Bix

At least the sense of entitlement and righteous indignation from older newsletter days is mostly gone (ROH fans still had it a little bit, but thankfully ROH is dying), from Dave Meltzer wishing death on Andre & Studd because their workrate is inferior to Steve Sims saying that he doesn't care that Bobby Eaton has a family to support and should've quit WCW w/ Lane and Eaton to Mark Madden's column after Herd fired Flair where he's all "I GUESS YOU DON'T VALUE HARD WORK AND DEDICATION!" while calling Dusty fat several times.

I don't even get the analogy...is he saying that the MTV awards stuff was a work? That Kanye went into business for himself to build a money drawing angle based around him as top heel? That he had an interest in Beyonce passing the torch as top babyface to Swift? Also: Yeah, dude. Totally.

The Snowman was the last in the line of title continuity problems before Jarrett pulled out of Dallas. He was a journeyman jacked up black dude who had been one of Bill Watts' failed mid-'80s projects who had worked for Jarrett in Memphis a few times. In 1990, he was working outlaw shows and going around black neighborhoods in Memphis about how the USWA wouldn't hire him because he was black, and Jarrett decided to use it for a shoot angle that would turn Lawler back face. Snowman interrupted a WMC taping, aired his complaints, and got a match with Lawler. They had a program that included special ref Leon Spinks turning heel to help him, Norvell Austin's brother coming on TV to go over the plight of black wrestlers, and Snowman winning the Unified Title (which, of course, didn't unify anything for more than 2 weeks due to the AWA split, was still called that for the next 8.5 years). Not long into his title reign, Snowman quit and took the new Unified belt with him. Snowman hadn't been announced as champion on any of the Dallas-based shows, the same treatment that befell former champions King Cobra, Master of Pain, Soultaker, and Jimmy Valiant. On the TV shows in and around Memphis, Eddie Marlin told the truth and even speculated that Snowman may have pawned the belt to buy crack! On the nationally syndicated show, Snowman (suddenly champion after not being what had been Dallas-based TV) was injured and unable to defend the title within thirty days.

At the beginning of both WCW runs he'd do some fun lucha-style matwork in addition to flying moves that were impressive for a guy of his build. Even after he turned heel and joined the Dungeon of Doom, he'd have good matches when in with his friends like Super Calo. It seemed like try less and less as he got more over. He said in his '94 Torch Talk that he didn't do as much as he could because he was already over like crazy and there was no point to him in doing it.

Harris. He's a vastly underrated performer and it's too bad that there's not more of the original Lawler feud around. They did have a fantastic match in the studio in '91, though. Brunzell was better, and even he wasn't overall, I'd still pick him because he never had a regular finisher that he couldn't execute properly like Blair did with the Scorpion Deathlock. Brunzell's soul patch nowadays is pretty creepy though.

That'll be discussed more in-depth in the GWF article (since I'm using the introduction of Olu Oliami in late 1990 as the cutoff point between the two), but to answer the querstion: It was just a deal for the name and theme song, so Kevin could get a little money and keep the name alive. They never ran Texas and never used any Texas talent other then Kevin Von Erich's one match.

Well, now we know where Dave got the idea, since Terry Funk was also the source of "Jumbo is lazy." I love Terry Funk, but... Oh, and if we're talking about intentional bad performances, then Owen Hart did that regularly, too, and he's not faulted for it. Maybe it's different if they have an intentional bad match specifically because they know Dave is watching...

The only negative that he ever really harps on is "When he wanted to be bad, he was absolutely terrible." I'm not even sure how true that is. J.J. Dillon said that Murdoch "liked to clown around" and that kept him from getting NWA World Title consideration, but that's the only time I've ever seen someone mention it. On WOR, Cornette seemed to think it was more that you needed to give him motivation at times to go out and be the Dick Murdoch everyone loves, but again, how is that different from the criticism that Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels took the night off at house shows? That didn't hurt them as HOFers. How many of these alleged house show stinkers would Dave have seen? He wouldn't have seen Murdoch regularly in the US (specified since he always talked about how Murdoch in Japan was a different wrestler) aside from: - Hs WWF run, where his televised house show matches at least usually featured strong performances from him. - The taped Mid-South house show matches where he wasn't dogging it at all (and a melted tape featured what his friend Joel Watts called the greatest match he'd ever seen in the Flair-Murdoch hour broadway) - His Crockett/WCW runs, where Dave probably wouldn't have seen him regularly until the whole "NWA Deadhead" period at the end of the '80s, where he still wasn't seeing a ton of house shows. - Murdoch's indy dates in '90-'92, which were solid matches, including a tremendous match with Funk in the USWA Unified Title tournament Is this the American "Jumbo was lazy" to a degree? The worst performances on tape aren't close to as bad as Dave makes Murdoch's "stinkers" out to be, and the way Dillon (who worked with Murdoch as much as anyone) described it, it sounded more like he would often rely on comedy shtick, which is a lot different.

