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I bet there are a lot of people going batshit over Davey being worker of the year. I think Dana is still the promoter of the year. The Fox move was a good thing relative to the Spike deal. I think we bounced around some thoughts that it might not be a great deal long term due to the length of the deal, and how the landscape is evolving out there. For long term $$$, UFC probably needs to evolve away from PPV and into being "television product" like the NFL/NBA/College Football/MLB, and this deal locks them to Fox for a long time while capping the growth of that "tv product" $$$. Their options... I'm not entirely sure. They could have gone a "safe" route of a 1-2 deal with Spike and wait for the landscape to settle just a bit: * SEC renegotiation / creation of SEC Network * full roll out of NBC Sports Channel * bombing of NBC Sports Channel's current product (i.e. NHL as the anchor) * new NBA deals * launch of Lakers channel (2012-2013) * Angles tv deal (now done) / Dodgers tv deal (pending) There are other speculative things, such as continuing college movement along with how hard Time Warner pushes into sports (so far it's been fairly large, such as the Lakers). Not it's possible that you play those wrong and end up with the major players having spent their money with none left over for UFC. That, at the moment, seems unlikely. NBC is one of the major wild cards here since their primetime is in horrid shape, and their sports properties are terrible other than Sunday Night Football. They've been almost entirely blocked out of College Sports (ND is a property of declining value), which is brutal when trying to fill up the NBC Sports Channel. One could see them tossing money at the Big 10 when their ESPN contract runs up, especially if they can being the Big 10 and ND *together*. But you get the sense that NBC is going to look around, see they have next to nothing, and start looking for things to anchor NBC Sports Channel other than... well.. the ratings loser that is the NHL. I think that is the possible mistake that Zuffa made: not waiting for just the right moment to use NBC's woes to make themselves one of the anchor properties for NBC. Not just on NBC Sports, but on NBC itself with that barren primetime lineup. Given the amount of content that UFC produces (TUF, Fight Nights, TUF Finales, PPV, etc), UFC brings a lot to the table for a channel that's been frozen out of the big sports properties other than the NFL on Sunday night. But for "right now", it's an improvement over Spike. There are declines, but they're not unreasonable, and likely are less due to "promoter" than injuries and economy. John

Flair challenged Hash for the IWGP. Horrible match... poor Hash. John

Dana is the promoter of the year. John

Bearcat Wright was the #1 wrestler in the second largest city in the country in a run that Yohe has often said was right up there as the hottests in LA History. It ended up being short not because Wright wasn't drawing but because the promotion was kinda dumb, and the promotion took a hit when he left. That also brought to an end what was probably LA's best sustained period, from Blassie winning the title in mid-1961 through Destroyer's first run and through Bearcat's. Not exactly saying Bearcat > JYD In Mid-South, since it wasn't sustained. But I'm thinking that if you dropped Early 80s Bill Watts in Los Angeles in the second half of 1963, he probably would have seen the goldmine in Bearcat and gotten big run from him. The business wasn't exactly kind to black wrestlers. :/ John

Would love to here the story on why he felt the need to trash her. In response to her trashing him... or is this more worked-shoot bullshit? John

Looking at a handheld list, there doesn't seem to be anything in 1989 or 1990. The two matches involving the teams that seem to be available are the 1/15/90 and 2/19/90 matches at MSG. WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 15, 1990 (11,500) Televised on the MSG Network - featured Gorilla Monsoon & Hillbilly Jim on commentary: The Powers of Pain defeated Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty at 9:59 when the Barbarian pinned Michaels with an elbow drop (SuperTape 2) WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 19, 1990 (13,800) Televised on the MSG Network - featured Gorilla Monsoon, Lord Alfred Hayes, & Hillbilly Jim on commentary: Jim Duggan, Shawn Michaels, & Marty Jannetty defeated Mr. Fuji & the Powers of Pain at 16:38 when Jannetty pinned Fuji after Duggan used his 2X4 as a weapon Gotta think the Rockers and Powers were working most of that second match given the length. John

That is indeed one of Gorilla's biggest flaws. Sometimes he just wasn't paying any damn attention, and would stubbornly insist that a guy got disqualified long after Fink said it was a countout, or whatever. Yeah, and like I pointed out above, he had easy outs to cop to being wrong. It actually connects with the fans listening, and even the storyline. I gave an example above: "A good announcer would have pointed out that now that he thought about it, the ref was right to not award the match as no holds are barred, and while it could normally get Muraco DQ'd, it doesn't happen tonight. And weave into the storyline that it was Backlund who wanted this match, and it's the risk that he took." That would come across well. John

