled up guys and think credibility and mainstream acceptance. People outside the bubble think drug addict and neanderthal when they see bodies like that. If anything, I think the big muscled up bodies are one of the things (many things) that keep wrestling a sideshow thing.

Not having the hardware is a valid point. WWE should do a cross promotional deal with Roku or one of the gaming consoles. Maybe include a promotional code for 50% the network with the purchase of a gaming console or other device. The number of PPV buyers is higher than I expected simply because I don't understand $9.99 for something versus $70.00 for something. That alone seems like it should be enough to sway everyone to the network, but I realize not everyone thinks like me. Anarchist, Dave still gets letters posted on his site from people claiming they don't want to watch the network on their phones or tablets. There have been multiple reports of people calling cable companies asking about the WWE Network as well. Don't underestimate fan education. I knew people who watched wrestling every week during the Attitude Era that didn't know which Hardy Boy was which, didn't know the announcers had names, didn't know until I told them when Raw switched from USA to TNN despite it being mentioned many times, among other things. You'll never go broke underestimating how much people who watch wrestling actually pay attention to it. I'm with jdw that doing those live ringside spots with Cole, Lawler and JBL is dumb. They should have a better produced pre-taped spot. What I see as good news from all of this is that fan education is something that can be changed, the way the network is being promoted is something that can be improved, and 400,000 traditional buys is an indicator that the network hasn't hit the ceiling, despite the doomsday predictions of those who thought "Well, they offered Wrestlemania and still only got 667,000, so this is the best they can do." It's clearly not. I don't know if they are going to hit the 1 million number by the end of the year or not, and I don't know that those 400,000 are necessarily easy converts. This is uncharted territory. But I think it's a good indicator that there is still potential for growth. If they haven't already, I suspect WWE will hire a lobbyist to push the expanded broadband access legislation that's been lingering in Congress forever. I also really think they need to find a way to survey the people who bought the PPV. We can all make assumptions on why those 400,000 bought the show, but WWE needs to find a way to hear it from them directly, which shouldn't be too hard.

If he didn't get over by accident and the long-term planning was more clear, I suspect he and Brie would have married when he was out for two weeks selling injuries before Mania.

900K.

Even if someone is only interested in watching Wrestlemania, they still come out ahead subscribing to the network. That's what I don't understand. Broadband access is an issue, but I think the bigger issue is fan education. It literally makes zero sense to pay six times as much for the exact same thing simply because you don't want as much of it.

Looks like they did about 400,000 buys. I'm curious how this will be spun, but I see this as a big positive for WWE because it shows there are still quite a few potential customers that haven't jumped on board yet. Also, between the network and traditional PPV, they set a domestic record -- first time they've exceeded 1 million viewers. I don't know what kind of data WWE gets from the cable companies other than the raw numbers, but if there's a way for them to get names, offering a free month of the network to anyone who bought the PPV traditionally and is willing to answer questions might be a worthwhile venture.

How could we use Jim Ross phrases to describe Jim Ross? I'll try. One finds that many podcast hosts in today's marketplace are more concerned with getting "clever" lines in than having conversations that interest the listener and maximizing their minutes. This needless behavior is antagonistic from where I sit. But that's just one Okie's opinion.

Typical passive aggressive Jim Ross. If he feels that strongly about today's heels, then he should name names and point to specific segments and examples.

Didn't Shawn lose that rep with his post-comeback stuff? Not saying that I disagree with you, but I thought the Shawn Show reference was mostly directed to his 90s bumping. I don't know that he ever really had that rep to be honest, except maybe with niche of niche hardcore fans like us. It's how I've typically seen him as a worker. But even post-comeback, it's hard to think of anyone he made by working with them, aside from maybe Jericho in 2008.

I will say that Dave seems to think Bryan being pushed in a semi-main spot at Extreme Rules is an indicator that WWE sees him as a Chris Benoit-like champ. I don't agree with that takeaway at all. Bryan is more over than Benoit was at any point in his career, to a point where I feel like his match will usually be perceived as the main event by most fans, even if it's not in that spot. I wish they had something better for him than another Kane match, but I also don't think it's the end of the world. Bryan is also the centerpiece of Extreme Rules promotion and the "There's no WWE without you" campaign, and they did too much to put him over to just say he's getting his moment but they aren't going to build around him. He's also sort of proven at this point that whether WWE wants to or not, they pretty much have to push him strong because if they don't, fans will wreck whatever other plans they have.

That is spot on. The Usos attempting a save, even if they went down in flames, would have been good for them. So far, we keep seeing them get attacked, only to not cut any promos vowing revenge, and they come out the next week doing their typical happy-go-lucky entrance and same high flying spots. At what point do they get to react? I realize it's been all of two RAWs since their problems started with Orton and Batista, so that could still happen. So if it does, great.

Bray beat Bryan at the Rumble, so I'd say Bray won that feud, unless you mean that Bryan became champion and conquered the odds, so in the end, he won in the big picture.