Thanks for all the feedback! Observer covering the show has it as sold out w/ 3,000 fans. From the TV footage, it definitely looks more packed than it had been in awhile. I should have clarified a little better here. The tickets were cheap and the only shows promoted by Jarrett were Friday nights with cheap tickets and the free Saturday morning shows. Chris Adams promoted the spot shows on his own and there weren't a lot of them. The Friday shows, as best as I can interpret from the Observers, were not drawing well until the Chris/Toni-Austin/Jeannie feud popped the territory in the Summer, but due to low ticket prices, a healthy crowd still meant a relatively low gate. Adams/Toni-Austin/Jeannie was #3 in the WON feud of the year voting, plus USWA Challenge was #5 and USWA Championship Wrestling (WMC) was #6 in best TV show voting. The shows could be uneven at times, but there was plenty of good stuff and the teacher and wife vs student and teacher's ex-wife feud was always fun. They didn't really have an on-air excuse for the shows suddenly moving out of Dallas with half the roster replace and the hottest program gone. As far as tapes & DVDs, there're some circulating. Most commongly, the first 13 episodes of USWA Challenge are circulating from ESPN Canada airings (if more aired, they're not floating around), the 52 disc "Ultimate WCCW set" has a bunch of late WCCW mixed in it, and the Savoldi Classic Superstars of Wrestling/Slams & Jams/etc shows and DVDs are all full of stuff from this period, including a Jarrett DVD that's very good. Also: - romdam at Crazy Max has a lot, and I should try to work out a trade with him when I have a fully functional duplicator again. - I'm converting all of my USWA Challenge shows. Years ago, a trader was selling tapes from his collection, mostly early '90s TV taped off a C-Band dish, for $2 each. I got some (wish I got more), including a bunch of '89-'90 (mostly '90, including the all 5 Unified Title tournament) USWA Challenge shows re-aired as Legends of USWA on Channel America in '92-'93. - There's a 3 disc set of early '91 stuff in great quality floating around. - When I first started trading, I did a trade with John McAdam, that included me getting his Steve Austin: The Early Years Vol. 3. Last week, I converted my copy and TuCold sent me the DVDs of Vols. 1 & 2 he did without asking for anything in return. Nice set that includes plenty of KTVT footage, mostly in very nice quality. - I have a KTVT tape from earlier in '89 that I should try converting to DVD again now that I have better VCRs, as it had a lot of drop-outs when I did it before. - Most of the 1990 Evansville version of Championship Wrestling (featuring the mixed Michael St. John shows for months) is available in excellent quality. - There's little to no other KTVT footage floating around, and no USWA Main Event footage. McAdam obviously has more KTVT tapes but he's AWOL again. I have never seen USWA Main Event on anyone's tape list, ever (I've seen its replacement, GWF Main Event, but that probably got re-aired in an ESPN slot). I know Wild West wasn't on in a lot of markets, but there are tapes out there from the original airings (what I have includes the WCCW B-Show era and looks like it was taped off a C-Band dish when it was fed out to affiliates) and yet nothing from its replacement, though, in fairness, Wild West was a non-entity at the time of the switch due to the lack of specific tapings for it (Mantell only ran a few over several months) so maybe most people just forgot about it and never looked back. It sounds like an interesting show, and I never even heard of it before reading the (oddly excellent) WCCW article on Wikipedia.

Whoops, thanks. Fixed.

A couple weeks ago, I decided that a fun topic for history pieces on Cageside Seats would be startup promotions. I started with the WXO because well, it's the easiest. I decided to do the GWF next, but I realized that it's a much less complete story without discussing the end of World Class and the early USWA, so I decided to do a [much longer] piece about that first. Please let me know what you think and which promotion you'd like to see next after Global.

Bobby Eaton 1986: #5 1987: #6 1988: #7 1989: #22 1990: #3 Terry Gordy 1986: #6 1987: #30 1988: #23 1989: #26 1990: #28 Rick Rude 1989: #30 1990: #33 Arn Anderson 1986: #46 1987: #35 1988: #12 1989: #11 1990: #19

http://www.thepilot.com/stories/20090911/n...11hardyboy.html http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/10566/ Yeah...

From the 1990 yearbook, Hennig's rankings in the top 100 workers "editorial board" poll from '86-'90: 1986: #59 1987: #12 1988: #24 1989: #12 1990: #5 With the Observer yearbooks gone, was 1991 when the Torch took over the top 100 workers poll?

I'm not saying that the way he's viewed by his peers should necessarily get Rocco in, just that it's a boost that the other Brits on the ballot might not have. Meanwhile, from Kenny McBride posting at WC:

Where does the strip stand as far as his cultural significance?