If a guy can be THAT good while half-assing it, then he's the best announcer of all-time in any sports. I'm guessing you haven't listened to a lot of sports over the years. Jesse isn't remotely close to the best. John

Sid had (spotty) charisma and look. Couldn't work a fucking lick. John Imagine if he DIDN'T have charisma though. He would have been the Warlord. And still couldn't work a fucking lick. John

*scratches head* Didn't Vince have his Dynamite Kid? 04/07/86 The British Bulldogs over The Dream Team for the WWF Tag Titles 01/26/87 The Hart Foundation over The British Bulldogs for the WWF Tag When I think back on the era, they *felt* like the hardest pushed tag team of the era at their peak. I know Demo and the Harts were around longer, and Vince invested a lot into Demo as his Faux Road Warriors. But there really was a sense in 1986 that the Bulldogs were the WWF's "team" and there wasn't any end in sight for how long they would dominate that division. Koko was pushed, but never pushed in the WWF remotely to that level. Dynamite got in for work, impact and influence. One certainly can debate whether the 1980's and 1990's judgement of his work, impact and influence was correct... but it's why he's in. Davey never really sustained the level of esteem in work/impact/influence that DK had. I don't see how great managers shouldn't go in. I also don't see how great announcers shouldn't go in. You're comment reads like: "If the announcers that I like don't go in, then NO announcers should do in." Which is... kind of a waste. I think Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker are better than a number of 2B's in the HOF. I think they, over the course of their careers, are better than some recent non-2B who went in, such as Jim Rice and Andre Dawson. Is it worthwhile to jump up and down that Grich and Lou aren't in and thus no one should go in? Not really. John

Sid had (spotty) charisma and look. Couldn't work a fucking lick. John

Tell us what you really think, Kevin. John

Looking back at what I wrote about the two 1983 MSG matches between Don & Bob, here's what I said about the various announcers. Looks like Vince & Gorilla at the table at the Feb match, with Kal doing backstage. Gorilla solo in March. 02/18/83 Bob Backlund vs Don Muraco Seemed to touch on three things that I pretty consistently do with WWF matches from the era: * Vince = really great in small little ways * Kal = Campy Greatness * Gorilla = ass 03/20/83 Bob Backlund vs Don Muraco Yeah... that about Gorilla isn't uncommon, and really is annoying. Earlier in the walk through of the match I pointed out that Fink was very clear in the pre-match that it was a TDM, so Gorilla can't fall back on the excuse that it wasn't announced. He just was being Gorilla here. I've heard him in another solo booth earlier in the decade in MSG... which I could remember what it was, but seem to recall it was on one of Frank's Round Robin or Backlund & More tapes. Anyway, Gorilla goes off riffing about himself rather than the match, undercuts the wrestlers... just is a general prick in it. I wish I could remember the specific match, because it would make seeking out that entire MSG card interesting just to see how he was from start to finish, dealing with the curtain jerkers and midcard filler. I'll admit that Dick Graham & Kal Rudman in Philly *weren't* good. Despite all the wrestling matches they called over the years, they weren't exactly "inside wrestling" guys who knew the art of work and storytelling the wrestlers were up to, and could craft their announcing to be insynch with it. But they *tried*, they sure as hell were enthusiastic about it, they had a good deal of fun with it, and seemed to enjoy playing along. They are massively campy fun at their best, and at their worst are so-bad-they're-good to a degree. Once one gets past the fact that they're "not good" relative to the greatness of Lance or the solid quality of Ross At His Best and accept that they're a pair goofy... they're actually fun when you pick up on their goofiness. "He hit him THERE!!!!" -Kal Rudman I mean... that's just great shit. John

Wiki entry for quick overview: Stormfront (website) An SPLC article from last decade that is of more length (spans 3 pages): Hate Website Sees Rapid Growth John