It's interesting how many people you don't hear within wrestling saying, at least publicly, that Shawn was all about putting on The Shawn Show and making himself look good. Is it lost on them or do they just not say it out of respect? I think he's probably more talented in some ways than Flair in putting on a show, but he doesn't have the Flair rep of people coming out of programs with him looking better than they did going in almost every time.

I stand corrected, and I suppose it's not so farfetched to mention it. I guess they just stopped showing them on camera together for whatever reason.

Were those in late 2013? I don't recall any of that.

I think Vince clearly sees contracts as a way to lure talent, but doesn't really view them as something he has to honor if the wind blows in another direction. He's proven that many times. Especially during this time frame, a contract offer was simply a way to get someone he wanted at that moment in the door. The details of it were just noise.

When has it been played up? I have watched every piece of WWE TV this year and I've never seen them on camera on Raw or Smackdown at the same time.

Well, let's talk about that. How do you answer the question to people who were at those house shows? Factor in the universe on Total Divas which is one thing, the universe on Raw and Smackdown which is one thing, the universe on house shows which is one thing, the universe in NXT which is one thing and the universe in special things like the Daniel Bryan documentary, and you have a lot of the same people showing themselves in different ways in different universes. Hell, add in WWE.com and WWE Magazine, which I'm sure has some differences as well. If it's confusing for us, I'm sure it's confusing for casual viewers. I think it's asking too much of fans to understand that each "universe" exists separately. They should be consistent across all of those platforms, and if that's not the WWE way, then it probably should be the WWE way. I realize WWE produces a ton of first run content and that keeping it all consistent has to be a major undertaking, but maybe it's time to consider it. If I catch Miz on the RAW pre-show, the Daniel Bryan documentary, RAW and a house show, I might see four personalities.

Also, I know it's nitpicking, but I like nitpicking wrestling. The perception is sometimes that it's me being overly critical or negative, but I just believe even the best stuff can always be better and it's not coming from a bad place. I nitpick wrestling I love to death anyway. It's the fun of posting on a message board -- getting into the minutiae. So that said ... being so honest about why Daniel Bryan wasn't on the show was a little odd. I realize there's a reality show devoted to his relationship with Brie Bella, but I think they made too big of a deal of him not being on the show last night. I'd almost rather that they didn't explain at all. That shouldn't be taken as me saying they are undercutting him or anything like that. I am just saying that personally, I would have just not acknowledged that he wasn't there. The relationship is a storyline thing on Total Divas, but it hasn't been played up on regular TV.

I don't think Sandow was cookie cutter at all. I think coming out in a t-shirt and cutting promos complaining about his spot like he's The Miz makes him cookie cutter, but he had a workable persona and the Cena match from last fall shows that he could work at the top level. When he first showed up, he was working a lot of holds and playing the elitist thing more. It's really a gimmick that needs lots of mic time to make it work, which he hasn't gotten. I suppose a direction is better than no direction, but I still think Sandow has potential. Maybe there's a more contemporary way to play that angle, but I feel like they could work that type of intellectual superiority gimmick into a populist show fueled by Daniel Bryan pretty easily. Last week was exceptional, but Raw has been really hot for months now. I agree that I'm not sold on the long-term direction, but I don't expect them to sustain the level they did last week. I do expect them to sustain the momentum they had going into Wrestlemania. What concerns me is that the hot feuds like HHH vs Daniel Bryan seem to be ending while cold feuds like John Cena vs The Wyatt Family are the ones still going. But they've done so much right since the Royal Rumble that one show that was missing their top star isn't enough for me to give up or anything like that. I don't want to overreact about what last night's show meant in the big picture, but I don't want to pretend that it was a better show than it was either. This. Bryan vs Batista was the best option for Extreme Rules, which makes Bryan not tapping Orton at Mania a little puzzling. I don't really get protecting either guy at this point on top as a singles heel. It's true to Cena's character, yes. But people hate Cena's character for the most part -- even people like me who like him otherwise. The Wyatts aren't "ruined", but a segment like that doesn't help them at all. I'm not stunned that people are acting like a bunch of hand wringing washer women who seem to can't wait to be disappointed, while all signs are pointing to a continuation of old vs new where the new are going to win. I'm hoping in a few months we're at a point where the direction is new vs new where the new are going to win. I doubt it also. If they do it on RAW, the only other option would be an 8-man tag at Extreme Rules, with HHH dropping the fall to Bryan again. I don't expect that to happen, but I think it would be a better direction than Bryan vs Kane. First, WM30 signaled a new era, so I think a lot of us were hopeful that a lot of that crap was in the past now. Second, I don't expect a show at the level of last week's every single week. I just don't want them to squander the momentum they had going into and coming out of Wrestlemania. This was a placeholder show for the most part, so we'll see.

I think the issue more than health risks of the people doing the drugs is the perception of what a normal body looks like that it creates among wrestling fans. It makes it almost impossible for guys who want to stay clean to compete for spots. The end result is that wrestlers who would prefer to stay clean end up having to cycle as well, if only so they can stay competitive.

This for sure.