Bix

Bumping since a new HIV shutdown story is all over the mainstream media.

John McAdam under a pseudonym Re: Halloween Havoc '90:

In the '80s: - Time limit draws ending with the heel getting a visual fall. - The standard SNME opener layout with the chase spot. Nowadays: - Babyface getting sent to the floor signals a commercial break.

Like people who make up mythical surveys and consensuses to be negative about Jerry Lawler and Memphis wrestling?

Yeah. On the lower end you need something like a Sima Go-DVD, but I don't think they're made anymore. On the higher end, any time base corrector will do it. In between there are other things that defeat more forms of protection, like the Grex. There might be some more Europe-specific devices with SCART connections, too.

For VHS to DVD?

Also, Lawler-Idol/Rich was WON Feud of the Year in '87, the same year that CWA live on WMC TV won Best Wrestling Television Show and Lance Russell picked up his last of 4 consecutive Best TV Announcer wins. As far as the whole Lawler praise as "anti-smark" thing goes in general terms, Lawler was a staple of early indy supershow & indy dream match booking in Joel Goodheart's TWA, the Coraluzzo/Sharpe WWA, and later in Coraluzzo's NWA, as well as taking his Memphis & Texas feuds on the road to TWA & WWA in 90-'92, for starters. I could dig through WONs or John McAdam's tape list for more about how the newsletter reader consensus was in his and Memphis's favor forever (Seriously, you do realize that this stuff has been heavily praised forever, right? Liking Memphis wrestling isn't something invented by Dylan, Phil, S.L.L., and myself), but whatever...

The latter two sound like a bit of a stretch. He was a Power Plant trainer at one point, wasn't he?

In fairness to Geno, Meltzer's also treating it is news, and if you're not a "message board veteran" you wouldn't know Sullivan's track record. Plus, Sullivan was involved with that Foley sitcom deal which was apparently legitimate until the latter pulled out, and Irv is a smart enough guy that he wouldn't have made a stupid deal. I probably would've done my own post about it if Geno didn't, albeit in a more cynical tone. Also: I get it. But seriously, we're not prominent enough to deserve our own thread and we're above trolling here when it doesn't involve Resident Evil or smkelly.

Someone remind me why Dave briefly gave him a column in the actual WON years ago.

I think he meant Japan Supershow I, which was called "Starrcade '91 In The Tokyo Dome" in Japan.

I was typing my reply while you posted that and saw it after. To make things easier, here's the link to the new thread. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=10623

I like DVDVR but let's be honost. It's well known to be the home of anti smarks and followers. It's contrarian to the max to the point where it is often made fun of at other boards. And I never paid any attention to that poll since I didn't care besides voting for Savage who I thought was awesome in Memphis. His speed, body language, intensity, promos, presence and punches were the best. You voted in the poll for Savage's matches without watching anything? It doesn't matter where they occur. It's still horrible. And I don't think that Memphis was full of guys with terrible punches. Savage for instance had awesome punches. At least 2 of your pet peeves about the style/territory at large were "X thing with crappy punches." And if this stuff bothers you so much, why are you only complaining about it when Memphis comes up? You have something against Misawa's wrestling ability? Why? Guy was fantasticHe was. He also used forearm strikes a lot. So? Big deal. It wasn't part of his regular like arsenal like Lawler's was. The move is one of the nonsensical moves in wrestling historyYes, so much more nonsensical than the Franksteiner. It all depends. I am usually a fan of guys who take big bumps.So why don't you like Lawler's big bumps? ? Don't know why you find that funny but Memphis style takes way less thought to do and as a result it is not as satisying to watch. I like matches where I can see the wreslers thinking and achieving.Thinking and achieving what? If you honostly do not think that people hold Bruce Lee fights and Piper vs David in They Live in higher regard than 99% of movie/TV fights out there than I do not what to say. They Live's fight is tributed and talked about to this day as one of the best, most realistic ever. Bruce Lee as everyone knows is beloved by all. Once again, people tribute Lee all the time. He is a legend. You can't contrarian yourself out of this one. The difference between Lee and other fights is roughly the equivalent of Japanese wrestling to Memphis. The fight in They Live is generally considered ridiculous and overly long. Everyone loves Bruce Lee but not because he's "realistic." I love Jackie Chan, too, but he sure isn't "realistic." Yeah, you have brainwashed yourself to a degree in believing that. It doesn't say much about the viewers of Lawler if they can be so easily duped into believing what he is doing and letting themselves get emotionally tied to it. Lawler comes off as a dangerous phony conman in real life .I've seen one f the Lawler vs Dundee matches. Dundee intrigued me enough to want to see more of him. Wait,2 I actually watched because I watched their match from a year or 2 ago which maybe the worse wrestling match I have ever seen. I didn't blame them for it though because of their age and the match structure. I have seen Kobashi, Kawada and Misawa along with tons of others have a million matches better than Lawler vs Dundee.Most wrestlers come off as dangerous phony conmen in real life. You know how people give auras or vibes? Lawler is one that likes sexually underage kids or childeren which has been proven by commentary. His overall phoniness with everything has been exposed there too. Maybe Lawler doesn't sexually abuse children, maybe he does. I don't know but I do know he gives off that same vibe that I feel from others who I know are sexually evil.There are lots of wrestlers who have done "sexually evil" things, including some of your favorites (going just by well-known stories, there's that flight where multiple WWE wrestlers including Shawn Michaels drugged and molested a young woman and Neidhart/Davey Boy drugging and raping their wives). Lawler's the only one who happens to have done a pervy old man gimmick.

