khawk20

Grab the Gagne-Heenan weasel suit saga from 1980. Fun stuff. Gagne-Brunzell vs. Santana-Martel (8/29 rematch) is another one worth checking out, IMO. Make sure the Rose-Somers vs. Rockers bloodbath is one of the bouts from those teams you show, if any.

AWA 1984. More change in one year in the AWA than had probably ever happened before. Title changes, the Blackwell face turn, Heenan and Jesse leaving for good, the Road Warriors come in, and so much more.

Very cool, thanks for posting. Oh, but to spend a day wandering around in there...

The Von Erich matches were suggested. From my perspective, Ric was too much the Von Erich's bitches for me (and given that it was Ric flair, that's saying something) to call it one of his best feuds. The Steamboat matches feud 89 is tops for me. The Funk feud would be second. I'm having a hard time picking number three as there are several feuds that have something about them that stick out...Garvin and Lex are probably the frontrunners.

The cover date as you said is Jan 1988. that means the mag was done about 6 weeks before the date on the ratings, which is probably a good month to two months before the 6 weeks... so probably from October 87 or so. He wouldn't have had a pic like that done if he was already in the WWF...Apter mags had no access to the WWF guys then. So, it was definitely a pic drawn from their archives. I'd guess UWF at the same shoot they did the PWI Cup or whatever it was called picture with everyone grabbing at the trophy. So it's an older pic, probably UWF era, on that cover. Not that it helps, just sayin'.

Is it an alternative structure if the Russians are the only ones that use it, though? I'd think it would be more of a "distinct structure" if that is the case.

What Coliseum Video did this appear on? I'm not sure I've ever seen it.

"Unfavourable" is one way to look at it, but only if you're hyper-sensitive to WWF criticism. Besides, isn't the concept of "The Microscope" to examine and compare someone's work throughout his career? So yeah, if AWA Curt ends up being considered the more favourable era in which to watch his matches, so be it. What I'm getting from comments here is that he *could* have done a lot more during his WWF time, and beyond. He didn't because he didn't have to in order to be successful in the WWF. Is that a criticism? Perhaps, but it really doesn't detract from the concept that Mr Perfect was a successful, memorable character.

I'm not sure that he's saying Curt was weak in the AWA so much as he's saying he had so much more he could have brought with him to the WWF. I could be wrong, though. One thing about Curt--he's as good an example as you can find of how a wrestler was built up over time, back in the day. From an initial rub being the son of Larry "the Ax", with a few wins against lower-mid level competition and some competitive matchups in the AWA, through his early WWF run as a competitive job-guy, to some time honing his skills as a top-end competitior in Portland, then back to the AWA as a mid-level competitor winning some and losing some, forward though a stint as a competitive weak link doing some work with his Dad in higher-level tag matches, and then a push as a higher-level singles and tag worker, over to his establishment as a main-event talent, to his transition to full-time heel as AWA Champion. We're talking a slow build from 1981 thorough 1988, working steadily upward until there was literally nothing left to do in the AWA, and leaving the area to go to Vince as a guy that learned everything he needed to know to be successful anywhere he went. His ascension to the top also allowed his body time to grow (with and without help), so that, even as a smaller-framed wrestler, he was able to avoid being stigmatized as "too small" to compete in a big-man area. Watching Curt grow through the 80's never gave me the impression he wasn't working up to his potential, he gave me the impression that he was a great example of natural growth within the business. Finding a comfort zone, in his case, was his payoff to the growth he worked at in the 80's.

Were Dusty's short title runs because he was incapable of carrying a long run or because a lot of his time was tied up booking and promoting? My take: First run (June 21 - 26, 1979) was a simple bit to pop Florida, and to set up a huge feud with Terry Funk, who cost Dusty the title by breaking his arm before their second rematch. Second run (June 21(?) 1981 - September 17, 1981) allowed for Flair to rematch with Race to help set up the eventual 7th title win, if they wanted to go that way (no idea if they had that thought out two years in advance), plus made for more compelling Race-Flair rematches in the wake of Flairs title win. It was very similar to what the AWA did with the Bockwinkel-to-Jumbo-to-Martel title changes in 1984. He was simply a transitional champion, and Dusty was enough of a name that he could draw for a few months, at least, while travelling around with the belt. Third Run (Summer of 1986? two weeks, exact dates escape me) was more the Bash tour getting recognition as a "major event" by having the title change hands on the tour once. Dusty was a safe choice to have a run of short title wins like that because he was over and because Dusty in the role of "people's champion" was enhanced in each case by acheiving the dream, only to have it snatched away pretty quickly, getting him a sympathetic rub from the fans as a guy who could do it, but always got jobbed out of it when he did. That's how I've always seen those title changes. Dusty as NWA Champion over a long period never seemed in the cards to me, and all his title wins sort of caught me by surprise, to be honest. Dusty as WWWF Champion would have worked for a bit as he certainly seemed over in the area in the appearances he made in the late 70's and early 80's. I don't know how well it would have worked over a longer haul, or even as a lose-it-one-month, win-it-again-the-next-month sort of titleholder. Dusty was always better chasing, IMO.

Iron Sheik (79 and 83) Ivan Koloff (78 and 83) Peter Maivia (well, he was a foreigner, and he was evil at the time.... ) each of the Samoans Iron Mike Sharpe (damn Canadians! ) Spiros Arion Killer Khan there are probably more, but yeah, he wasn't wrestling in the mold of Slaughter or anything...