So he was set to host a kids' show that would include Big Daddy cartoon segments but he quit and they never aired the already-produced cartoon segments.

By the way, before we start talking about Big Daddy's level of mainstream stardom, is the Big Daddy cartoon an urban legend? I've never seen any evidence of it. Was it an animated series, a comic strip, or what?

Rocco's super-highly rated by his peers, worked a style more compatible with what people are familiar with in the US and Japan, and has the "Dynamite stole his heel act and did it on a bigger stage" deal. That probably helps him.

Cornette on WOR Re: the HOF: - He thinks Moolah should be in, just because. - Rey "belongs in without question" but things it's better to wait on sure things to make sure the more overlooked types go in before they fade away, like Hans Schmidt. - Thinks Big Daddy was such a big star that he's a no brainer. Ditto Carlos Colon. - "What's the hold-up with Ole and Gene Anderson?" Thinks it's ridiculous to go by lack of traveling. - Edge: "I think he definitely deserves to be in." - Dave's understanding is that Ivan Koloff was rushed out of the WWWF as soon as possible because they were afraid that having the guy who beat Bruno as a regular would lead to riots. - Thinks Konnan should be in for his accomplishments in Mexico, especially if you're voting in any '90s stars from Mexico. There was more but I kinda stopped caring.

Come on. Benoit was coming from WCW, where he was an over act in major arenas on major national TV shows. Danielson is coming from ROH, an indy that's never drawn more than a little over 2000 fans and has TV on a network that nobody watches except for a small amount of hardcore MMA fans who also have to have the right cable/satellite provider and right kind of TV or cable box (as far as I know, if you don't have an HDTV, the only provider with boxes than can output HD channels to SDTVs is Verizon).

True, but nobody had any chance of popping that specific territory, especially if Brody (the one other guy who seemed to have real drawing power in the area who hadn't grown stale or died) coming in regularly couldn't. As you said...those guys aren't on the ballot. I agree that on that theoretical criteria, he's not the first person who should go in, but they're not on the ballot. As far as the rest of what you said, I'm going to sort of reply indirectly and go off on a tangent: Wrestling is weird. Those who saw Archie Gouldie in Calgary pimp him as an incredible heel with great promos who was one of the territory's three best drawing heels. The vast majority of available footage is long after his prime, where he's still an effective heel with good promos, before turning face and cutting as good a single promo as there's ever been. Yet, somehow, he drew more money in the US as a mute Mongolian who had various managers talking for him than as one of the great promos in the history of the business. I'm not necessarily arguing him as an HOFer, but he is someone who was as good a talker as Crispin Wah was a worker, and yet somehow, outside of a backwoods Canadian mountain territory that most of the wrestling business ignored (aside from making fun of the Harts) until 1986, he was a better draw when he never spoke. Ricky Morton was about a year older than CM Punk is now when he started to be considered a stale old guy. He was still Ricky Morton in the ring and barely a year removed from being a major part of his promotion drawing more paid admissions in 1986 than WWE will in 2009 (think about that), but the business changed right as he found the money making gimmick to harness his talent, which kept him (and Robert Gibson) from being able to switch territories and stay fresh. The "serious" HOF for wrestling models itself after real sports HOF, which creates problems. A lot of the time I think it should be modeled after the Rock & Roll HOF. Take Jim Cornette's induction via fiat in '96, which people tend to look at now as a mistake that should've been The Midnight Express & Jim Cornette given that Cornette's non-MX runs aren't HOF-worthy. So now you have the MX act without Cornette as a candidate, which is a mess since he was as much a member of the team as the wrestlers. Why not allow someone to be voted in as part of more than one "act"? Whether it's the MX & Cornette, Ishingundan, or the Four Horsemen, why not? It's a performance. Hell, why not a feud? They're working together as much as, if not more than tag team partners and stablemates. Why can't The Sheik vs Bobo Brazil, Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee, R&R vs MX, Santo vs Casas, or other legendary feuds be "acts" nominated for the HOF? No, I have no idea what I'm arguing anymore, but I felt like saying it.

For the record, Cox didn't copy me, I stole his Edge talking point from an IM.

