Bix

And I 100% quarantee that isn't the case. Take a step back, Bix. If I voted for Sasaki and also voted for the MX and also voted for Bill Miller, do you really think Dave would only count my Bill Miller vote? Or just Sasaki vote? And that he would count my ballot against just one region? If a ballot only counts in one region, 620+ people voted: 200 US 99 Old Time 98 Japan 98 Non-Wrestler 75 Lucha 54 Euro Do you think there's even a 1% chance of that? 250+ is an insane number. But I don't think he's more than double that. John I'm not disagreeing with you. I was making sure you understood what Dave is claiming since your reply wasn't clear. I don't think Dave has any reason to lie, so he must be misunderstanding the other posts, even if they were pretty easy to understand, right?

Dave is saying that's not the case:

If one was to read this cold, without having discussed the issue before: The first part of it implies that the totality of voters FROM the region where the candidate was a star are the whole, >=3/5 of which are required to get voted it, but the second part implies that if you're familiar with candidates and want to vote for them, it's fine, but if you don't vote for them solely because you're not familiar with them, you shouldn't worry because the ballots are spread out enough that a substantial enough portion of the electorate is familiar with each candidate. Reading it all together, that leads to the conclusion we had all reached: That voting for a wrestler in X region makes you a voter in X region. As far the "prime before 30 years ago" candidates, I can't figure out if younger voters should be voting for them. If a yes counts and a no doesn't, wouldn't that mean a candidate could get over 100% support? Was he using the "prime before 30 years ago" system for the different regions and we never realized it (and again, does this mean that someone can get over 100% support)? Also, if the ballots are assigned the way Dave says they are, that means that he's picked 75 Lucha experts, which sounds high. Also, unless I messed up the math, 54.1666667 people voted on European candidates, which is impossible, indicating Dave messed up the calculations, and anything close to it seems high for hand-picked experts in European wrestling.

That was an interesting way to tell him to go piss off... Keith should ask him to C&P it if he thinks we're so poorly informed (Or maybe JDW could post it here). Does he understand that none of the voters who discuss the HOF online seem to think that how he just outlined it is how it works and THAT'S why we had these misconceptions? In all of the WC discussions, the voters have understood that voting for a wrestler in X region makes you a voter in that region. Kurt Brown has obviously come to the same conclusion based on what he said during the podcasts we did. The voters obviously have the cover letter with the rules. Quick search at WC for "region" in the WON forum yielded: From JDW in 2003: From JDW in 2007:

Might as well keep a legible log of this:

Now I'm really confused. Everything that's ever been written on the regional process by the voters explained it as them understanding that region was set by who was voted for. I'm not sure if Dave ever said anything about it before, but given the lack of limits on who can be voted for and how the voters understood it, it was reasonable to guess that it was the truth. If he was saying that it was set up like the older candidates are now (the new system that got Bill Miller in this year) then it would still be a surprise but it would make sense relative to how he positioned the change in the system this year. Wasn't it JDW who mentioned a few years ago in a WC thread (maybe with Dave) that voters should be designated as eligible to vote only in categories where they have a reasonable grasp of the history only for some people to say it was a bad idea because it would be too hard for Dave to manage? I'm interested in seeing what he says next.

The previous NWA belt and the one that has been replicated for the NWA title since '94, the "domed globe" belt.

According to IT'S 2009 AND YOU'RE NOT A NIGERIAN PORN SITE, GET RID OF THE FUCKING SPYWARE, Highspots will be listing Flair's NWA belt on eBay on Monday.

Wahlers!

Was there another thread where the backstage fight over Eddy selling and/or being blown up got discussed? I remember that getting brought up specifically with Dave elaborating and Tom making the stationary bike crack.