Same here. I suspect it's the same everywhere.

Maybe one or two of those Best Chef cooking shows, but probably not them either.

Mine too. I know what's going on by default but I can't stand it, I think now that you mention it because of the lack of blowoffs, so to speak. I don't discuss wrestling with people because nobody I know is interested in it here at all, even at a rudimentary, Raw-on-Monday perspective of watching. I occasionally run into someone that I haven't seen in years that remembers I was a wrestling fan, and have no trouble discussing the good old days with them. People fondly remember the Hogan era in the 80's and the NWO era, strangely enough, which makes me think that if they could do something as compelling these days that could get the attention of "everyone", it could get casual fans involved again. Of course, these days, most of those folks are into reality tv, which makes the potential audience for a big mainstream wrestling comeback less than when it had the stage itself, so to speak.

Everyone needs to see Sgt. Al Tomko at least once in their lifetime.

So what you're saying is that a clearer definition of where the bar of "serious" fan has to be set, in order to make the canon.

He did disputed jobs to Tony Atlas in the WWF (really, REALLY fast 3 counts). After that, probably none until The Main Event. I think if Hogan were to ever have considered leaving the business it would have been before his WWF run, and probably something, if honestly considered, that would have been a reaction to a 20 dollar pay for a semi-main or a main event shot in a small southern territory or after an event in a poorly attended high-school gym setting. I don't doubt he had the "leaving the business" chat with someone, but I suspect he had it once, the person he told it to told another worker, and they told two more, and so on, and some/all of the secondary recipients of the story have adopted it as "Hogan told that to me and I convinced him not to leave the business", making themselves the primary character with Hogan. Who "Patient Zero" is, however, would be very difficult to figure out at this point, I would guess.

I'd suggest the Greg Gagne vs. Bobby Heenan Weasel Suit match from Summer 1980 in the AWA, including the angles leading up to it. I offer this one because someone that begins exploring the AWA will have several questions about the promotion answered in ways that they have probably heard would be answered otherwise. As those questions usually revolve around whether or not Greg Gagne could ever have been over (and how shitty he always was), or if Heenan was any good before he went to the WWF, or how AWA TV never ran any good angles, this match goes a long way towards dispelling those pre-conceptions: a) It's Heenan at his best, and illustrates how hated he was in a non-comical vein in the area. It is also a very good representation of Heenan's abilities as an actual wrestler. b ) It shows Greg Gagne was, at one point of his career, exceptionally over with the fans and fit in fine in the pre-muscleman era of wrestling. It helps dispel the myth that Greg Gagne was at the level of other sons in wrestling like Mike Von Erich or George Gulas, as opposed to being a solid worker in his own right that could also work on the mic pretty well. c) The build and match are a microcosm of how the AWA, in it's heyday, could build matches and then execute them to perfection. My thought is that once you get your feet wet with this angle and match, you will move forward in an examination of other AWA matches and angles in the 80's with more than a passing curiosity. Plus, as it's one of the earliest things available from the 1980's out there on tape, anyone wanting to watch AWA matches and angles progressively has probably the best starting point currently available.

Is it possible that the reverse is true...that Thesz found out about Harley getting reign 7 and decided to back the Southwest tournament out of spite (or something similar)? Race getting reign 7 seemed like a no-brainer to me back then, and I was a teenager. I doubt Lou would have had much trouble finding out what the plan swere moving forward from someone that knew them.

JuI smell a "If Not Brett Wayne, then Who?" topic coming in the near future...

I've heard it suggested many times that Bock was considered for the title. I am skeptical that he was ever outright offered it and turned it down. It's more likely that a promoter of note/player in the NWA mentioned to him that he might be someone of interest and he let them know the feeling wasn't mutual. AWA money was good and travel was lighter. Plus Bock was able to book himself out to other offices (Calgary, Memphis, Houston, et.) whereas in the NWA he would have been at the whim of the NWA promoters, with the NWA president taking a percentage of the cut as his pimp. Bock has said in shoots and interviews that it was suggested to him that he could have been in the running to get the title, but I always got the impression that it was more of a late 70's thing, as opposed to 1982. Bock thought about it and was interested in the idea but, as you noted, he figured out how much the NWA Champ made and how much he worked, and compared it to how much he was getting from Gagne and how much he had to work in the AWA, and quickly decided that it was not worth it from a financial standpoint, or a quality of life standpoint. Plus, as also noted above, he could fill holes with individual shots in other areas when he wanted to do so, on his own schedule. I've always heard that it would have happened before 1982, though.

Youngblood would have had zero credibility as a singles heel, no matter how they built it.

Well, what if Brody goes into WCCW or Portland or the other smaller NWA areas and does Double-DQ types of matches with either the best face or biggest heel available, and gets his "cleaner" wins over Crockett-only guys, in Crockett territory? I know it's a wild stab at this (I can't think of anyone outside of Race to carry the spot, off the top of my head, that makes as much or more sense than Harley did), but Brody might also be the only guy that had a "national" enough face to be a reasonable draw outside of Crockett. I can only imagine how much he would have held up Crockett for to show up and lose to Flair at Starrcade cleanly, however...especially with the territory wars brewing, knowing even if he was blackballed to any degree, someone would probably have picked him up pretty fast once Vince got his ball really rolling (I'm looking at you, Verne Gagne, lol).