First off, to clarify, the WCWA World Title deal is a little bit more complicated than that. Fritz was already booking Flair a lot less in '85 than in previous years because the NWA wouldn't give Kerry another title reign. According to Gary Hart (and this does make a lot of sense), Watts and Ken Mantell urged Fritz to split from the NWA because that would mean that he wouldn't get NWA backup when they double-crossed him and invaded Dallas/Ft. Worth. The problem wasn't Rude as champion. The problem was suddenly dropping NWA ties after stressing how it's the only real world title for years and then suddenly awarding the new world title to the American Champion without a tournament or anything like that. They were already struggling to some degree with Gino Hernandez's death, the 3rd or 4th Von Erichs-Freebirds feud on top, etc, though Parade of Champions still drew a strong crowd of over 24,000 with Rude-Brody as one of the 3 main events along w/ Brody-Gordy and the zillions Freebirds-Von Erichs match And then Watts raided most of the key talent. And then Kerry had his motorcycle accident. The title didn't become a total joke until Adams left and they decided to put it on Black Bart of all people via phantom win. Anyway, I don't think Rude should be blamed for any of the promotion's problems. Now, I get what you're saying, and on some level I even agree with you, but maybe this is a better way to put it: If say, Chris The Babykiller can go in for just being this overwhelmingly fantastic wrestler who couldn't talk or draw, shouldn't someone like Rude be able to go in for being an overwhelmingly fantastic heel (and a guy who figured out how to have a great match with the Ultimate Warrior without a Pat Patterson main event style layout, which is like whoa) who wasn't a great draw? More like other subjective criteria other than just straight up in-ring ability or "historical impact." There's only one real objective measure in drawing (title reigns shouldn't really count except as a guide to pushes in different areas), and we already have some subjective ones in place, so why not more? In addition to in-ring and impact, why not the top level promo guys, heels, and faces? Oh, and going by your post, shouldn't someone who had a year as best in the world be a strong candidate? Is there anyone who's been best in the world for a decent stretch until the business changes of the last decade who's not a legit HOF candidate? Hennig has similarities, but the run that puts him there was also only about 2.5 years long. At least Rude or even Jake had decade-long runs as their memorable characters. And Edge has had 3 years as a main eventer, at least 1/3 of which was spent on the shelf.

If Edge is a strong candidate then anyone with a decent length main event tenure and some good matches is a headliner. During one of a zillion Angle HOF debates, Alvarez argued that Angle having several years as a top guy in the current climate is a big deal, which doesn't make much sense, especially since he had barely 4 years as a headliner when he was voted in, and, well, look at how stale the main event scene is now on Raw and has been at other times. It has nothing to do with how much anyone draws. Nobody is a singular house show draw other than Rey at times. In the same WON as the Edge deal above, Meltzer talks about how WWE PPVs based around concepts draw better than who's feuding with who over what. They can't have it both ways. Dave discussing the impact of Saito, Hamada, and Konnan in different countries without mentioning the regional voting issues was strange. If Konnan is classified among the "Mexican" candidates, why should his US stint even matter? If Kendo Nagasaki was a huge star in the UK and is classified as a UK guy, then who cares if he wasn't a big success in North America during a brief stint (by the way, did he work anywhere in North America besides Stampede?) I thought it was really disingenuous to not mention the Brody cover-up as a weakness for Colon given how it seems to affect voters. He says that a weakness for Big Daddy is that he was never in demand outside of the UK. Well, who was? Stu Hart was pretty much the only promoter who kept up with the UK scene, and the fact that Dave is so admittedly uninformed about UK (well, European in general) wrestling given his knowledge of much of the rest of the world solidifies that point. Several of the few British stars in the US (Robinson, Bulldogs, Geoff Portz) came through Stampede, a minor territory that also used a bunch of Brits who didn't work in any other NA territories. Even among tape trading hardcore fans, there wasn't much interest until the DVDVR board and some indy wrestlers who read it started going nuts over the stuff (and given the popularity of Sayama, Davey Boy, and Dynamite amongst the older traders, it's kind of shocking that this stuff wasn't widely pimped decades ago), and that was in the early aughts. Then the TWC shows came along and interest grew. Not sure what he meant here when talking about Koloff: Was Murdoch's rep really for having lots of bad matches if he was in a bad mood? That really seems like a Meltzer creation or a misinterpretation of his tendency to goof off. Would someone like Bill Watts have really used him so much if he was such an awful worker when "moody"? Dave says that Rocco wasn't a great draw but I'm not sure if there are any records to back that up. Someone at RIM mentioned that when he headlined regular at Kings Hall at Belle Vue that he was remembered as a strong draw. Someone like Rick Rude makes me think we should re-think how we look at the HOF to some degree. He's not a great "paper" candidate as far as drawing or title reigns, but he was an incredibly talented heel with super charisma who could work his ass off and talk well. He's one of the most well-remembered wrestlers of his generation who has the weird not a top guy but still in the mainstream consciousness trait of someone like Jake Roberts (One could probably argue that he earned it more than Roberts who, while a great performer before 1993, probably got that way more from the "Jake the Snake" name being coupled with him actually having a snake in the WWF). The more I think about it, the more I think "Yeah, y'know what? He's a Hall of Famer." Sometimes, maybe you do have to make picks based on fuzzy feelings as opposed to statistics or groupthink.