No way ? Oh man, that's pure gold. There was a WC thread where TomK sort of argued with Dave about this but I'm having trouble finding it. Maybe Tom will remember it better (and/or could find it) but I think the gist was Dave saying that he was really writing about Eddy's lack of cardio (and geez, that THAT sounds really bad almost 4 years after his heart exploded) slowing down the match to a crawl because he was blown up while putting over how fit Angle was (including something like "Lots of guys have to slow down for Eddy, nobody has to slow down for Angle"). This led to a Tom response along the lines of "What does how you do on a stationary bike have to do with being a good wrestler? If Angle's so fit, why is he stuck in 3 minute Angle Challenge squashes?"

He means the Raw title in either form since people were arguing that the SD title in either form was essentially the old IC title. That said, Edge's Raw title reigns combined were about as long as CM Punk's one reign on Raw, so yeah...

WWF A-shows and B-shows were separate tours, too. Also: "When healthy." It's closer to half of the alleged 4 years as top heel on his show taking injuries and de-pushes into account.

When was Edge the top heel in WWE? He's the secondary heel most of the time.

Seriously, how can he not realize that # of title reigns and PPVs headlined is a totally different ballgame now? Edge's world title reigns add up to a year holding them. He ignores that Rude also had a 13 month long secondary title run in WCW, followed by a 6 month run with what was easily the closest equivalent to the Smackdown title pre-WWE brand extension in the WCW International World Heavyweight Title. Add that to his almost 5 month reign as IC champ and you double Edge's time as a world champion, which was almost all as SD champ. Oh, and all that on top of the fact that Rude was the real top heel from the moment he beat Sting for the US Title due to Luger being unable to wrestle because of a ridiculous contractual oversight until Vader won the WCW World Title, plus was the top heel fighting for the proto Smackdown title (the NWA title at that point) for the first few months of its existence, nevermind the fact that I thought that the "Rick Rude wasn't a great worker until he he joined the Dangerous Alliance" meme or anything close to it was dead by now. And I doubt Rude would be 195 lbs. He'd still have HGH and Dave still seems to think that the top guys are on steroids, too, so...yeah, I don't even know. The fact that he seems like he's being deliberately obtuse is what makes it really frustrating. As a sidenote, I get that New Japan wanted the NWA title back, but WCW having two world titles after Muta dropped the belt is really a baffling bit of underrated stupidity that's never really brought up.

Dan Wahlers yaaay.

Kenyon's pretty...eccentric, to say the least, though. Yohe, too.

By the way does anyone here have the "I can't comment on the death of WCW because I wasn't watching wrestling yet" thing that Dan Wahlers wrote that I was recently alerted to the existence of? THIS MAN HAS A HOF BALLOT. I wonder if he's a "reporter" or a "historian."

He also said that Michaels shoot pinned Bret.

Whoops. Fixed.

Full show report w/ pictures.

Loser Leaves Town Podcast 9/21/09 - Live at Lucha Va Voom w/ T.J. Perkins and Cassandro! Recorded last night at Lucha Va Voom's successful New York debut, it's the Loser Leaves Town Podcast. First I'm joined by T.J. Perkins (AKA Pinoy Boy/Puma/Cobra II, currently El Bombero in Lucha Va Voom) to discuss his travels around the world as a 25 year-old who's a 10 year veteran. Lots of great stuff about going to New Japan and the LA Dojo including wrestling in the Tokyo Dome, the MMA training that led to him actually having fights, becoming Cobra II while being tempted with promises of maybe eventually being Tiger Mask V, and much more. After that is Cassandro, the top exotico in wrestling today. A 21 year veteran, he talks about his pre-wrestling career as a medical assistant, being trained by Rey Misterio Sr. in the class that included the original Psicosis/Nicho and a very young Rey Mysterio (Jr.), wrestling in Juarez and El Paso, being a gay man in the wrestling business in Mexico, how Antonio Peña helped him and others, his current travels around the world (including wrestling El Hijo del Santo at the Louvre Museum in Paris, France!), and more. ------------------- More later when I do my writeup, but it was a tremendously fun show with 2 terrifying balcony dives in the main event.

The Spoiler wasn't in the WWF yet in 3/84, so who knows... I've heard rumblings about obscure WWF Middle Eastern tours from this period but never heard any details before.