Dammit Dylan, I was going to break out a "Masked character based on a popular franchise vs drug addict" comparison with Freddy vs Landel.

I'd have to find my Memphis '93 DVDs but the house show matches that did show up on TV were incredibly clipped up at that point. By the way, guess what territory was looked down on as much as, if not more than Memphis within the business. All of these are staples of the north of Mexico North American wrestling. #6 is the concept of feeding, which I'm pretty sure is done everywhere in wrestling. You're still yet to give any explanation why you're the only person to think that the territory full of guys that literally everyone else watching thinks is full of guys throwing the best working punches in wrestling was actually full of guys with terrible punches. Not actually true, but still: MI-SA-WA! MI-SA-WA! I have seen Owen Hart do this in Calgary and I'm pretty sure there may even be a photo floating around. I thought you liked guys who take big bumps. I thought you liked swandive headbutts and somersault sentons. Again, stalling was throughout "American" wrestling and a reliable way to get heat if done well. Now you're definitely trolling. You hate Memphis style because it uses common American wrestling tropes? Granted, you grew up on Stampede during the Dynamite era, where they added the card system, and it allowed minor infractions to happen in front of the ref, but c'mon now. Blah blah American wrestling trope. What, no "Lance Russell was a crappy announcer who's far inferior to Ed Whalen"? Who if he wants to can wrestle your style of match better than any of your favs. And in his defense of ur roid accusation, he has no obvious signs of steroids that so many other wrestlers do. Is he on or isn't he? I don't know but there's no obvious signs. Where are these alleged Davey Richards Memphis style matches? And he may have been referring to Richards' style of work, which is definitely that of "jacked up roid headed midgets that don't sell anything" even if he isn't on the gas himself. "LUKE IS ANGRY!!!!" The same way any movie/Tv fight is more phony than Roddy Piper/Keith David in They Live or a Bruce Lee fight. Ask anyone what they think is phoniest. You know what the answer is. It's the same thing with Memphis wrestling.Another mythical survey! Awesome! You judge wrestling by how it effects its audience -- yes that's true --- but you also judge it by how it effects you. You can also judge how it will fare among people who don't watch it or among wrestling fans who watch different styles.Didn't the DVDVR Memphis '80s poll do that? There was exactly one person among dozens posting who wasn't crazy about it. I think Memphis because of its phoniness hurt its growth potential to go beyond what they had. I also think that they would have troubles in other markets outside of Memphis because of this. Yes they got some heat and kudos to them for it but I think they handcuffed themselves as well.You do realize they ran other markets besides Memphis, right? Louisville, Lexington, Evansville, Nashville, etc. Also, Dallas switching to Memphis style wrestling and booking after the Jarrett buyout helped pop the territory in '88-'89. The first sellout of the Sportatorium in several years was with Tojo Yamamoto and Phil Hickerson as top heels. Where else exactly were they expected to grow to? They were a territory, and the one territory that was able to outlive the rest by many years. Jarrett bought Dallas after working with them for months and even after the USWA "merger" a year later, it wasn't really the same territory as Dallas became the priority with Memphis often using a skeleton crew. I feel sorry for you here. You have no natural instinct to warn yourself of sexual predators or people that just come off as phony in life. Your mind and emotions also can't seem to comprehend what makes Lawler vs Dundee so incredible for me and the fans back than. You're missing out and I feel bad for you over that. It is legit one of the best matches ever. 2010 eyes!

Who are these "so many fans"? On boards where I've seen Memphis come up, I can count the posters who dislike it with one hand and still have fingers left over.

Sapolsky's on the record as hating Memphis style wrestling.

And Bryan Alvarez thinks that the flat-back bumps are not a problem.

These go hand in hand. The women are having trouble getting indy bookings because TNA is charging much more than most promoterswill pay so as to get the booking fee. You'd think that the TV exposure would help them get indy bookings, gigs doing empty arena headscissor videos, etc, but the cost is prohibitive. Plus, we're seeing wrestlers stay off house show tours because they're not making enough to cover their expenses, and really, nobody in a national promotion should need to have a day job. Hell, there's at least a handful of indy wrestlers who do well enough that they don't need day jobs. Not in a national promotion. WWE always pays for medical costs associated with on the job injuries. WCW did. Jamie Noble's WWE firing several years ago came from attempting to take that as far as possible by claiming that the cyst/abcess/whatever he got from shooting steroids was a work-related injury.

Ah yes, that was it.

Vye did a really good FanPost at Cageside going over the TNA talent mistreatment issues.

Dave started an MMA HOF that mysteriously disappeared when the UFC HOF started up.

Right, I don't mean big crowd vs small crowd, I mean live crowd vs camera. I was 6th row ringside and it was clear that it was a problem. IIRC a lot of the FCW training is geared towards working for the camera. A lot of the performances on the show would've come off much better on TV. I've liked Ziggler, Del Rio, Swagger, Slater, and Gabriel on TV (and sometimes Rhodes and McIntyre), but they were terribly bland in a house show environment even though they were not doing anything worse.

WWE Bret Hart Appreciation Night at Madison Square Garden report (Or "Why do so few wrestlers know how to work house show style?")