My mom and I were catching up on TUF while I've been down there the last two weekends (my dad had hip replacement)... so we finally got around to starting Season 11. The Kyle Noke vs Warren Thompson "fight in" match was a monsterous juice job. Boring ass fight, they saved the juice for fairly late... but my lord did Thompson hit a whopper: That doesn't even do justice to it. The way the episode was cut doesn't as well, as they didn't show the whole thing (have to cram a lot of fights into first episode). But the whole thing was on the DVD, alsong with the other fight in matches. Beyond Hase-Muta... that puppy was Mass Transit level. Not as all as compelling as Edwin Dewees vs Gideon Ray from TUF Season 4, where Dewees not only fights through the blood but eventually takes it to the 3rd and wins that round to take the fight. I haven't seen the Abe Wagner vs John Madsen from Season 10 which is rather legendary for not only the blood but how monsterous the cut was in size and depth. My mom really doesn't like slow, boring heavyweights, so we've twice skipped that DVD set to first watch GSP-Koscheck and now Tito-Chuck. Anyway... a metric ton of juice in this one. John

Obama is The Rock. John

My recollection is similar to Bix: The Legends Contract is chump change. It could be decent money of they use you for anything, but most of the guys on it aren't being used for much. Ponder Ric Flair. The WWE was willing to set him up with a good income in his retirement after the Shawn Match. It wasn't enough for Ric. While I'll grant Ric's expensive lifestyle, we need to grant as well that Ric was on good terms with the WWE at the time, beloved by at least one major power player in the family, and the intent of the offer was to "take care of Ric" rather than toss him 10K. It was a sizeable offer that probably a lot of ROH guys would kill each other for. Ric thought he could make more money elsewhere. Which in a sense was true: he hooked up with Hogan & Eric to suck TNA dry. Ric was a recent "star" of the WWE, and someone who still had promotional value to them. The majority of folks on Legends contracts don't have a ton of major value to the WWE. It's just a way to lock them up for minimal costs. John

So how much of the card was pro wrestling and how much of it was MMA/MA? John

I wonder how much they were "saving" themselves for the PPV a couple of nights later... not wanting to get hurt or take too much in terms of risks. Don't recall if Bret talked about it in his book? John

Hillbilly was about as bad as one would expect. Standard cliches. Pops for at least *trying* to be a color commentator while in the booth rather than just fucking off, but he wasn't good. John

So what pro wrestling were Kogan & Schiavello calling? John

When in the match was that? The crowd was heated when it picked up on TV (about 8 or so minutes into the 30:00 draw), Baba tagged in about five seconds after the JIP, and hit a swinging neckbreaker and a pile driver that the fans enjoyed before tagging back out to Hansen. All within a minute. Stan hit a cool dropkick, then stretched Kobashi out when Kenta blocked a power bomb attempt... and then Stan tagged Baba in for the Big Boot and the Russian Leg Sweep (Baba's finisher), that Misawa had to save Kobashi from getting pinned with. A pair of excellent Hansen backdrops, then Hansen runs into Kobashi's boot before letting a bit of hubris get to him: should have tagged out but went to the top like a spunky dumb kid would (Spunky Kobashi was a great character). The whole opening (in JIP) Kobashi In Peril sequence is quality stuff, right down to Kobashi's counter to avoid the Lariat, and Misawa waking up to Elbow the fucking out of Baba (which Baba sells great by just crumples). Even better? It's another false comeback as Kobashi gets prideful again and tries to take it to Stan, only to get clocked again. Sure enough it's Misawa and the Trusty Elbows that finally turns things around, and Kobashi finally sees the light to tagged out and let his senior got to work. The first 6:30 of the JIP are really good stuff, and it's not like what follows doesn't top it. I suspect if one tried to block out a match like this between the Fantastics and the Midnight Express with all their hot moves and signature spots subbed in for what these four guys do, we'd probably realize: * the Fans & MX didn't have as much Cool Stuff * the Fans & MX probably didn't do as much Stuff I mean... just in the first few minutes of the JIP, we have *Baba* using the Rolling Neckbreaker, a pile driver, the Big Boot and the Russian Leg Sweep. Set aside our "Moves!" aversion and we see that these are things Baba has used for decades by that point and are among his signature spots with His Fans similar to Lawler "Pulling Down The Strap" or "Using The Illegal Pile Driver" are to His Fans and... well, he (and the rest of them) are packing a lot of shit into the 22 or so minutes of TV that we've got, while also working out some good All Japan peril segments where folks could be in trouble of losing. Okay... it's 1993 All Japan and I'm rambling again. John

We always take crap much too seriously. Still do. Folks who say that we shouldn't take crap too seriously are usually the folks who take crap too seriously and are upsets about people disagreeing with the crap they take too seriously. John

I think that's a good way to put it. John