Loss

Apple TV users: The WWE Network is there. Just restart.

I think we'd all love for these issues with site crashing and buffering not to be happening, but I think it's a good sign for the long-term success of the network that demand is so high that within an hour of making it available on a Monday morning, they are having problems like this.

The site is going extremely slow. Every page is timing out.

Is it going really slow for anyone else? I waited five minutes for a show to open and it never did. Finally, I was redirected to the home page.

I could actually see Bray going over simply because they are short on heels after Wrestlemania. I would hope they aren't going to keep running with Orton in that top heel spot. They might, but I for some reason don't think they will. I guess Batista's turn is the trump card too.

Yeah, I signed up with no problems too.

I would like to see things eventually get to a point where they are able to show up without the sound effect. Feels like overkill.

I was actually going to throw that question to everyone -- do you think Bray has proved over the last two months that he belongs at that level?

I wondered that too. He didn't seem to have the drug issues yet at that point, but for whatever reason, Vince didn't seem interested in using him as a real main event guy.

As someone who has done customer service work for major tech initiatives or rollouts in the past, I will kindly request that if you speak to someone in the call center, please be nice. They are likely having a stressful day.

Well, when the show is available on the Network (which I think can't happen for a few weeks if I remember right), I want to watch both matches again and if I was crazy tonight, I'm happy to say so. I do think the conversation comparing the best matches in WWE to the best matches in other highly regarded time periods is an interesting one that is probably worth continuing. Right now, I'm thinking ****1/2 for the six-man and ****3/4 for the Chamber. There aren't any shows in 1989 NWA that I think have two matches at that level.

It sounds like it probably won't hit that level for you, based on what others have said. I appreciate that you respect my opinion and I definitely wasn't intending to be hyperbolic. But man ... Mid South Wrestling and JCP are considered the golden age standard bearer promotions for hardcore fans. And neither of them had matches at the level of the top two matches on this show regularly. I mean, I have seen about a half-dozen matches this year in WWE that have knocked my socks off, and there is still some highly regarded stuff I missed and need to check out. So if we're in another golden age now, I suppose we should be a little happier about what we're watching, booking that ranges from decent to mind numbing at times be damned.

If the point is that when I catch up on all things WWE from 2011-2013, there is no way I'll see this match at the level I currently do, then I can accept that. We'll see if that's the case when I do catch up. But if that's the case, it makes me wonder if WWE so far this decade has had the best in-ring run of any promotion in history except for 90s All Japan. Is that a ridiculous case to make? I don't see anyone making that case, though. If this is a fairly common standard for high-end matches, that's a very, very high standard to maintain. My hats off to WWE if they're able to do it more often than not. It's exciting that great matches are that plentiful in the modern scene. About a decade ago when I started fading out of following everything week-to-week, that wasn't the case at all. And while Dylan praised 2010-2011 WWE immensely at the time, it didn't seem like there was a larger movement. So if that's indeed true, I'm puzzled because it seems like something everyone would be excited about.

I'm actually surprised that it's viewed as a disconnect. I've spent most of my viewing time trekking through the 1990s the last few years, looking at all promotions globally during that time. And multi-person matches worked like that were all the rage in the 1990s (and 1980s) when they were worked in New Japan or JWP. This match reminded me in some ways of those -- not necessarily as high end, but wrestled in the same spirit where the mindset is just to nod to history, keep the action going and provide a long series of emotional payoffs back to back. Those types of matches used to be the types that people looked to fondly and in a special way, so I'm not sure how this is any different. Yes, I have viewing gaps the last few years, but I'm interested in how what we consider special and something that stands out from the pack has changed. This exact same match happening on a WWF show in 1994 would be iconic and something we still discuss fondly 20 years later.

I'm asking you what better matches have happened this year and you refuse to answer. But I am happy to elaborate. I mentioned the pacing before. There seriously wasn't a dull moment in the match. I realize that each guy got his own individual down time throughout the match, but the way they structured the match meant the overall effect was a pretty frenetic pace. And not just frenetic pace for the sake of frenetic pacing -- I really felt like there was a logical progression from moment to moment. The great thing about War Games in the 80s was that it was a series of heel beatdowns followed by babyface saves over and over. Call that the standard NWA emotional climax, since those moments always tended to be pretty heated when they happened outside of War Games. This felt like the modern equivalent, just a nonstop barrage of back-to-back standard emotional climaxes in big WWE matches where the tide turns and they start going to the finishing stretch. The match felt like a gigantic WWE main event finishing stretch from start to finish. Add in that I was impressed at how Cena and Cesaro managed to work such excellent sequences without repeating anything from their RAW match. Add in that I loved the Orton/Sheamus brogue kick thing, because Orton thought he had outsmarted everyone. He had, but he also outsmarted himself. Add in the awesome stuff with Daniel Bryan and the selling of his injured shoulder. Add in the way they positioned Cesaro as ready to hang with the top guys. Add in that Christian was really the perfect utility player for a match like this because he can bring the action and he doesn't need to be protected. Add in the sense of history in the final four moment where they nodded to the Cena/Cesaro, Bryan/Orton and Cena/Bryan rivalries with just a few simple overtures. So yes, I would rank it that high. And yes, whether you really are an asshole or not, that post resembled someone incapable of civil discourse when they see something they don't agree with.

Then what is? There is still some stuff I need to catch up on, so I'll make it a point to check it out when I'm done taking drugs.

The Real North Americans?

No, and please don't insult me. Tell me why I'm wrong if you think I am, but don't troll like that.

That was what was reported at the time, yes, but WCW booked week-to-week, so they may have just forgotten this was the plan at one point. Plus, Bret Hart got really cold, which wasn't his fault, but he did.

They overbooked the eliminations of Cena and Bryan way too much for my tastes, but the result wasn't really a surprise to me, and this match was pretty incredible. The pacing was insane, like 80s New Japan on steroids. I would probably put it in the top two or three matches in the history of the company even with the Kane and Wyatts crap. I feel bad for that crowd, though. The finish shocked them into silence.

Cesaro is figuring into this way more than he would have had the Orton and Cena matches not happened. I love it.

I just had the thought watching this that as much as I long for the old days sometimes, these guys are really good at what they do and wrestling is always going to be okay.

These dense questions Michael Cole is asking ...

If there's a positive from it, it's that the heat is on a wrestler more than the promotion. I think there's some on the promotion also, but still ... there's a lot on Batista. There's at least something they can do with that if they choose to do something with that.

I know that.